I truly have high hopes for the upcoming changes in the ESO

Parasaurolophus · February 9

I am one of the old, experienced, and bored players. There are very few of us left in the game. But no, I’m not going anywhere—I’m a loyal fan of the series. Though I have to admit, there’s absolutely nothing left for me to do in the game. Most of my activity now boils down to crafting dailies, Endeavors, or gold pursuit.

I often log into the game in the evenings, hoping to find some fun. But after completing my Endeavors, I increasingly ask myself—why is this game still running? And that’s so sad.

I started wondering—maybe I’m just burned out? But I’ve come to a completely different conclusion. If I were truly burned out, I wouldn’t be logging in at all. So, what conclusions have I drawn?

Combat
One of the biggest issues in ESO throughout all its years is the fact that most players perform quite poorly. And I don’t blame them: developing the necessary skills for good PVE and PVP takes years. Personally, it took me over a year to establish my DPS, master weaving, and react properly to various mechanics (vMA helped a lot in honing these skills back in the day). And I enjoy this process—I truly believe that ESO’s combat system is dynamic and well-designed.
However, the reality is that the more skill-intensive a combat system is, the fewer players will be able to master it. This creates a massive number of issues for the game. For instance, after playing an Arcanist for a year, I find it difficult to return to the regular rotations of other classes. We’ve already seen how the introduction of the Oaken Soul and the Arcanist temporarily revived PVE activity. But tying "easy" gameplay to specific artifacts or classes feels wrong to me. The system itself should become more flexible, with more flex slots and simpler rotations available for everyone.

PVE
This ties directly to the combat issues mentioned above. Veteran content, as it seems, is designed with players in mind who have mastered the mechanics and can output at least 90k DPS on the Iron Atronach. As a result, most veteran content isn’t particularly challenging—it’s accessible to “reasonably experienced” players. Only hard modes (HM) require exceptional skill.
The result is a situation where clearing regular veteran content becomes dull, but for HM, 99% of players lack either the skill or the desire to attempt it. This is especially true for DLC dungeons and trials. Back in the pre-DLC era, running Undaunted dailies was fun. But now, with dozens of DLC dungeons available, there’s no reason to run them without doing HM.
This issue could be alleviated if players had a large circle of skilled friends. However, more and more I notice that such players either leave the game or simply lose the time and interest to tackle DLC HM content.

PVP
Much has been said over the last 10 years about Cyrodiil’s performance and ball groups, so I won’t dwell on that. I’ll just add this: I dislike Cyrodiil. I see no point in going there when the most effective tactic is to gather in a group and spam AoEs.
However, I’ve always been a fan of battlegrounds, and the new ones are quite decent. That said, the outcome of a match critically depends on the number of healers on each team, and this issue remains unaddressed.
As for what really turns me away from PVP over the years—it’s balance. Dragonknights and Sorcerers seem to dominate and annihilate everything around them from the very beginning of the game. Why does Dragon Leap stun players even before landing? Why does Jesus Beam deal damage at the start of the cast, before it even lands? Why haven’t these issues been resolved yet?
Occasionally, balance feels fine. But most of the time, it falls apart with the very next patch. Oh, and don’t even get me started on the heavy/heal meta—it’s completely unbalanced.

ToT
It’s pure RNG. Maybe I’m missing something, but if you know the mechanics, all you can do is pick the right cards and pray to the RNG gods. That’s it. Nothing else depends on you.
The new decks don’t improve the situation—instead, they drag out the matches unnecessarily. Instead of engaging strategic gameplay, we’re left with a slow, random process where chance determines the outcome. As for the overland itself, far too much has already been said about it.

Questing and Overland
Here, I need to express an opinion that few dare to voice. Perhaps I need to muster some courage to say this. But… ESO falls far behind the mainline Elder Scrolls titles in terms of creative and atmosphere. No chapter of ESO has ever evoked the same awe and excitement as a new Elder Scrolls installment. And, frankly, it probably never will. There are several reasons for this:
For instance, the art direction often feels uninspired. Remember how the artists behind Daggerfall managed to create unique, memorable depictions of Daedric Princes? Now look at ESO’s dull, almost bland hippie-version of Meridia. Or those massive, brutal iron towers in the Deadlands. Why were they turned into a chaotic mix of spikes and stained glass? And many others...
The armor styles don’t fare much better. Most of them look like random variations of plates with patterns, barely distinguishable from one another.
And then we have the characters. Most of them come across as generic Californians with minimal effort to make them culturally authentic. When ZOS attempts to give characters some sort of cultural identity, it ends up feeling like a parody. Just look at how Nords are represented in ESO.
But perhaps the biggest issue lies in the MMO genre itself. It demands bright, easily recognizable designs for today’s broad, modern audience. Does this approach justify itself? Is this what we love about Elder Scrolls? I’m not convinced.
The one area where I have no complaints is the music, and I want to highlight Brad Derrick. Sure, he’s not Jeremy Soule. In the base game, you can hear him trying to emulate Soule’s style, and while he somewhat succeeds, it’s clear that this limits him. However, Derrick truly shines in the DLCs. Considering that Soule will likely not return as the composer for future Elder Scrolls games, I sincerely hope that Brad Derrick will take his place.

As a result, I’ve been observing all these issues for a very long time, and it seems they’ve finally reached some sort of point of no return. A point where the player population has drastically declined, which has only exacerbated every problem. Finding any kind of activity now takes an unreasonably long time. Essentially, you can only play this game properly during the short window of prime time—after that, it’s just silence. I wrote all of this for those who are still wondering why the game’s population has sharply declined, especially this summer after the release of the Gold Road.

This game needs a shake-up. The combat system needs to be simplified in some way, or else the vast majority of players will only ever experience normal-mode dungeons. They need to develop some content that isn’t, as it is now, either too easy or too hard. The incentive and reward system needs better planning. I truly have high hopes for ESO’s future.

colossalvoids · February 9

So, after reading all of that I'm surely agree with some and disagree with couple of points but not sure I get why exactly you have higher hopes now? After ten years or rather after we observed the direction the game is going for the last 4-5 years roughly.

I'm surely a pessimist hiding behind a notion of realism so not sure where to find it in the OP or outside of it apart from words in last year's letter that would sound promising if weren't just words, same as every other year.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 9

The combat difficulty can be easy to resolve, add a Hard Mode debuff.

- Healing is reduced by 50%

- You deal 50% less damage and take 150% more damage

- Gold and Experience gain increased by 20%

amig186 · February 9

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Veteran content, as it seems, is designed with players in mind who have mastered the mechanics and can output at least 90k DPS on the Iron Atronach. As a result, most veteran content isn’t particularly challenging—it’s accessible to “reasonably experienced” players.

Am I missing something? It's not challenging as a direct result of being targeted at players who have mastered the mechanics and do top dps?

JiubLeRepenti · February 9

I also hope the game will take a new and more ambitious turn in 2025 OP.

But as mentioned above, we can't say ZOS has shined by their ambition and innovation these last years.

Let's cross our fingers and wait and see. I keep thinking the game has the potential to be an MMO buster. But it would require far more resources, ambition, and new content, especially for endgame/HL/PvP players.

spartaxoxo · February 9

amig186 wrote: »

Am I missing something? It's not challenging as a direct result of being targeted at players who have mastered the mechanics and do top dps?

Yeah, I find it really hard to believe that statement tbh. If it takes teams weeks to master, it is not easy.

Taril · February 9

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

One of the biggest issues in ESO throughout all its years is the fact that most players perform quite poorly.

This isn't unique to ESO.

The vast majority of people suck at video games. Which becomes most notable in MMO's wherein there is no MMR system to match people of similar* skill for activities, so you're stuck with people you happen to find regardless of their skills.

*Of course not all online games have particularly good MM systems, many like to "Average out" elo which doesn't work very well, especially for team based formats where one skilled person cannot hard carry the game.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And I don’t blame them: developing the necessary skills for good PVE and PVP takes years.

Not really.

The main thing is that the game doesn't really bother teaching you any of the skills at all. Literally, up until you start actually doing Vet content you have 0 reason to ever actually DO anything.

There is no difficulty in any content before then, no series of tasks that push you to learn things, nothing.

It's just "I can slam my face into my keyboard and be fine" until you get slapped by actually needing to perform.

With also one of the more significant problems not being skill related... But the fact that gear is also very specific. There are literally hundreds of absolute garbage sets in the game, which again, nothing is really taught to a player about what sets are good and why. It's just "Lmao I can just wear whatever green items I picked up while questing" until hitting that wall of Vet content where you're pushed towards the good sets.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

However, the reality is that the more skill-intensive a combat system is, the fewer players will be able to master it. This creates a massive number of issues for the game.

Not really.

How many people can master a system is irrelevant. What matter most is what level of adequacy is required to complete content.

You can have very complex systems that only 0.001% of people can truly master, if most people are still able to achieve a level of competence that gets them through it.

In fact, this is often the ideal scenario, since it gives people some room to grow and improve beyond "I just beat the content" - Which is generally why Hard Modes exist, to give people that extra thing to push themselves for.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

It’s pure RNG. Maybe I’m missing something, but if you know the mechanics, all you can do is pick the right cards and pray to the RNG gods. That’s it. Nothing else depends on you.

The skill is knowing which are the right cards and when to use patrons.

It's the same for any card game. RNG plays a factor, but the skill is all in the decisions you do make.

People often like to critizise card games for "Just being pure RNG" yet they gloss over their low win rates and the fact that the same people consistently reach the highest levels and get consistently high win rates. Decision making is the most important factor in many card games, ToT is no exception.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Questing and Overland

In before this thread gets closed and redirected to the Overland megathread.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Perhaps I need to muster some courage to say this. But… ESO falls far behind the mainline Elder Scrolls titles in terms of artistic design. No chapter of ESO has ever evoked the same awe and excitement as a new Elder Scrolls installment. And, frankly, it probably never will.

Well... Sure.

You have to put into perspective the scope of each game though.

Mainline TES titles, spend about 4-6 years in development. Wherein their focus is making this single game area.

ESO's chapters spend 1 year in development and are sharing development resources with overall game maintenance, introducing whatever new systems into other areas of the game and of course continuing to churn out Crown Store items regularly.

So of course, ESO will never have the same level of polish put into its artistic design. It literally has merely a fraction of the development time put into it.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The combat system needs to be simplified in some way, or else the vast majority of players will only ever experience normal-mode dungeons.

Is this necessary though?

Do the vast majority of players NEED to be experiencing Vet content and Trifectas?

I see plenty of people talk about how they're happy as a clam just putzing around overland slapping things and decorating their homes. They don't WANT to do Vet content.

It reminds me a lot of WoW where it was suddenly like "Oh, everyone NEEDS to be doing Raids!" while literally most people didn't care one iota about them, they were happy doing their dailies, running normal dungeons and crafting.

It's even less necessary when this isn't a Vertical Progression MMO. Outside of Monster Sets being exclusive to Vet Dungeons, there is literally no reason for anyone to do anything beyond Normal mode outside their own personal desire for more difficult content. Which is similar to GW2, no-one needs to do Raids in that game, you can get the best gear in the game without stepping foot in a raid and can play endlessly without ever even seeing a Raid which never has and continues to not be an issue.

At best, they need to provide a better transition for those looking to get into doing more difficult content. The jump into Vet content is pretty stark due to the complete lack of substance the game has outside of it and without any guidance most people will be completely lost in regards to how to optimize.

Beyond that... There should be more emphasis on providing players with options like Oaken/Velothi/Arcanist. Since if these forums are any indication then many players are 500 year olds with no hands who have the reaction time and dexterity of a stale pudding. Which is why options to simplify gameplay are welcomed by many.

Base combat itself... Could actually benefit from being more complex really. Since it is incredibly simple, it just has a lot of artificial complexity due to annoyance.

Like, the base combat is braindead simple. Keep buffs/debuffs/DoTs up and spam your spammable. That's it. That's the entirety of comabt in a nutshell. No skill interactions, no thoughts or decsions, just keep your timed stuff up and spam 1 skill.

The annoyance factor comes to make things more difficult. Weaving LA's, the fact that all these timed skills have short 10-20s durations (Along with the additional button presses that come from weapon swapping), the prevalence of ground target skills that make you have to constantly shift your camera down (And have to reapply whenever a boss moves) etc.

Which is again, where aforementioned options such as Oaken/Velothi/Arcanist see an increase in popularity. They actively reduce the amount of annoyance needed to put up with. Oaken removes the need to care about applying buffs and removes the second bar from being a concern. Velothi and Arcanist both drastically cut down the amount of LA weaving required.

kind_hero · February 9

I am also a veteran, playing for 10 years.

Years ago, I would do only the veteran version of the dungeons. After a few DLCs, I find those to be too much of a struggle for me, and I don't bother. For example, I did vet Frostvault when it was released for hours until my group completed it, and after that I didn't want to see that dungeon again.

My impression is that without understanding weaving, which was initially an unintended feature that became essential for good dps, a player can only get through half of the pve content, and experience most of the normal dungeons and trials. Weaving is not intuitive, the game doesn't help you figure it out. Also, all the hybridization and the countless useless sets make things really confusing.

So, an ESO player has to be very dedicated to get through veteran content, leaving vet trials aside, which are more for the "hardcore" players.

As one who played WoW many years before moving to ESO, I can compare the pve experience (I am not comparing the games). My playstyle hasn't changed from one game to the other. However, in WoW I did a lot of raids, including progression raids, while in ESO, I haven't done a single DLC veteran trial in 10 years, because I don't have the right dps. Yeah, you'll say that it's my skill issue, and "git gut", but what I want you to see from this is that many players are in the same boat. I did vMA though. In WoW, if you had the right gear, you could clear the raids much easier, while in ESO even if you have the right meta gear in gold, you can't do it if you can't push the numbers.

There is a big gap between the players who can do hard modes and those who can only do normal mode dungeons. The problem is that since this gap is so large, most players won't even try to cross it. That's why you don't find players to do the content you want. This is why players like me don't care about the vet content anymore, and focus on housing, crafting or alts.

I agree with ESO being more bland than the single player games. But that can't be fixed. Some DLCs were better and some were worse than the base game. We can only hope for some overhauls and better DLCs/seasons whatever.

Cyrodiil is so old now. I wish the devs would make a new Cyrodiil style map featuring some war in which players could timetravel and fight there. They could replace the Cyro map with that war for a few months, give players something fresh. Who knows.. maybe they are working on it already.

KekwLord3000 · February 9

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

I also hope the game will take a new and more ambitious turn in 2025 OP.

But as mentioned above, we can't say ZOS has shined by their ambition and innovation these last years.

Let's cross our fingers and wait and see. I keep thinking the game has the potential to be an MMO buster. But it would require far more resources, ambition, and new content, especially for endgame/HL/PvP players.

Zos's biggest issue was their mindset, they grown detached from their playerbase and kept pushing in a direction their fans asked not to, and when the playerbase left zos is sitting with a pikachu face how could this happen.
There are a few things zos failed a lot in the past 10 years.
1. Lack of communication, we would get enraged for a year or two zos would write an apology letter and start updating us frequently and then stop after a few month, then again and again the wheel has turned there hasn't been a steady stream of communication between the devs and the playerbase.
2. The whole idea that the Devs know better and that us players don't know what we want (They treated us like a spoiled kid that wants a candy now and they are the grown ups that want us to eat vegetables cause it good for us) that has been the mentality at zos for ages, very little feedback has been taken and implemented into the game and that's sad, there are a lot of passionate players in the community with very bright ideas, zos will only benefit if they listen to them.
3. Lack of rewards, zos did get slightly better with the past 2 years but that's not enough pve endgame isn't rewarding at all once you have completed the trial's trifecta, and let's not even talk about PVP rewards, a sad bear mount that took zos 10 years to release? yeah that's not gonna cut it.

I really hope zos will learn from their mistakes and start to listen to the community but with their long track record I'm not holding my breath, I mean I'm hopeful for the April reveal stream but I don't think 2025 will be the year ESO is saved not until zos really has good hard look at where they want to head with the game.

sans-culottes · February 9

Taril wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

One of the biggest issues in ESO throughout all its years is the fact that most players perform quite poorly.

This isn't unique to ESO.

The vast majority of people suck at video games. Which becomes most notable in MMO's wherein there is no MMR system to match people of similar* skill for activities, so you're stuck with people you happen to find regardless of their skills.

*Of course not all online games have particularly good MM systems, many like to "Average out" elo which doesn't work very well, especially for team based formats where one skilled person cannot hard carry the game.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And I don’t blame them: developing the necessary skills for good PVE and PVP takes years.

Not really.

The main thing is that the game doesn't really bother teaching you any of the skills at all. Literally, up until you start actually doing Vet content you have 0 reason to ever actually DO anything.

There is no difficulty in any content before then, no series of tasks that push you to learn things, nothing.

It's just "I can slam my face into my keyboard and be fine" until you get slapped by actually needing to perform.

With also one of the more significant problems not being skill related... But the fact that gear is also very specific. There are literally hundreds of absolute garbage sets in the game, which again, nothing is really taught to a player about what sets are good and why. It's just "Lmao I can just wear whatever green items I picked up while questing" until hitting that wall of Vet content where you're pushed towards the good sets.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

However, the reality is that the more skill-intensive a combat system is, the fewer players will be able to master it. This creates a massive number of issues for the game.

Not really.

How many people can master a system is irrelevant. What matter most is what level of adequacy is required to complete content.

You can have very complex systems that only 0.001% of people can truly master, if most people are still able to achieve a level of competence that gets them through it.

In fact, this is often the ideal scenario, since it gives people some room to grow and improve beyond "I just beat the content" - Which is generally why Hard Modes exist, to give people that extra thing to push themselves for.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

It’s pure RNG. Maybe I’m missing something, but if you know the mechanics, all you can do is pick the right cards and pray to the RNG gods. That’s it. Nothing else depends on you.

The skill is knowing which are the right cards and when to use patrons.

It's the same for any card game. RNG plays a factor, but the skill is all in the decisions you do make.

People often like to critizise card games for "Just being pure RNG" yet they gloss over their low win rates and the fact that the same people consistently reach the highest levels and get consistently high win rates. Decision making is the most important factor in many card games, ToT is no exception.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Questing and Overland

In before this thread gets closed and redirected to the Overland megathread.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Perhaps I need to muster some courage to say this. But… ESO falls far behind the mainline Elder Scrolls titles in terms of artistic design. No chapter of ESO has ever evoked the same awe and excitement as a new Elder Scrolls installment. And, frankly, it probably never will.

Well... Sure.

You have to put into perspective the scope of each game though.

Mainline TES titles, spend about 4-6 years in development. Wherein their focus is making this single game area.

ESO's chapters spend 1 year in development and are sharing development resources with overall game maintenance, introducing whatever new systems into other areas of the game and of course continuing to churn out Crown Store items regularly.

So of course, ESO will never have the same level of polish put into its artistic design. It literally has merely a fraction of the development time put into it.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The combat system needs to be simplified in some way, or else the vast majority of players will only ever experience normal-mode dungeons.

Is this necessary though?

Do the vast majority of players NEED to be experiencing Vet content and Trifectas?

I see plenty of people talk about how they're happy as a clam just putzing around overland slapping things and decorating their homes. They don't WANT to do Vet content.

It reminds me a lot of WoW where it was suddenly like "Oh, everyone NEEDS to be doing Raids!" while literally most people didn't care one iota about them, they were happy doing their dailies, running normal dungeons and crafting.

It's even less necessary when this isn't a Vertical Progression MMO. Outside of Monster Sets being exclusive to Vet Dungeons, there is literally no reason for anyone to do anything beyond Normal mode outside their own personal desire for more difficult content. Which is similar to GW2, no-one needs to do Raids in that game, you can get the best gear in the game without stepping foot in a raid and can play endlessly without ever even seeing a Raid which never has and continues to not be an issue.

At best, they need to provide a better transition for those looking to get into doing more difficult content. The jump into Vet content is pretty stark due to the complete lack of substance the game has outside of it and without any guidance most people will be completely lost in regards to how to optimize.

Beyond that... There should be more emphasis on providing players with options like Oaken/Velothi/Arcanist. Since if these forums are any indication then many players are 500 year olds with no hands who have the reaction time and dexterity of a stale pudding. Which is why options to simplify gameplay are welcomed by many.

Base combat itself... Could actually benefit from being more complex really. Since it is incredibly simple, it just has a lot of artificial complexity due to annoyance.

Like, the base combat is braindead simple. Keep buffs/debuffs/DoTs up and spam your spammable. That's it. That's the entirety of comabt in a nutshell. No skill interactions, no thoughts or decsions, just keep your timed stuff up and spam 1 skill.

The annoyance factor comes to make things more difficult. Weaving LA's, the fact that all these timed skills have short 10-20s durations (Along with the additional button presses that come from weapon swapping), the prevalence of ground target skills that make you have to constantly shift your camera down (And have to reapply whenever a boss moves) etc.

Which is again, where aforementioned options such as Oaken/Velothi/Arcanist see an increase in popularity. They actively reduce the amount of annoyance needed to put up with. Oaken removes the need to care about applying buffs and removes the second bar from being a concern. Velothi and Arcanist both drastically cut down the amount of LA weaving required.

Or animation canceling is bad for your hands. Plenty of games have “action combat” (a silly marketing term) without requiring the odd animation canceling cadence that’s become ESO’s meta. If anything, then I think the combat system odd flaws make playing, say, on consoles a drag.

It’s disappointing that you felt it necessary to attack players for whom the frenetic combat system that the devs recognize as problematic enough to have introduced several bandaids to address. Instead of adding more sets, maybe they should instead focus on making the core classes better.

The characterization of this system as somehow elite, though, is way off base.

CrazyKitty · February 9

The last of my hopeium died with U35.

AzuraFan · February 9

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

But… ESO falls far behind the mainline Elder Scrolls titles in terms of artistic design. No chapter of ESO has ever evoked the same awe and excitement as a new Elder Scrolls installment...
For instance, the art direction often feels uninspired.

Wow, out of all the criticisms of ESO, that's the last thing I expected to hear. The art is fantastic in this game. Look at some of the fabulous screenshots taken by players! I've played all the TES games, starting with Arena, and yes, when one releases, I'm like, "Yeah!", but it has nothing to do with the art. It's more to do with, "Yay, there's a new TES game that I'm going to spend hundreds of hours in." I guess you also missed a lot of the commentary about the lousy animations and such in TES games.

As far as LA weaving goes, sorry, I have an RSI. I'm not going to kill my tendons/joints so I can hit that maximum DPS. LA weaving is a dumb mechanic that apparently was a bug that they decided to keep. It should have been removed, but that boat has sailed.

Also, there's an assumption in some posts on this forum that every ESO player is interested in maximizing their DPS. Wrong. You only need to care about that if you want to do vet content. There are a lot of players here for the lore, the housing, the role-playing, the story, etc. Not the combat. Not the vet content. That's why ZOS had better be very careful about how they do a more difficult overland or they could tank this game real quick for a lot of people. The obsession with "closing the gap" is a wild goose chase as far as I'm concerned, that has done more damage than has helped, for everyone. Those who do care and those who don't.

Players who care about DPS will figure out how to do more DPS (if they're physically able to do so). Players who don't, won't. It's not a matter of skill. It's a matter of what someone is interested in doing in the game, or is physically capable of doing without aggravating injuries, i.e. causing actual real harm to themselves.

Also, I run normal dungeons all the time, and so do many other players. You might not have a reason to do anything but HM, but many players do.

Essentially, you can only play this game properly during the short window of prime time—after that, it’s just silence.

Nope. I rarely play at prime time for my server and I pug dungeons every day and see plenty of players running around.

You do sound bored at this point, so perhaps take a break. It sounds like you need one.

Taril · February 9

sans-culottes wrote: »

It’s disappointing that you felt it necessary to attack players for whom the frenetic combat system that the devs recognize as problematic enough to have introduced several bandaids to address. Instead of adding more sets, maybe they should instead focus on making the core classes better.

Where did I "Attack" anyone?

sans-culottes wrote: »

The characterization of this system as somehow elite, though, is way off base.

What?

I characterize the system as trash. As I outline by the fact that it's not "Complex" through any intuitive or interesting means but by tossing in a lot of annoyance and arbitrary APM.

TaSheen · February 9

AzuraFan wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

But… ESO falls far behind the mainline Elder Scrolls titles in terms of artistic design. No chapter of ESO has ever evoked the same awe and excitement as a new Elder Scrolls installment...
For instance, the art direction often feels uninspired.

Wow, out of all the criticisms of ESO, that's the last thing I expected to hear. The art is fantastic in this game. Look at some of the fabulous screenshots taken by players! I've played all the TES games, starting with Arena, and yes, when one releases, I'm like, "Yeah!", but it has nothing to do with the art. It's more to do with, "Yay, there's a new TES game that I'm going to spend hundreds of hours in." I guess you also missed a lot of the commentary about the lousy animations and such in TES games.

As far as LA weaving goes, sorry, I have an RSI. I'm not going to kill my tendons/joints so I can hit that maximum DPS. LA weaving is a dumb mechanic that apparently was a bug that they decided to keep. It should have been removed, but that boat has sailed.

Also, there's an assumption in some posts on this forum that every ESO player is interested in maximizing their DPS. Wrong. You only need to care about that if you want to do vet content. There are a lot of players here for the lore, the housing, the role-playing, the story, etc. Not the combat. Not the vet content. That's why ZOS had better be very careful about how they do a more difficult overland or they could tank this game real quick for a lot of people. The obsession with "closing the gap" is a wild goose chase as far as I'm concerned, that has done more damage than has helped, for everyone. Those who do care and those who don't.

Players who care about DPS will figure out how to do more DPS (if they're physically able to do so). Players who don't, won't. It's not a matter of skill. It's a matter of what someone is interested in doing in the game, or is physically capable of doing without aggravating injuries, i.e. causing actual real harm to themselves.

Also, I run normal dungeons all the time, and so do many other players. You might not have a reason to do anything but HM, but many players do.

Essentially, you can only play this game properly during the short window of prime time—after that, it’s just silence.

Nope. I rarely play at prime time for my server and I pug dungeons every day and see plenty of players running around.

You do sound bored at this point, so perhaps take a break. It sounds like you need one.

You said my own mouthful - so thanks! This is pretty much exactly what I was going to post....

VoxAdActa · February 9

Veteran content, as it seems, is designed with players in mind who have mastered the mechanics and can output at least 90k DPS on the Iron Atronach. As a result, most veteran content isn’t particularly challenging—it’s accessible to “reasonably experienced” players.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. 90k dps is "reasonably experienced"? 90k dps is, at best, the top 5% of players. I've been playing for more than 5 years and am happy when I can bash out more than 20k dps on the little skeleton dummy (I can't even kill the trial atronach; I run out of attention span and patience long before it's dead).

90k dps is a pipe dream for most of us, not "reasonably experienced."

(Well, except maybe on Arcanist, judging by the number of people who are saying Arcanist is over-tuned.)

SilverBride · February 9

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I am one of the old, experienced, and bored players. There are very few of us left in the game.

I can't get past this. I'm also am old experienced player and there is nothing out there that indicates there are very few of us left in the game. I feel that the opposite is true.

robwolf666 · February 9

My gaming malaise isn't so much focused on ESO in particular but games in general, especially in recent years. This is because, for me at least, there seems to be a downward trend in the quality of games.

I can't think of a single game I've been interested in over the past few years, including AAA titles, that hasn't been poor quality in one way or another—whether it's released broken or so full of bugs and glitches it may as well have been broken. And yet they still expect us to pay £50-£60+ for it? Classic case of paying more for less.

The game that made me stop pre-ordering was Cyberpunk 2077. I'm sure everyone knows what a mess that was on release. Then Starfield was a big disappointment for a variety of reasons. Then they managed to break Fallout 4 with a Next Gen "upgrade." And let's not forget the parody—at least, I assume it's a parody—of DA Veilguard, plus a few others mixed in.

The only games I still have on my Xbox's internal drive are ESO and Skyrim—both Elder Scrolls, and both "old." But now that ESO seems to be moving away from zone/story expansions, I'm wondering if my time with it will diminish. The thing that kept me coming back, most of all, was the new zones and stories—yet they stop before finishing the map of Tamriel? Why not complete the remaining areas first, then do something different?

I'm finding that I spend more and more time on Skyrim, experimenting with the mods it has available (not the paid ones).

End of sermon.

TaSheen · February 10

@robwolf666 - yeah. Since I have this new beast of a machine, I'm reinstalling Skyrim (and after, Oblivion) with all the mods I couldn't use so many years back.....

7 years in an MMO is just about my limit.

katanagirl1 · February 10

Saying that most players don’t want to increase their dps may or may not be true. Some players are ignorant, thinking they are doing much better than they are because others are carrying them through group dungeons and the concept of dps is something they don’t understand. (Someone who used to be on my friends list honestly thought that since he was a nightblade, he should stealth through the group dungeon and use assassinate skills on a single character just like dark brotherhood.). Some don’t care, hating anyone who wants to help them, saying they are toxic elitists when they themselves are the toxic casuals. Some really aren’t concerned and seek out other parts of the game to enjoy instead, like housing.

Others realize, like me, that you can easily get 90% of the way by doing 50% of the effort and not worrying about killing yourself for the rest. Light weaving is something I will never be able to do again. I’m nearly 60 years old and my hands hurt too much. Thank goodness for arcanist, though I sort of suck at that because I just don’t light attack enough to keep my stamina up and regenerate ultimate. I do better than most, though.

There are too many competing parties here. There are those who just want to quest, and there are those who say overland is too easy but apparently don’t want to take it to the next level and go into vet content, or want to do 120k dps wherever they go. These two will be difficult to reconcile.

I don’t know about a shake-up for combat. There are those who seem to like the weaving and some of the other classes, so let them have it. New players have pet sorc heavy attack builds and arcanist if they choose. I think some will just stay in overland, which is fine as long as we have it at its current difficulty. I fear any combat changes in the future based on those that have happened in the past. My Grand Overlord PvP stamplar just does daily crafting writs now, hoping some day she can shine again.

EDIT: typo

spartaxoxo · February 10

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Veteran content, as it seems, is designed with players in mind who have mastered the mechanics and can output at least 90k DPS on the Iron Atronach. As a result, most veteran content isn’t particularly challenging—it’s accessible to “reasonably experienced” players.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. 90k dps is "reasonably experienced"? 90k dps is, at best, the top 5% of players. I've been playing for more than 5 years and am happy when I can bash out more than 20k dps on the little skeleton dummy (I can't even kill the trial atronach; I run out of attention span and patience long before it's dead).

90k dps is a pipe dream for most of us, not "reasonably experienced."

(Well, except maybe on Arcanist, judging by the number of people who are saying Arcanist is over-tuned.)

Guarantee most Arcanist aren't hitting 90k either.

And you're right, that is the top of the playerbase. They literally had to cap the damage (ETA: of companions) to prevent them from replacing the majority of players. They gave them as much as they could without letting them be better than the average user.

AzuraFan · February 10

robwolf666 wrote: »

My gaming malaise isn't so much focused on ESO in particular but games in general, especially in recent years. This is because, for me at least, there seems to be a downward trend in the quality of games.

I can't think of a single game I've been interested in over the past few years, including AAA titles, that hasn't been poor quality in one way or another—whether it's released broken or so full of bugs and glitches it may as well have been broken. And yet they still expect us to pay £50-£60+ for it? Classic case of paying more for less.

Over the past few years I've played a few games I really enjoyed (Midnight Suns, the Thaumaturge, and Star Wars: Jedi Survivor being the best), but I know what you're saying. I splurged on quite a few games during the Steam Christmas sale, and one of them wouldn't even run - a popular late 2024 release. Other gamers ran into the same problem, so it wasn't just me. There were a couple of other games I played for a few hours and then put aside, because frankly they were boring or the writing was awful. Dragon Age: Veilguard got a lot of bad press, but it was polished out of the gate and ran fine.

At least ESO runs, for me, anyway. Yes, there are bugs, but I can play the game and I know exactly what I'm getting.

(I'm really hoping the rumours of an Oblivion remake are true. No evidence yet, but I'm hoping...)

reazea · February 10

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I am one of the old, experienced, and bored players. There are very few of us left in the game.

I can't get past this. I'm also am old experienced player and there is nothing out there that indicates there are very few of us left in the game. I feel that the opposite is true.

Experienced players don't struggle with vet DLC dungeons or vet trials. Virtually everything ZOS is doing lately, in addition to several in game trends, indicates there is a rapidly shrinking player base.

Grizzbeorn · February 10

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

why is this game still running?

Because it caters to many other playstyles beyond just yours.

sans-culottes · February 10

robwolf666 wrote: »

My gaming malaise isn't so much focused on ESO in particular but games in general, especially in recent years. This is because, for me at least, there seems to be a downward trend in the quality of games.

I can't think of a single game I've been interested in over the past few years, including AAA titles, that hasn't been poor quality in one way or another—whether it's released broken or so full of bugs and glitches it may as well have been broken. And yet they still expect us to pay £50-£60+ for it? Classic case of paying more for less.

The game that made me stop pre-ordering was Cyberpunk 2077. I'm sure everyone knows what a mess that was on release. Then Starfield was a big disappointment for a variety of reasons. Then they managed to break Fallout 4 with a Next Gen "upgrade." And let's not forget the parody—at least, I assume it's a parody—of DA Veilguard, plus a few others mixed in.

The only games I still have on my Xbox's internal drive are ESO and Skyrim—both Elder Scrolls, and both "old." But now that ESO seems to be moving away from zone/story expansions, I'm wondering if my time with it will diminish. The thing that kept me coming back, most of all, was the new zones and stories—yet they stop before finishing the map of Tamriel? Why not complete the remaining areas first, then do something different?

I'm finding that I spend more and more time on Skyrim, experimenting with the mods it has available (not the paid ones).

End of sermon.

There have been lots of great games over the past few years. Just off the top of my head: Baldur’s Gate III, Disco Elysium, V Rising, Alan Wake II, Diablo IV, Dragon’s Dogma 2, Elden Ring, Black Myth: Wukong, Persona 5, Balatro, and plenty of others.

Dragon Age was disappointing, but the online hate’s more due to reactionary attitudes toward its flawed but well-intentioned content. The real issue’s that Dragon Age has been in identity crisis since, oh, Dragon Age 2?

PS. @OP, while I agree with many things you said, I should note that I disagree on the combat system. Aside from an aging engine and often dubious writing, the spammy and imprecise combat system is one of the things that holds back ESO. This is, in particular, due to the animation canceling gimmick that ZOS eventually ended up endorsing as intended gameplay. Yuck. This has objectively messed with my hands worse than piano, typing, phones, and almost 30 years (yikes!) of the Diablo series.

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

why is this game still running?

Because it caters to many other playstyles beyond just yours.

For sure. As I often tell people, I can want changes in something I like while still liking it. ESO’s kept me around precisely because of this approach.

Parasaurolophus · February 15

amig186 wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Veteran content, as it seems, is designed with players in mind who have mastered the mechanics and can output at least 90k DPS on the Iron Atronach. As a result, most veteran content isn’t particularly challenging—it’s accessible to “reasonably experienced” players.

Am I missing something? It's not challenging as a direct result of being targeted at players who have mastered the mechanics and do top dps?

I mean 90k dps on Iron Atronach.

Arcturus · February 16

The fact that 90k DPS is unattainable for most players does not necessarily mean it is difficult to achieve. It is not. Rather, many players simply do not make the effort, which is perfectly acceptable if their primary activity is casually exploring the overworld.

spartaxoxo · February 16

Arcturus wrote: »

The fact that 90k DPS is unattainable for most players does not necessarily mean it is difficult to achieve. It is not. Rather, many players simply do not make the effort, which is perfectly acceptable if their primary activity is casually exploring the overworld.

It is difficult to achieve. The devs have talked in the past about how players hit a wall in terms of higher DPS output. And they created mythic gear and changed the game significantly specifically to make the gap easier to close

katanagirl1 · February 17

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arcturus wrote: »

The fact that 90k DPS is unattainable for most players does not necessarily mean it is difficult to achieve. It is not. Rather, many players simply do not make the effort, which is perfectly acceptable if their primary activity is casually exploring the overworld.

It is difficult to achieve. The devs have talked in the past about how players hit a wall in terms of higher DPS output. And they created mythic gear and changed the game significantly specifically to make the gap easier to close

Yeah, count me in on that one. Took me years to learn how to do only a half decent job of it. No one describes how crucial the timing of the light attack in the weaving is. They just say do a light attack in between skills. I’m now too old to be able to do it anymore.

True there are some who just don’t care about improving their dps, but to say everyone is just lazy is inaccurate.

SeaGtGruff · February 17

reazea wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I am one of the old, experienced, and bored players. There are very few of us left in the game.

I can't get past this. I'm also am old experienced player and there is nothing out there that indicates there are very few of us left in the game. I feel that the opposite is true.

Experienced players don't struggle with vet DLC dungeons or vet trials. Virtually everything ZOS is doing lately, in addition to several in game trends, indicates there is a rapidly shrinking player base.

There are many kinds of experiences in this game, and many ways for players to be "experienced." Attributing other players' performance in vet DLC dungeons and vet trials to a lack of "experience" seems like too narrow of a view. I would rather chalk it up to a lack of "the right gear," which is something that some players don't put a huge priority on. To get "the right gear" one must generally use "decent" gear to clear dungeons and other group content-- especially vet content-- either to directly obtain highly-prized pieces of gear, or to obtain antiquity leads for fragments of highly-prized mythic items. Not everyone wants to grind vet content for day after day, sometimes for weeks or longer, just to finally get the specific BIS/META thingies that will let them increase their DPS to high enough levels to be able to clear vet content even quicker and more easily. Not having "the right gear" is not an indication that someone is "inexperienced." They may simply have much different priorities about which experiences they're interested in pursuing.