Bedlam Veil exploit?

Rittings · March 12

First time doing Bedlam Veil since I took an hiatus and hadn’t done it. Resrached the secrets and mechs before I jumped into tanking it in vet…

Only to find was pulled into final boss straight after the second boss using some exploit… missed all the puzzles and chance of speed/nd run since the person we picked up as a random was the one that did the exploit and skipping.

Is this a known exploit? I couldn’t repeat it as I was binding my gear from second boss when I found myself pulled in, and when my wife and I checked the dungeon at the end we saw all the adds that had been skipped…

Renato90085 · March 12

yes, have a place jump can skip last trash
but i heard this is fixed in U45

Rittings · March 12

Renato90085 wrote: »

yes, have a place jump can skip last trash
but i heard this is fixed in U45

I sure hope so. I enjoy doing dungeons… but now been in 3 different groups, and all have annoyingly skipped and exploited past the final add phases.

It’s like the waterfall jumpers in Fungal….

All that the joining encounter has achieved is enabling these people to force the entire group into the skip. Vote to kick is too later by the point it’s happened.

BXR_Lonestar · March 12

You will be thankful for it when you are down to just farming BV for the weapons. When you have done the dungeon that much, you just want to skip to the end and get your drop and go. Kind of like when Fungle Grotto 1 comes up.

Soarora · March 12

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

You will be thankful for it when you are down to just farming BV for the weapons. When you have done the dungeon that much, you just want to skip to the end and get your drop and go. Kind of like when Fungle Grotto 1 comes up.

I have all or almost all the gear there and did the mask farm and I never liked the skip. It’s not fg1 rerouting your path, it’s an exploit.

Orbital78 · March 12

I think it just bypassed 3 trash packs, a decent team those don't take long. If the group dps is 50k or something, ya. You can tell early on if you want to drop group by the first few packs and for sure by the first boss. I discovered it from Stream team, and it was basically meta by the time U45 was rolling around.

tomofhyrule · March 12

That's not an exploit, it's just a natural result of the "Joining Encounter in Progress" feature.

If you're going for an achievement, then yes it's possible for some speed demon to screw it for you by just rushing to the bosses and pulling it themselves. Achievements runs should have everyone on the same page, either by agreeing before someone takes off or by making the group without randoms.

See every complaint on this forum about dungeon speedrunners.

SeaGtGruff · March 12

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

You will be thankful for it when you are down to just farming BV for the weapons. When you have done the dungeon that much, you just want to skip to the end and get your drop and go. Kind of like when Fungle Grotto 1 comes up.

It's inconsiderately rude for a single player out of a group of several players (be it 4 or 12) to determine that the entire group is going to be forced to rush through a dungeon or trial and be forced to skip portions of it whether they had wanted to or not.

Given that this behavior-- which seems to me like a form of griefing, except it is griefing aimed at a group of unknown players instead of at a specific individual-- is not only allowed by ZOS but also implicitly supported by virtue of the "joining encounter in progress" change which was made some years ago, the best thing the other players in the group can do is take note of the offending individual, and in the future immediately vote-kick them from the group if they get placed into a group with them.

It is obviously a less-than-desirable "solution" to the problem, as it hinges on the rest of the group being grouped together in the future (which might happen if it's a regular "dungeon group" or "trial group") and/or being able to get everyone else in the group to vote-kick the offending individual as soon as they are placed into the group. In addition, if the offender realizes that they have been black-listed for their behavior, they could still hop onto an alternate account or change their account name to try to get around having been black-listed.

Soarora · March 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That's not an exploit, it's just a natural result of the "Joining Encounter in Progress" feature.

If you're going for an achievement, then yes it's possible for some speed demon to screw it for you by just rushing to the bosses and pulling it themselves. Achievements runs should have everyone on the same page, either by agreeing before someone takes off or by making the group without randoms.

See every complaint on this forum about dungeon speedrunners.

It’s an exploit. It’s not “have one person run ahead and trigger the boss fight”. It doesn’t even have much to do with joining encounter in progress. It’s a matter of the last boss platform’s respawn box. The exploit was you die and your corpse shows up at the last boss because the game thinks you died from falling off the platform. That’s clearly unintended behavior.

salander7 · March 12

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It's inconsiderately rude for a single player out of a group of several players (be it 4 or 12) to determine that the entire group is going to be forced to rush through a dungeon or trial and be forced to skip portions of it whether they had wanted to or not.

It's inconsiderately rude for a single player out of a group of several players (be it 4 or 12) to determine that the entire group is going to be forced to do all skippable trash and bosses through a dungeon or trial and be forced to play portions of it whether they had wanted to or not.

See what I did there? Not defending in particular Bedlam Veil skip, but it goes both ways.
If I'm with 2 guildies just speeding a FG1 pledge or nRandom and a player insists on pulling everyone to sidebosses w the join group after waterfall, they're likely getting warned first, then kicked if they persist.
And I accept to get kicked if I join people that want to do them and I pull the last boss while they don't want to skip it, at least if they tell me and I ignore it.
On either case, it's a really big stretch away from calling it griefing on the first action.

In both cases, the only possible exception is when someone knows what the rest wants or not. But most of the times, people interested in doing a sideboss feel entitled to it, and don't ask "hey, I'd like to do X, do you mind?" at the start of the dungeon. Even when they ask, they're not entitled to a yes, because maybe that other player has done 8 runs today and doesn't feel like walking through trash with low-ish dps, like the one in pugs.

And yeah, most players don't ask about skipping, because for a quest/achievement, you run a dungeon once, to farm the 45 weapons and jewelry, you need a couple more of em, so the chances of finding someone farming is higher, therefore assuming the faster strats, and that someone that needs a sideboss will ask.
Communicate, it doesn't hurt.

nadrokal · March 12

Soarora wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That's not an exploit, it's just a natural result of the "Joining Encounter in Progress" feature.

If you're going for an achievement, then yes it's possible for some speed demon to screw it for you by just rushing to the bosses and pulling it themselves. Achievements runs should have everyone on the same page, either by agreeing before someone takes off or by making the group without randoms.

See every complaint on this forum about dungeon speedrunners.

It’s an exploit. It’s not “have one person run ahead and trigger the boss fight”. It doesn’t even have much to do with joining encounter in progress. It’s a matter of the last boss platform’s respawn box. The exploit was you die and your corpse shows up at the last boss because the game thinks you died from falling off the platform. That’s clearly unintended behavior.

Completely agree it is/was an exploit. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but I have seen things like this in many games that are clearly, obviously, blatantly not intended, and someone can always justify it somehow. In another game I play, years ago they introduced a 1-boss 8 or 16 man group fight, but it was deactivated when the map was released until after the Christmas holidays.

Someone figured out how to cheese the boundaries of the game and get in; the boss was actually there, the devs just thought they had physically prevented entrance. One guy or a couple of guys ran groups through the boss, keeping the hows as secret as possible, collecting lots of in-game wealth and items... the scores or more of people paying were saying "well, gee, if they REALLY didn't want us doing this, why is the boss even there?" or "well if they really didn't want us to do this, we wouldn't be able to get in at all." Never understood that kind of mentality, myself.

SeaGtGruff · March 12

salander7 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It's inconsiderately rude for a single player out of a group of several players (be it 4 or 12) to determine that the entire group is going to be forced to rush through a dungeon or trial and be forced to skip portions of it whether they had wanted to or not.

It's inconsiderately rude for a single player out of a group of several players (be it 4 or 12) to determine that the entire group is going to be forced to do all skippable trash and bosses through a dungeon or trial and be forced to play portions of it whether they had wanted to or not.

See what I did there? Not defending in particular Bedlam Veil skip, but it goes both ways.

Yes, it does-- I never said it doesn't-- and that is why it's always best to form a full group of your own of like-minded players who are going in with the same intentions as each other. And if you're in a group, you either follow the majority's plan or you can leave the group if the majority's plan doesn't jibe with yours.

But what gets me is how some players who want to speed-run, and bypass as much as the game will let them bypass, without first communicating their intentions with the group and letting the group decide how to proceed, seem to think they're doing everyone else in the group a favor, and when called out about it they will try to justify their selfish anti-group behavior by saying things like "You'll thank me later."

I've never heard players who just want to do the quests, go slow, loot every container, kill every enemy, read everything, etc., say things like that. Have you? They might complain about speed-runners in the forums, but that isn't remotely the same as claiming that "You'll thank me later."

And by the way, exactly how is the game going to allow 1 player out of 4 or 12 force the rest of the group to kill everything and loot everything? How exactly are the rest of the players held gack from running ahead if they want to? Are you suggesting that the game leashes the members of the group together such that the group as a whole can only proceed as fast as the slowest member? Because the game doesn't work that way, so your flipping the scenario around doesn't even make any kind of sense.

Rittings · March 12

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

You will be thankful for it when you are down to just farming BV for the weapons. When you have done the dungeon that much, you just want to skip to the end and get your drop and go. Kind of like when Fungle Grotto 1 comes up.

I have almost a full sticker book for dungeons. Only 3 DLC dungeons to go… none of which has required any skipping. Often you miss the random drop from adds, or a chest or two that can seriously reduce your farm.

Plus, if people want to pull a skip exploit it would be nice if they got the agreement of all group members… some people will queue for an hour to find their dungeon experience ruined. I don’t normally mind if everyone agrees to skip a boss or side boss etc, but it’s nice to be asked.

Orbital78 · March 12

Rittings wrote: »

Plus, if people want to pull a skip exploit it would be nice if they got the agreement of all group members… some people will queue for an hour to find their dungeon experience ruined. I don’t normally mind if everyone agrees to skip a boss or side boss etc, but it’s nice to be asked.

In general that is what I did experience people would wait and figure out if people wanted to skip the few trash packs. If you're doing pugs, there are always going to be jerks. It is a mmo and this game has a lot of nice/cool people and also a lot of jerks/selfish folks. As Nefas put it, don't go into a random with expectations.