PvP player perspective on why PvP players kill friendly "questers" / PvE geared players.

Thumbless_Bot · February 26

We tend to call things toxic because we have a personal vendetta or issue with it, not because they are unhealthy for the game.

The stealth nb lurking next to the quest giver in Cropsford is not toxic. They make the game fun. They are toxic to you because they killed you three times in a row and you aren't prepared to deal with them. People want to stroll into the Nibin Valley ( or whatever it is called) in their 17k pve dps builds and not be bothered. You can't. If you could this game would suck.

If I knew farming for columbine in cyro was as mundane as farming for columbine in Deshaan it would be less enjoyable. The mere fact that you can be attacked at any time is one of the most enjoyable parts of pvp in this game.

Calastir · February 26

I use the word toxic because my word of choice is not allowed on this forum.

Renato90085 · February 26

Like trial double drop alway attract many Pve player come in too
this event it they double(tev or kda? So they enjoy pvp
But bad new it pveplayer are target now

Lozeenge · February 26

people are not toxic for playing the game as intended. entering PVP in a PVE build is just immensely silly and you are in no position to complain about dying when you have voluntarily skipped all preparations for the content you're entering. PVP builds can be found online for free.

L_Nici · February 26

Worst are the Questers who kill NPCs on flags and then complain.Of course I will kill you if you threaten to take the village, what did you expect?

Also I am of the opinion that generally you have no right to complain if you get killed in a PvP area. Yes it sucks for you, but you agreed to being killed by entering a PvP-Zone.

VampiricByNature · February 26

A pvp player camping at the quest giver all day to prevent people from getting tickets is... really not ok. I have tons of friends in this game with irl jobs who sometimes prep quests just to go turn them in quickly before a shift. Let them get their tickets and go on. Now if they try to flip a flag or attack someone... they are now fair game.

I want people to have fun in both and grow the community. For this event, I don't want people to feel like they have to buy tickets in the crown store because pvp gives them so much anxiety. I take part in pvp, pve and the trade community in varying amounts. I don't think any of us would like to be team zos in regards to forcing crown store purchases...

Another thing. I kill plenty of people in my pve gear during this event. But there are tons of people who struggle with pve and pvp rotations due to hand pain.. or stroke. Those people have fun farming and trading and they just want the collectibles. Think about *who* you might be targetting with those tactics.. yuck. I could never.

Arrow312 · February 26

Does some pve Players really think that "WE" pvpers wait in Queue for dunno hours just to run to the next Quest giver Spot and then wait there for some pve Players Just to kill them and get the 600AP?

necro_the_crafter · February 26

If, during undaunted celebration, a player would take their PvP build, lets say for example they run star venom + jerall + sloads, and try to go and solo normal fungal grotto, would theirs expirience be a represantation of general PvE expirience? wouldnt they complain that enemies in dungeons take too much time to kill, and why are tickets loked behind such a tideous task?

And I pretty much sure that first advise would be - get a group, and second - change your build for PvE.
And irony is - theese advises work either way.

Sluggy · February 26

Am I just... lucky? Or maybe unlucky? I dunno lol.

Like, I've literally never once ever had a single instance of PvP combat while doing quests for tickets since the inception of tickets for events. Never once. And it's not like I skulk around in the shadows or plan everything out to avoid it. I literally just run from the quest giver to the quest and back. Turn in and get my tickets. It's the fastest and easiest event turn-in for the entire year for me.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 26

At Vlastarus I left 2 questers alone and did not kill them while I was capturing the town. 1 minute later a few more show up and before I know it I have 5+ enemies on me. Eventually I died and this wouldn't have happened had I just killed them right away.

I will never leave questers alone ever again. It's not worth it to be nice. You run the risk of them growing in numbers and it's better to kill them before the problem becomes too great. They will betray your generosity. Just kill them.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 26

Heelie wrote: »

I can not think of a single time recently where I let a PvE player live, and that they didn't attack me as soon as they saw an opportunity to do so.

This is accurate.

coop500 · February 26

L_Nici wrote: »

Worst are the Questers who kill NPCs on flags and then complain.Of course I will kill you if you threaten to take the village, what did you expect?

Also I am of the opinion that generally you have no right to complain if you get killed in a PvP area. Yes it sucks for you, but you agreed to being killed by entering a PvP-Zone.

In some places we literally HAVE to kill them because they have insane aggro range and won't let us enter doors/talk to NPCs until we do.

Dagoth_Rac · February 26

I never kill enemy faction questers. Heck, if I could somehow bodyguard and escort and protect a dozen enemy faction questers to Capstone Cave and back, I would!

Every enemy faction player who is happily and productively questing is good for the war effort. If I kill them and they rage quit, the enemy player who takes their place from queue might be a hardcore PvPer who will be a bigger threat to both me and the elements of my faction doing actual PvP.

moo_2021 · February 26

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

And I pretty much sure that first advise would be - get a group, and second - change your build for PvE.
And irony is - theese advises work either way.

Dont join PvE groups in PvP zones.

Or if you join for bosses, keep some distance, be prepared to run and hide.

Those people don't know what they're doing and they attract attacks.

SeaGtGruff · February 26

If I'm in a town to do the quests there, rather than to capture or defend it, I have gotten to where I remove all of my armor as well as my weapon. I wear all heavy armor on my PC NA main, and mostly heavy armor (5 plus 1 medium and 1 light) on my PC EU main, so removing all of my armor just makes it easier to sneak around the guards. It also has the secondary benefit of trying to let enemy players know that I'm just there to quest, not to capture or defend the town.

A lot of the time, enemy players will kill me anyway, which is okay with me-- I just respawn back at the nearest friendly spot, ride back to the town, and try again. But it can also lead to some interesting interactions.

For example, a year or two ago I was trying to do quests in Cropsford, so I'm naked and crouching behind a building near the flag (the one where the High Elf keeps telling the Argonian to get the wine stain out of his shirt), waiting for the guard to walk far enough away so I can creep up to the quest giver and grab or turn in a quest. There are enemy players constantly grabbing and turning in quests, and others who seem to be there on guard to protect the questers. One of them comes over to me and gets right in my face, with the red all-seeing eye over his head, but doesn't kill me. Once the wandering guard has moved far enough away, I creep up, interact with the quest giver, then creep away while the stationary guards (having spotted me) fire at me and chase me off.

Last week I was questing in Vlastarus, naked and unarmed. There I don't bother creeping, because if I just ride up to the quest giver from the south side then the guards (usually) don't see me, so I can usually ride up, interact, and ride off with no trouble. There were a few enemy players there, questing, and most left me alone, but one refused to suffer my presence and attacked me, preventing me from being able to interact with the quest giver and killing me as I tried to ride away. I decided to message her(?) to let her know I was just there to quest, but either she(?) was in offline mode or I didn't get the character's name right.

When I returned and tried again, I was successful at grabbing and turning in one quest, but after I completed the next quest-- recovering the stolen heirlooms, which involved some fun punching of Gray Vipers (who says ESO doesn't have any Unarmed fighting?)-- I realized that my inventory was full and I wouldn't be able to successfully turn in the quest. So I was just standing there rummaging through my bag, thinking about running up to a Gray Viper and letting him kill me so I could bloodport back to base to sell, deconstruct, and bank my loot before riding back down to turn in the quest, when an enemy player suddenly killed me. Problem solved! I decided to try whispering again, so I told him that he was very brave to kill a naked and unarmed Redguard, as we are such fearsome warriors, and thanked him for the bloodport. A few minutes later he messages me back, and we exchanged friendly comments.

He left me alone when I returned afterward to hand in that quest, and I was able to do four of the five required quests. After turning in the final quest and realizing/remembering that the quest giver's fifth quest is a one-time quest that I'd done years ago, I ran up to the guards to let them kill me for a bloodport, and one of the enemy questers joined in to finish me off.

Later I was doing some treasure maps in Cyrodiil and my last map was smack dab in the middle of Bruma. I tried riding in, with my gear still on from having captured a resource, but got chased and killed by an enemy player. After I respawned and rode back, someone from my faction had captured Bruma and was defending it, so I helped him kill an enemy player, found the buried treasure, and rode off. Then I get a whisper from someone apologizing if I'd been there to quest. I was confused because I thought it was the player I'd just killed, so I said I was there for a treasure map and I apologized for killing him. But apparently it was the player who'd killed me when I'd been trying to ride into Bruma the first time, and I think it turned out to be the same player who'd killed me when I was questing in Vlastarus.

There are many times when I'm at a town to capture or defend it, and I'll fight enemy players if they're trying to flip the flags or if they attack me first, but if they're obviously just questing then I try to leave them alone. On the other hand, if at least one enemy player is being aggressive, it's easy to get battle-raged and attack everyone.

The other night I had to flip a resource back after someone had captured it, and others from my faction rode up to help the flag flip faster and get the AP. Then a lone enemy player comes running up to the flag and just stands there while we all kill her. I figure she was just doing a resource mission and wanted a bloodport back to base.

Nathanbreakfast · February 26

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

If I'm in a town to do the quests there, rather than to capture or defend it, I have gotten to where I remove all of my armor as well as my weapon. I wear all heavy armor on my PC NA main, and mostly heavy armor (5 plus 1 medium and 1 light) on my PC EU main, so removing all of my armor just makes it easier to sneak around the guards. It also has the secondary benefit of trying to let enemy players know that I'm just there to quest, not to capture or defend the town.

This makes you a traitor to your faction. The penalty for treason is death.

SilverBride · February 26

I really don't see how this is an issue.

Cyrodiil and Imperial City are war zones. They are not safe places. If a PvE player chooses to quest in these zones they assume the risk of being defeated by other players. There is no assumption that a player shouldn't be attacked just because they are questing. No player needs any reason to attack another player in these zones other than that they are there.

Sarannah · February 26

VampiricByNature wrote: »

Another thing. I kill plenty of people in my pve gear during this event. But there are tons of people who struggle with pve and pvp rotations due to hand pain.. or stroke. Those people have fun farming and trading and they just want the collectibles. Think about *who* you might be targetting with those tactics.. yuck. I could never.

Not just this, but also most players don't have time to keep up with all the game updates that change sets/skills/etc. Having to keep up-to-date with a PvP build every game update throughout the year just to PvP during a twice per year PvP event. Not many, if any, PvE player will do that or is even able to do that. (ZOS should stop balancing and should only fix broken stuff)

And then there is the people who don't like PvP, or no longer like PvP. Personally I come from a real fast-paced PvP mmo, and no longer like PvP anymore, as I have outgrown that mindset. Though I can still quite easily keep up with ESO's ok-ish paced combat, I don't like PvP. But during this event I spend my time on my PvP char(main account), and only attack those who attack me first. Most of the time I win.

The whole PvP and PvP mindset is just no longer for me.

PS: My highest PvP rank char is alliance level 18 of 50. (mostly from daily rewards lols)

Arrow312 · February 26

I often read here or in German forum These PvP Player. But how could you know that these are "real" PvP Players? I think 80% of the regular PvP Player would agree that we dont Camp at Quest Points Just to farm ppl. There are more ways to get AP and have fun around the map.

So how can you say this is a PvP Player? The alliance rang Just Shows how much time someone spent in PvP.

moo_2021 · February 26

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

If I knew farming for columbine in cyro was as mundane as farming for columbine in Deshaan it would be less enjoyable. The mere fact that you can be attacked at any time is one of the most enjoyable parts of pvp in this game.

no it's not. It's a warzone not a horror show. I don't want to keep my buffs up all the time and treat everyone like crazy serial killers.

Once when I was riding in an empty campaign, 3 guys intercepted me and dragged me down from my indrik. I almost had a heart attack and immediatedly transformed in panic. Though a few seconds later 2 were already dead and the third hid behind rock, unaware that I can see through objects as vamp. Then I stabbed him to death in rage.

It was not nice.

Thumbless_Bot · February 26

moo_2021 wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

If I knew farming for columbine in cyro was as mundane as farming for columbine in Deshaan it would be less enjoyable. The mere fact that you can be attacked at any time is one of the most enjoyable parts of pvp in this game.

no it's not. It's a warzone not a horror show. I don't want to keep my buffs up all the time and treat everyone like crazy serial killers.

Once when I was riding in an empty campaign, 3 guys intercepted me and dragged me down from my indrik. I almost had a heart attack and immediatedly transformed in panic. Though a few seconds later 2 were already dead and the third hid behind rock, unaware that I can see through objects as vamp. Then I stabbed him to death in rage.

It was not nice.

Different strokes I guess.

Well, at least you killed them. 😁

Carcamongus · February 26

I posted a screenshot in another thread of my improperly geared EP self fishing right next to a few ADs during the previous event. I left them alone and they, who could have butchered me, did the same. I've seen many questers in towns during this event and, as a general rule, civility prevailed. However, there was an occasion in which I helped kill someone who was likely a quester. I was getting to the NPC in Cropsford and three players were at it. I had no idea how that fight had started and would have felt bad not to offer what meager assistance I could. When I knew how the fight started, though, I refused to intervene: also in Cropsford, a few ADs were trying to quest and there was even an EP player repeatedly asking - in vain - for them to be left alone.

A few cases of questers attacking are bound to happen, but this event has given me plenty more examples of people being civilized in questing areas than otherwise. On the other hand, I don't see the point of ganking questers away from the frontlines - other than just being nasty. One might argue it's fair game in a PvP area, but let's remember even during WW1 soldiers from opposing sides were able to get together to play some ball.

SwimsWithMemes · February 26

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Personally I've never seen a regular PvP player camp the PvE quest givers in Cyrodiil. That's not PvP. That's just low rewards trollish behavior. Just about any other activity in Cyro will yield more AP and fun.

On the weekend I was trying to clean up some Cropsford quests, there were probably about half a dozen blues there as we had most keeps and it's quite far away from DC HQ. Two reds came and just camped the area. Didn't try to take the town, just stealthed up, let people respawn, wiped them. Some PvP blues turned up there and we took the two reds out. 20 mins later, zone chat was complaining they were back again.

So PvP spec'd players do camp quest areas of they think they can farm some easy kills

Muizer · February 26

I like doing PvE in a PvP zone. The possibility of getting attacked (and probably killed) by a player is essential. If there were no PvPers doing that, it would be boring as (insert profanity of choice). So dear PvPers, next time you see someone doing PvE in a PvP zone, attack. That's the only way to show respect to your fellow players. You have to assume they want to be there. And that includes the possibility of being killed by another player. After all, nobody is ever forced to be in a PvP zone.If there are people who feel forced into PvP, that's another matter entirely. That's something between ZOS and those players. It shouldn't impact the game we commit to by entering a PvP zone.

ZOS_GregoryV · February 26

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we would like to remind all members of the community to be sure to keep all comments within the guidelines of the Community Rule.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

spartaxoxo · February 26

Muizer wrote: »

I like doing PvE in a PvP zone. The possibility of getting attacked (and probably killed) by a player is essential. If there were no PvPers doing that, it would be boring as (insert profanity of choice). So dear PvPers, next time you see someone doing PvE in a PvP zone, attack. That's the only way to show respect to your fellow players. You have to assume they want to be there. And that includes the possibility of being killed by another player. After all, nobody is ever forced to be in a PvP zone.If there are people who feel forced into PvP, that's another matter entirely. That's something between ZOS and those players. It shouldn't impact the game we commit to by entering a PvP zone.

Eh. For me, it depends on where I am. Up in the districts of IC or by Molag Bal, fair play. Down in the sewer by your homebase and the entrance is getting camped, then I think that's just annoying. Same with quest locations like Cheydinhall in Cyrodiil. There's not even any real PvP benefits to going to that location. Seems like anyone trying to camp Cheydinhall is mostly a PvPer looking for easy PvE targets.

Personally, people mostly leave me alone if I stay out of the most valuable PvP objectives. But, it's on sight if I try to do major objectives like flip flags or kill patrolling horrors.

I quite like this social norm and it makes me think positively of the PvP community in this game because it's not a requirement. They are just doing a kindness because they understand that ZOS places PvErs in an uncompetitive position by having PvE objectives and making PvE gear so bad in PvP areas. Since ZOS makes these guys such easy targets, PvPers are mostly happy to leave them alone as long as the PvErs also leave them alone.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 26

The answer is simple, they do this because they are not skilled enough to kill other PvP players, they attack a PvE player because the PvE player is ill-equipped to fight back so for them it is something easier, more catered to their skill level.

If you admit to doing this you're also admitting that your not good at fighting.

The best counter to these sorts of players is to just go to Cyrodiil with a Tank build, these people tend to be bad at combat so will struggle to deal any significant damage to a well built tank.

SilverBride · February 26

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The answer is simple, they do this because they are not skilled enough to kill other PvP players, they attack a PvE player because the PvE player is ill-equipped to fight back so for them it is something easier, more catered to their skill level.

If you admit to doing this you're also admitting that your not good at fighting.

How is a player supposed to look at another player and KNOW if they are a PvP player, or a PvE player, or how geared and skilled they are?

PvP players may do quests, too. Just because they are questing doesn't mean they are an underskilled and undergeared PvE player.

blktauna · February 26

Lusers camp PVErs. If you're in for fights, go get fights.

FlameDark · February 27

Hiya! I've never PvPed yet in this game, but I have in others. From what I've read, I think it's a bit odd to put PvE things in a PvP zone. That's not really on any players for that one. The PvErs must go into a zone they're not very skilled at, with gear not meant for it to do content they need to complete for PvE. As someone just trying to get their first decent gear just for the base game, I can tell you im not about to do it twice for content I have little interest in right now. Then the PvPers who are there to kill other players do exactly what they came there to do. I don't really see much wrong with that. I don't think they're wrong for killing PvErs. If I got killed in Cyrodill trying to get the skyshards (which I dread knowing that I will have to do that eventually to get the PvE achievement for it) I wouldnt blame the players, but blame the decision to put the PvE content in that zone (fishing in Cyrodill... how?). PvPers are there to destroy and annihilate players. They're hunting for them, they're geared for it, its what they like to do. I can't blame them for that at all. BUT I do agree it is tasteless to be puppy guarding a quest giver or known PvE content area JUST to get the easy kills off of the PvErs. BUTTTTTT isnt Cyrodill about alliance battles? When this sort of thing happens shouldnt the PvErs call out the griefers, and that person's alliance help them out by utterly mowing over the griefer? I dunno when I played other PvP games in large teams like this, we never tolerated griefers and killed them just as many times as they enjoyed killing weaker players until they got salty and left. Maybe I really overstepped with this post, and Im sorry if I upset anyone. But this whole thing just seems bizarre to me. The game was made to allow this to happen by the design choices, the PvPers chose to use it, why are we blaming the PvPers for perhaps not very good game design choices?