PvP player perspective on why PvP players kill friendly "questers" / PvE geared players.

Heelie · February 26

I Have Been following the post since the beginning of this event. And I have seen a lot of posts from PvE players who obviously do not enjoy PvP tired of getting killed when just trying to do activities for the event. The counter you see is from other players pointing out that PvP zones are for PvP. But I think the problem is more nuanced than presented here. I think it's the easiest to explain with my own anecdote of killing questers in Vlastarus.

Day one of the event I decided to do all the golden pursuits as I never know how much I was going to play. At 10 in the evening I am just missing the Quest in the towns. At this point, I have already decided I am not going to kill anyone I just want the quest over and done with. But I decided to take my magicka sorcerer as an insurance as this is by far the best 1vX class in the game. Plus it also has good damage for the few PvE enemies during the quest. Once I get into Cyrodill none of the towns are AD, but I decide to go to Vlastarus anyway as we control a few keeps there. When I arrive there are 6-7 blue players, a quick glance at their HP, as well as none of them keeping up buffs tells me they are all there to quest and I run past all of them without attacking a single one. Once I pick up my set and quest and head out I run into a Warden player whom I have killed a few times today already (In IC and in keeps). He's not going to let me go, so he obviously attacked me on sight. This wouldn't have been a problem for me, but the second that he attacked me… Every single one of those players that I just let live decides to join him. I end up spending the next half an hour kiting and picking off this group of “questers” across half of Tamriel. And all that time I couldn't help myself thinking that if I had just killed them all at the very start they probably would have returned to base and I would have had the town for myself.

While this might just be my anecdote, when I talk to other players the number one reason that they kill “questers” on sight is that they hate being 3rd partyed. PvE templar beams, lightning heavies, and snipe spam are the most infamous.

From a PvP player to players that just want to be left alone. Stop 3rd partying PvP players at every opportunity you get. While you're never going to stop the Nightblade gankers who are having the time of their lives ruining your day. I feel like I have pretty much been “radicalized” into killing PvE spec players on sight. I can not think of a single time recently where I let a PvE player live, and that they didn't attack me as soon as they saw an opportunity to do so. PvP players aren't so unique evil entities out to ruin your day, most of them are looking to have fun and typically these are near-peer 1v1 2v2s with other PvP geared players. And when you interfere in those fights you ruin their experience, and this is why they kill you, even preemptively. Most PvP players don't take joy in killing questers, they do so because they know that these players won't think twice about 3rd partying as soon as they turn your back on them.

dinokstrunz · February 26

Why? Because it's funny.

I'm looking for a fight at a designated PvP area, I see a potential target I attack. Odds are if I don't kill questers they will likely group up and swarm. It is what it is.

WaywardArgonian · February 26

A similar thing happened in IC. I spotted someone who was obviously a quester judging by his alliance rank, HP pool and general movement. We saw each other and I didn't engage as I was also just there to get a daily done for the ticket. Then 20 seconds later, the same player is in the quest area with 2 friends and he tries to kill me as I am doing a quest objective (burning those ballistae). Obvs he has no damage, so I kill him and go about my day. It's just to show that leaving someone alive is never without risk. I do not go out of my way to kill questers and try to leave them alone when I can, but it is 100% a courtesy on my behalf and not something they should feel entitled to. My general rule of thumb is that when someone participates in any PVP activity (flipping a resource or taking part of the defense or offense or a keep or outpost), everyone is fair game no matter how low level/rank they are.

Veinblood1965 · February 26

I don't kill them in Cyrodiil but I do in IC if it's not obvious they are doing a quest.

IC is cramped quarters and you have to be on the lookout all the times. If I see someone running around solo I just go after them without checking their CP etc as taking that time leaves me vulnerable for those few seconds. If I notice quickly that they are low CP and obviously just killing mobs etc I leave them alone during events(non-event they are fair game).

In Cyrodiil it's usually obvious someone is doing a quest as the quest areas are so specific. I normally just leave any questers alone during events and non-events as they are NOT affecting the campaign.

NOT saying I haven't killed a few though, once in a while it is fun lol.

Another factor is the if it is a NON-CP server. If it is non-cp I leave everyone alone unless they attack me. They are usually there for the same reason I am. To complete an objective like a quest as there's hardly anyone there.

Ulvich · February 26

I encounter questers every day in Cyrodiil. I just leave them be. I have other stuff to do then kill someone who isn't set for pvp.

RealLoveBVB · February 26

Heelie wrote: »

I Have Been following the post since the beginning of this event. And I have seen a lot of posts from PvE players who obviously do not enjoy PvP tired of getting killed when just trying to do activities for the event. The counter you see is from other players pointing out that PvP zones are for PvP. But I think the problem is more nuanced than presented here. I think it's the easiest to explain with my own anecdote of killing questers in Vlastarus.

Day one of the event I decided to do all the golden pursuits as I never know how much I was going to play. At 10 in the evening I am just missing the Quest in the towns. At this point, I have already decided I am not going to kill anyone I just want the quest over and done with. But I decided to take my magicka sorcerer as an insurance as this is by far the best 1vX class in the game. Plus it also has good damage for the few PvE enemies during the quest. Once I get into Cyrodill none of the towns are AD, but I decide to go to Vlastarus anyway as we control a few keeps there. When I arrive there are 6-7 blue players, a quick glance at their HP, as well as none of them keeping up buffs tells me they are all there to quest and I run past all of them without attacking a single one. Once I pick up my set and quest and head out I run into a Warden player whom I have killed a few times today already (In IC and in keeps). He's not going to let me go, so he obviously attacked me on sight. This wouldn't have been a problem for me, but the second that he attacked me… Every single one of those players that I just let live decides to join him. I end up spending the next half an hour kiting and picking off this group of “questers” across half of Tamriel. And all that time I couldn't help myself thinking that if I had just killed them all at the very start they probably would have returned to base and I would have had the town for myself.

While this might just be my anecdote, when I talk to other players the number one reason that they kill “questers” on sight is that they hate being 3rd partyed. PvE templar beams, lightning heavies, and snipe spam are the most infamous.

From a PvP player to players that just want to be left alone. Stop 3rd partying PvP players at every opportunity you get. While you're never going to stop the Nightblade gankers who are having the time of their lives ruining your day. I feel like I have pretty much been “radicalized” into killing PvE spec players on sight. I can not think of a single time recently where I let a PvE player live, and that they didn't attack me as soon as they saw an opportunity to do so. PvP players aren't so unique evil entities out to ruin your day, most of them are looking to have fun and typically these are near-peer 1v1 2v2s with other PvP geared players. And when you interfere in those fights you ruin their experience, and this is why they kill you, even preemptively. Most PvP players don't take joy in killing questers, they do so because they know that these players won't think twice about 3rd partying as soon as they turn your back on them.

From their point of view it looked like you are the invader, as you were in combat with the warden.

But the problem aren't players like you, who just take revenge. The real honorless players are actually real pvpers, mostly nightblades, who's their only job at events to camp in villages, mainly at doors or the quest givers, where players are stuck with the dialogue.

When I see a combat cross in vlastarus in BR EU, I know exactly which players are farming there.
There are sadly no negative rewards for being the most pathetic player on the server 😒

Calastir · February 26

And this is why I as a PvE'er stopped questing in PvP alltogether.

PvP draws toxic people or turns people toxic.

Arrow312 · February 26

Players like this arent "real" PvPers. Real PvPers arent wait a quest points in town to kill quester. They take scrolls, keeps play as Ballgroups but never wait at those points.

emilyhyoyeon · February 26

I've seen this many times although I still prefer to leave questers alone since the ratio of questers who do this vs don't in my experience is like 1:5 at most.

Major_Mangle · February 26

At the end of the day it's a PvP zone. In my eyes anyone who steps into Cyrodiil/IC/BG's are by default a "pvp player" and anything goes. It's not that deep.

BXR_Lonestar · February 26

Arrow312 wrote: »

Players like this arent "real" PvPers. Real PvPers arent wait a quest points in town to kill quester. They take scrolls, keeps play as Ballgroups but never wait at those points.

Pretty much this. Why sit and kill questers when there is better AP and fun to be had elsewhere?

That being said, I did kill questers in Vlastarus this weekend on my bowgank, but they were in my way when I was trying to collect/turn in quests for my golden pursuit. And I was sorely outnumbered so I didn't think it was that unsporting.

But I also didn't sit there and farm them. Once I was done, I took off. Better things to do.

I did find that it is absolutely hilarious though to get on a troll tank and go to the quest towns and troll those people who are setting up to gank the questers. I did that for a couple of hours the other night, and the reds got so salty they summoned the entire red server to deal with just a small handful of us lol.

c363b · February 26

While my PVE character was working on Cyrodiil town quests, he has been killed by PVP players arriving to capture the town. That is as expected. While I waited for the battle to end, in case a player of my alliance revived me, I was revived by an enemy player, whose alliance I could not see, only to be immediately killed again by that player. I did not consider that to be fair play.

AzuraFan · February 26

It should be easy to tell if someone's questing in Cyrodiil. If someone is away from all the action, they're likely questing. In IC, it's harder because it's smaller, and questers and PvPers alike attack NPCs. Because of that, I forgive anyone who attacks me in IC if I'm not doing something obvious like fishing. But when I'm ganked in Cyrodiil when turning in a quest, or attacked in the middle of nowhere when I'm clearly questing, well, I can't say what I think about a person that does that sort of thing. Not here, anyway.

It's not technically wrong to kill someone who's clearly questing. But there's a reason nobody likes gankers and those who prey on those weaker than themselves. You can rationalize any behaviour, of course. But you're only fooling yourself.

However, gankers and those who find pleasure in preying on those weaker than them will always exist and we just have to put up with them.

I don't mind dying in Cyrodiil. I hate the time it takes to get back to where I was. And that's also true if I want to join a battle. Last night I was in Cyrodiil trying to join a battle, but because none of the keeps under attack was connected to my location, I kept trying to ride there, but the battle would end. Okay, there's another one under attack, I'll go there. Nope, 5 minutes later while I'm still galloping across empty land, the battle's already over. If ZOS wants more people to PvP, make it easier to move around Cyrodiil. Not that I will outside the event, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's given up on trying when I'm in Cyrodiil because of the inexplicably lousy transit system.

Arrow312 · February 26

If i see quester i let them quest if a quester attacks me back to spawn point for the quester.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Arrow312 wrote: »

Players like this arent "real" PvPers. Real PvPers arent wait a quest points in town to kill quester. They take scrolls, keeps play as Ballgroups but never wait at those points.

Pretty much this. Why sit and kill questers when there is better AP and fun to be had elsewhere?

That being said, I did kill questers in Vlastarus this weekend on my bowgank, but they were in my way when I was trying to collect/turn in quests for my golden pursuit. And I was sorely outnumbered so I didn't think it was that unsporting.

But I also didn't sit there and farm them. Once I was done, I took off. Better things to do.

I did find that it is absolutely hilarious though to get on a troll tank and go to the quest towns and troll those people who are setting up to gank the questers. I did that for a couple of hours the other night, and the reds got so salty they summoned the entire red server to deal with just a small handful of us lol.

if they at a potential spawn point for the next keep e.g. brindle, Dclaw ok shxt happens. But just wait for them there for how much 600 AP or so?? Naaah i let them quest, too if i saw someone questing but if they attack me -> back to spawn for them. tbf sometimes i run to the gankers of my color and show the quester where they sit xD

AzuraFan · February 26

Arrow312 wrote: »

If i see quester i let them quest if a quester attacks me back to spawn point for the quester. [

If anyone attacks you, fire away for sure. If someone attacks you, they're not just questing. They're fair game.

SaffronCitrusflower · February 26

Calastir wrote: »

And this is why I as a PvE'er stopped questing in PvP alltogether.

PvP draws toxic people or turns people toxic.

How do you know it's not PvE that draws toxic people or turns people toxic? We all start out as PvE players after all, right? How do you know it's not PvE players camping the quest givers in the towns? Personally I've never seen a regular PvP player camp the PvE quest givers in Cyrodiil. That's not PvP. That's just low rewards trollish behavior. Just about any other activity in Cyro will yield more AP and fun.

Vulsahdaal · February 26

c363b wrote: »

While I waited for the battle to end, in case a player of my alliance revived me, I was revived by an enemy player, whose alliance I could not see, only to be immediately killed again by that player. I did not consider that to be fair play.

This is possible? Ive spent years in Cyro and I never knew this, not that Id want to rez any enemies anyway. Not even to kill again, nope.

This said, if Im in a town during an event, I dont bother anyone unless Im attacked first.

Thumbless_Bot · February 26

Heelie wrote: »

I Have Been following the post since the beginning of this event. And I have seen a lot of posts from PvE players who obviously do not enjoy PvP tired of getting killed when just trying to do activities for the event. The counter you see is from other players pointing out that PvP zones are for PvP. But I think the problem is more nuanced than presented here. I think it's the easiest to explain with my own anecdote of killing questers in Vlastarus.

Day one of the event I decided to do all the golden pursuits as I never know how much I was going to play. At 10 in the evening I am just missing the Quest in the towns. At this point, I have already decided I am not going to kill anyone I just want the quest over and done with. But I decided to take my magicka sorcerer as an insurance as this is by far the best 1vX class in the game. Plus it also has good damage for the few PvE enemies during the quest. Once I get into Cyrodill none of the towns are AD, but I decide to go to Vlastarus anyway as we control a few keeps there. When I arrive there are 6-7 blue players, a quick glance at their HP, as well as none of them keeping up buffs tells me they are all there to quest and I run past all of them without attacking a single one. Once I pick up my set and quest and head out I run into a Warden player whom I have killed a few times today already (In IC and in keeps). He's not going to let me go, so he obviously attacked me on sight. This wouldn't have been a problem for me, but the second that he attacked me… Every single one of those players that I just let live decides to join him. I end up spending the next half an hour kiting and picking off this group of “questers” across half of Tamriel. And all that time I couldn't help myself thinking that if I had just killed them all at the very start they probably would have returned to base and I would have had the town for myself.

While this might just be my anecdote, when I talk to other players the number one reason that they kill “questers” on sight is that they hate being 3rd partyed. PvE templar beams, lightning heavies, and snipe spam are the most infamous.

From a PvP player to players that just want to be left alone. Stop 3rd partying PvP players at every opportunity you get. While you're never going to stop the Nightblade gankers who are having the time of their lives ruining your day. I feel like I have pretty much been “radicalized” into killing PvE spec players on sight. I can not think of a single time recently where I let a PvE player live, and that they didn't attack me as soon as they saw an opportunity to do so. PvP players aren't so unique evil entities out to ruin your day, most of them are looking to have fun and typically these are near-peer 1v1 2v2s with other PvP geared players. And when you interfere in those fights you ruin their experience, and this is why they kill you, even preemptively. Most PvP players don't take joy in killing questers, they do so because they know that these players won't think twice about 3rd partying as soon as they turn your back on them.

Those pve players likely cannot get Xs on their own. Heck, 95% of regular cyro players including most emps can't x on their own so they run in zergs. Either way, if they do have enough numbers to actually kill you, you will likely be treated with an assortment of free bags like you've just won the Showcase Showdown on the Price is Right.

Let the pve'ers have their fun. Who knows, it might even encourage them to stick around and get good at pvp. We could use the population.

The_Meathead · February 26

PvP zone = everyone is fair game, and that's really the bottom line.

I don't attack enemy players if I see them at a Quest giver, but if I stumble across someone while I'm riding solo in the middle of nowhere and they are too I will absolutely attack.

Part of that is because like the OP mentions, if you make the assumption someone else won't - they might, and then you're at a disadvantage. Other stealthed enemies might be present, and often the same guy who just seems to want to kill his bandits or burn ballistae in peace will absolutely join in if you're jumped by another player or two from their faction. Opportunism strikes fast, and it strikes hard.

The really important thing is to just play the game, not take it personally, and only enter PvP zones knowing that actual PvP at any time is a part of the experience. Worst case scenario, you die and have to run back, not a huge deal.

RealLoveBVB · February 26

Arrow312 wrote: »

Players like this arent "real" PvPers. Real PvPers arent wait a quest points in town to kill quester. They take scrolls, keeps play as Ballgroups but never wait at those points.

Sadly they are.
There was a known streamer once, who only played bg/cyro content and this actually pretty good. But as soon as the event is on, you saw him in towns going rampage. And why? A 100:0 kd looks pretty shiny.
This has nothing to do with being a PvPer or not, it's more a characteristic if someone has a big ego or honor at all.

TheMajority · February 26

I always said that it's really PVE player doing the killing, cause they turn on you as soon as they think they got a edge. Then they whisper you that you a ganker when you're just defending yourself from them actually trying to gank you

valenwood_vegan · February 26

I personally would never camp quest locations or seek out players who are questing, but if I encounter an enemy player I don't necessarily *know* what their intentions are.

Particularly in IC, I generally attack any enemies first and ask questions later. There's not an easy way to determine one's intentions there, and you never know if more of their buddies are hiding or about to show up. But also if I'm say, doing my quest for tickets in cropsford and an enemy player shows up, I may attack unless it's extremely obvious that they're questing and not a threat. Certainly if they are doing anything more than passively engaging with questgivers, like attacking the guards or trying to capture the flag, I'd attack immediately. Also they may just get unlucky and show up when another player from their alliance is engaging in combat in the area, and again, it's not always easy to figure out one's intentions.

Hesitating can put you at a big disadvantage, and I've been burned many times by ignoring someone who seems to be peaceful, only to have them turn around and attack when more of their friends show up, or when I've let down my guard.

Sarannah · February 26

Personally as a PvE quester I don't mind if someone kills me in a PvP zone, that is fair. But I do have a major issue with this when they kill me over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. (if that was tiresome to read, imagine how it felt!)

Was in IC today to get my 500 kills for the golden pursuit on an under level 50 char in PvE quest gear, and the same people kept killing me again and again. That is NOT fun, nor PvP!

That is only toxic and bullying. This is why PvP events should not be happening, they are just feeding questers to the morally lacking. Players should only move to PvP zones when they themselves are ready to go there.

PS: Had no other char to do that pursuit on, as it wasn't my main server.

OsUfi · February 26

Calastir wrote: »

And this is why I as a PvE'er stopped questing in PvP alltogether.

PvP draws toxic people or turns people toxic.

RNDs are incomprehensibley toxic to me. Was it the PvP in RNDs turned them toxic?

ThoraxtheDark · February 26

If you enter a pool. And you get wet. Why would you complain about being wet ?

If you enter pvp zone and die to pvp, why are you complaining ?

The game is encouraging you to play the game and build a pvp build with the over 700 sets in the game. Seems to me the pve players have the biggest problem here.

The game has been out over 10 years. You must be trolling if you don't understand why people go after other players.

Blood_again · February 26

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

c363b wrote: »

While I waited for the battle to end, in case a player of my alliance revived me, I was revived by an enemy player, whose alliance I could not see, only to be immediately killed again by that player. I did not consider that to be fair play.

This is possible? Ive spent years in Cyro and I never knew this, not that Id want to rez any enemies anyway. Not even to kill again, nope.

No, it is impossible to resurrect any enemy alliance player in any PvP zone.
I guess the player was ressed by a sneaky ally and then was just killed by the same enemy again, that often happens in PvP

Xarc · February 26

I do not kill quester, except in the following cases:

- they attack me or a player of my alliance
- they're taking a flag or attacking a guard of my flag

RealLoveBVB · February 26

Xarc wrote: »

I do not kill quester, except in the following cases:

- they attack me or a player of my alliance
- they're taking a flag or attacking a guard of my flag

In vlastarus the guards in the middle are kinda protecting the door to the questgiver.
If someone wants the quest in the house and he's killing the guards for that, you would kill this poor soul too?

Xarc · February 26

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

I do not kill quester, except in the following cases:

- they attack me or a player of my alliance
- they're taking a flag or attacking a guard of my flag

In vlastarus the guards in the middle are kinda protecting the door to the questgiver.
If someone wants the quest in the house and he's killing the guards for that, you would kill this poor soul too?

yes
I don't have time to sort at this point

Blood_again · February 26

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

The game is encouraging you to play the game and build a pvp build with the over 700 sets in the game. Seems to me the pve players have the biggest problem here.

As mostly PvEer and part time PvPer - no, making a pvp build is not the biggest problem for PvE player.
It may be a problem for potential PvPer, but not for a pure PvEer and that's why.

Problem is that PvP build won't save you if you're just a pveer.
Player should spend lots of time and attention to get used to the build. Should know their limits when to attack and when to run. Should work on some vital habits and get rid of bad ones that kill them in encounter.
All this takes time in PvP action only. Also it requires to be eager to fight with players. If a player doesn't like PvP in any kind, they will suffer and drop it soon. PvP build will be just a tiny help here.

I may catch myself many times a day on a moment "I just wanted to do quests... why am I running for this player and trying to kill them?"

But I believe that many PvE players don't. I think it is a fair decision not to spend any time mastering their pvp skills, if they aren't eager to PvP in their souls.
I don't have a panacea for pure PvE players in this situation, but I know that PvP builds aren't the thing.

Arrow312 · February 26

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

I do not kill quester, except in the following cases:

- they attack me or a player of my alliance
- they're taking a flag or attacking a guard of my flag

In vlastarus the guards in the middle are kinda protecting the door to the questgiver.
If someone wants the quest in the house and he's killing the guards for that, you would kill this poor soul too?

e.g. your on your way to brindle and need Vast as spawn you need to clean it up. No matter if there are quester or not. Another example you are on brindle and try to get it and there are quester flip the town you need to kill them.

But if log in with queue and camp several hours in vlas just to farm "poor" PvEers nope that is just trolling