KDA fiends

Scarefish · February 7

Now, I'm a PvE player. I only play Battlegrounds casually for daily XP and tokens, but there is one thing players do that has been really annoying me lately. I've noticed every now and then when I pull up the leaderboards there will be someone on my team with a KDA of something like 12/0/17 and they're all the way at the bottom in an objectives-based mode. Get the objectives. Your KDA doesn't mean anything in a mode about capping a point and holding it if you're just cherry-picking cheesy kills on people and hiding in the shadows all match. Afaik the game doesn't even give you anything for having a perfect KDA.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 7

That sounds reasonable coming from a casual PvE player. However, we PvP players often go into BGs looking for fights. It’s the foundation of PvP.

Besides, you’re wrong about KDA meaning nothing. The fewer players left standing, the less resistance you’ll face when capping a point or running a relic. I’ve won plenty of BGs by simply racking up kills and letting my teammates deal with the objectives.

Major_Mangle · February 7

Players going into BG's without the intention of doing PvP and mainly for the daily exp is what annoys me more ngl. Rather have players who are in it for the PvP and want to fight other people than sitting semi afk at an objective.

Belegnole · February 7

Rofl, if you're playing death match in a capture the flag match you should loose.

WaywardArgonian · February 7

If there was a deathmatch-only queue, those players would join it. However, there is not, so they are free to engage with the little PVP content this game offers in a way they find to be enjoyable.

plasmab3ard · February 7

killing opponents in any of the pvp modes correlates strongly with winning objectives.

once youve accumulated some more experience, you should notice, assuming that you track such things, that you end up winning a lot more of the bgs where you have some teammates that tie down the opposing team by fighting and killing them.

there are specific playstyles (gankers, beamplars, etc) which can get kills without having much of an impact on the flow of a game, but in general, pvp matches are won by pvping.

the only common situation which comes to mind where one should not primarily focus on killing other players is when the other team is moving around as a full 8-man ball and your team cant win in a teamfight. in that case its best to split up and try to sneak in objective points while avoiding fights.

plasmab3ard · February 7

Belegnole wrote: »

Rofl, if you're playing death match in a capture the flag match you should loose.

i dont follow this logic at all. it is virtually impossible to pick up a relic without wiping the entire enemy team first since the pickup animation can be interrupted.

Thumbless_Bot · February 7

Scarefish wrote: »

Now, I'm a PvE player. I only play Battlegrounds casually for daily XP and tokens, but there is one thing players do that has been really annoying me lately. I've noticed every now and then when I pull up the leaderboards there will be someone on my team with a KDA of something like 12/0/17 and they're all the way at the bottom in an objectives-based mode. Get the objectives. Your KDA doesn't mean anything in a mode about capping a point and holding it if you're just cherry-picking cheesy kills on people and hiding in the shadows all match. Afaik the game doesn't even give you anything for having a perfect KDA.

Killing the opponent is always an objective. If they are dead they can't take your relic, stand on your flag, or kill you. KDA is the only.metric that matters in every format.

plasmab3ard wrote: »

killing opponents in any of the pvp modes correlates strongly with winning objectives.

once youve accumulated some more experience, you should notice, assuming that you track such things, that you end up winning a lot more of the bgs where you have some teammates that tie down the opposing team by fighting and killing them.

there are specific playstyles (gankers, beamplars, etc) which can get kills without having much of an impact on the flow of a game, but in general, pvp matches are won by pvping.

the only common situation which comes to mind where one should not primarily focus on killing other players is when the other team is moving around as a full 8-man ball and your team cant win in a teamfight. in that case its best to split up and try to sneak in objective points while avoiding fights.

Pretty much this...

Tinkerhorn · February 7

The points system doesn't accurately reflect contribution. If you defend your relic and get 15+ kills there's a good chance you'll be at the bottom of the leaderboard. Like wise if you're regularly fighting over flags but are not the one in the team standing on them to capture them you'll likely end up near the bottom of the leaderboard even though you may have arguably contributed more to enabling the flags capture.

xylena_lazarow · February 7

It's much less a problem since moving to 2-sided since the deathmatchers are at least pointed at the correct target, clearing out the fodder so I can focus on the heavies and objectives.

There's also the issue that the scoring system ignores things like defending your own relic in CTR, or cross shielding stats on group DD builds. Here's a CTR match where I did NOT farm KDA stats, just stayed back on the objective and played perfect relic defense, cross shielded allies when more were needed to defend, got 0 points for it.

moo_2021 · February 7

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Afaik the game doesn't even give you anything for having a perfect KDA.

We don't need anything.

Killing and getting killed is the way of life

Scarefish · February 9

I was mostly referring to Domination, in which the points are pretty 1:1 with actual value to the team. If you're just hiding around cherry picking kills while the other team is respawning ASAP and holding points, then you're playing wrong.

darvaria · February 10

Oh I need to save one of my game scores and post it. Usually, I go 0/0/0 and have scores at top .. 3K min and up to 6k. I usually only die if the chaos ball kills me. I really don't recall being lower than 2nd and am usually 1st. In one domination game I got 6K and someone had 20 kills and had 150 points. One of weeks when you needed like 15K or so medals for weekly endeavor. I was thinking OMG they will have to play 100 games. I got it done in 3 games. I like the way medals are awarded.

L2P objectives.

xylena_lazarow · February 10

darvaria wrote: »

Usually, I go 0/0/0 and have scores at top... L2P objectives

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CTR match where I did NOT farm KDA stats, just stayed back on the objective and played perfect relic defense, cross shielded allies when more were needed to defend, got 0 points for it

I think it's a good thing that defensive/support playstyles can have a place where they can top the scoreboard, but the scoring is pretty broken. I gave an example of how playing the objective and supporting allies can still end up giving you 0 points. And it's a team game, you're not topping the scoreboard unless your DD teammates are controlling the enemy population enough for you to be able to flip flags. Thanks to going 2-sided, deathmatchers now actually help their teammates win, instead of helping put 3rd place further in 3rd.

Aiden_Ayzaria · February 10

The thing with these objective modes is some players are only judging you based on the medal score. If you're ever last on the scoreboard while scoring 30 kills, they will flag you as an "elitist farming people instead of playing the objective" (that's the kind of whisper I sometimes receive). Now the thing they don't get is there are some builds not suited for every mode.

Let's take Chaos Ball and Relic for example. I use to play very squishy setups, based on mobility. Of course I won't carry a chaos ball or even try to pick a relic unless there's no one around. However what I can do is killing players around and drag the attention of as much players as I can.
If I engage a fight with 3 players and keep them busy, even a bit further away from the objective, that's sacrificing my presence on the objective while taking 3 of them out of the objective as well. That's a good tradeoff, which won't be shown on medal score but which is definitely helping the objective focused players by giving them more room to breath.

At the end, the problem is mostly the medal score, baiting a lot of people into thinking you're not contributing to the game (like relic defense for example as it was already pointed out in the dicussion) whereas killing people has a much bigger impact than people are giving it credit for in objective based mode. I can't capture a point while killing a player but a dead player can't capture any point either.

buzzclops · February 10

This game is absolutely not like other games. You have to fight if you want to win objectives. Sometimes I get called a deathmatcher but then my team is always dying in 2 hits not able to do anything. You have to be able to fight. Im so tired of ppl queuing in bgs with no build and around 18-20k hp or pve tanks complaining about objectives. Like it’s never someone with a real PvP builds. I’m not trying to be harsh to them, but it’s like going to a vet trial with a PvP build. I’m self aware enough to not do that, because it ruins the experience for the other players who put time in their builds for pve. You’re not entitled to complain if you won’t at least put minimal effort to “gEt mY dAiLy dOnE” rant over

plasmab3ard · February 16

yeah queueing with 20k hp health etc is borderline griefing

plasmab3ard · February 16

complaining about getting hard carried when u queue with 20k hp etc is just comedy

moo_2021 · February 16

it wasn't that bad. BG just becomes more and more difficult progressively with more specialized builds. Now the only PvEers who can be threatening are arcanists with their green laser.

buzzclops · February 18

moo_2021 wrote: »

it wasn't that bad. BG just becomes more and more difficult progressively with more specialized builds. Now the only PvEers who can be threatening are arcanists with their green laser.

Meh. Right now no pve build can perform at all tbh. Not while veterans players are constantly mixed up with new players/pve players. It’s actually quite bad how just one or two of these players can literally ruin the game because one team will almost automatically get spawn camped do to it being a numbers game. Idk what’s with the matchmaking but it’s got to change. Sometimes I know friends in my guilds get games popping with low cps/pve/players with quest gear (literally) while other vets sit in queu so it’s not like there wasn’t enough players and the game had to draw them.

Something is wrong and it’s making the experience bad for everyone tbh. Butttt I remember we said this during the new bgs pts. Lot of PvP players said this would happen especially with 2 teams only and it was ignored…

Scarefish · February 19

I agree that Chaos Ball is entirely broken and there's pretty much no way to gauge player contribution. I was mostly just referring to people in general who you can see just cherry-picking kills from a distance without getting their hands dirty in a match, at the clear expense of presence for objectives. Mostly happens in domination

Major_Mangle · February 19

buzzclops wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

it wasn't that bad. BG just becomes more and more difficult progressively with more specialized builds. Now the only PvEers who can be threatening are arcanists with their green laser.

Meh. Right now no pve build can perform at all tbh. Not while veterans players are constantly mixed up with new players/pve players. It’s actually quite bad how just one or two of these players can literally ruin the game because one team will almost automatically get spawn camped do to it being a numbers game. Idk what’s with the matchmaking but it’s got to change. Sometimes I know friends in my guilds get games popping with low cps/pve/players with quest gear (literally) while other vets sit in queu so it’s not like there wasn’t enough players and the game had to draw them.

Something is wrong and it’s making the experience bad for everyone tbh. Butttt I remember we said this during the new bgs pts. Lot of PvP players said this would happen especially with 2 teams only and it was ignored…

Why should "PvE" builds be able to perform in a PvP setting? I don't disagree that the matchmaking isn't good, but expecting a build not tailored for PvP to perform decently in a PvP mode is a bit of a strange expectation.

moo_2021 · February 19

Scarefish wrote: »

I agree that Chaos Ball is entirely broken and there's pretty much no way to gauge player contribution. I was mostly just referring to people in general who you can see just cherry-picking kills from a distance without getting their hands dirty in a match, at the clear expense of presence for objectives. Mostly happens in domination

That's why we should skip objective to go after them, but then people would complain about KDA fiends.

buzzclops · February 19

Btw I agree they shouldn’t be good in PvP, look at my comment couple above this lol. Was just saying that none can do better than they used to aka heavy attacks sorcs beam arc like in the 3 teams format

But they keep queuing and should at least be put together. It’s ruins PvP when they are on your team

Scarefish · February 20

moo_2021 wrote: »

Scarefish wrote: »

I agree that Chaos Ball is entirely broken and there's pretty much no way to gauge player contribution. I was mostly just referring to people in general who you can see just cherry-picking kills from a distance without getting their hands dirty in a match, at the clear expense of presence for objectives. Mostly happens in domination

That's why we should skip objective to go after them, but then people would complain about KDA fiends.

I'm not talking about people chasing others down, quite the opposite. I don't mean you have to sit on the objectives all the time, but you should every now and then. What I'm talking about is people camping near their own spawn, and ks'ing teammates when they see an opportunity, and immediately retreating back to spawn away from any interaction on the map. It's not bad if you're in the chokepoints of the map ganking people.

moo_2021 · February 22

Scarefish wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Scarefish wrote: »

I agree that Chaos Ball is entirely broken and there's pretty much no way to gauge player contribution. I was mostly just referring to people in general who you can see just cherry-picking kills from a distance without getting their hands dirty in a match, at the clear expense of presence for objectives. Mostly happens in domination

That's why we should skip objective to go after them, but then people would complain about KDA fiends.

I'm not talking about people chasing others down, quite the opposite. I don't mean you have to sit on the objectives all the time, but you should every now and then. What I'm talking about is people camping near their own spawn, and ks'ing teammates when they see an opportunity, and immediately retreating back to spawn away from any interaction on the map. It's not bad if you're in the chokepoints of the map ganking people.

Given that there are only 2 teams, it's a viable tactic that can contribute by reducing the numbers of opponents reaching objectives.

The obvious counter, which I always do, is to chase them until one of us dies, then repeat. What higher purpose is there than to fight for each other and avenge whoever died?

plasmab3ard · February 23

Scarefish wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Scarefish wrote: »

I agree that Chaos Ball is entirely broken and there's pretty much no way to gauge player contribution. I was mostly just referring to people in general who you can see just cherry-picking kills from a distance without getting their hands dirty in a match, at the clear expense of presence for objectives. Mostly happens in domination

That's why we should skip objective to go after them, but then people would complain about KDA fiends.

I'm not talking about people chasing others down, quite the opposite. I don't mean you have to sit on the objectives all the time, but you should every now and then. What I'm talking about is people camping near their own spawn, and ks'ing teammates when they see an opportunity, and immediately retreating back to spawn away from any interaction on the map. It's not bad if you're in the chokepoints of the map ganking people.

kill em and bag em