That can be frustrating, but just remember all good tanks were that person at once. I personally practice and learn mechanics beforehand, but you will have to be in the dungeon to actually know them properly. Tanking isn't easy. It takes a long time to get the gear, to level up the skill lines, and of course, to learn the mechanics. Lots of pressure. If you have tanked the dungeon before and know the mechanics, then I recommend teaching them. But overall I do agree it is frustrating.

Snipped for brevity

Taril wrote: »

No they weren't.

Every good tank was a new tank starting vet content for the first time at some point. Normal is largely way easier than vet and so people may not be prepared for the difficulty spike. You can't expect everyone to automatically know what they need to do in vet just because it's vet.

Taril wrote: »

LividSugars wrote: »

That can be frustrating, but just remember all good tanks were that person at once.

No they weren't.

Most good tanks actually prepare for content and will have at least the minimal requirements to perform when they head into new content.

If the case was this happened in normal dungeons and it was more on the tank being sloppy because they're new, then sure. It's a new tank trying to figure out the role. But in Vet content people need to be able to perform their role and a tank should at least have the survivability to get through encounters.

I understand what you're saying, but most tanks I've ever known never start out as a good tank. They have to be taught. Yes, you should be prepared for veteran content and should have the survivability. It's like equipping a taunt as a tank. I'm not disagreeing with that. You shouldn't necessarily go into a veteran dungeon without knowing the mechanics, but people do all the time. DPS does it just as much. Matter of fact, one of the tanks I play with, who is a fantastic tank now, did this. He went into the veteran depths of Malatar and got absolutely run through. He didn't really know the mechanics and was terrible, and that's okay, but it's this hard and difficult experience that got him into tanking. I'd rather have somebody queue for a veteran dungeon who wants to try and tank, who may not know the mechanics but has the willingness to learn.This is part of the reason why people don't want to tank in The Elder Scrolls Online. They have to learn somehow. Yes, it's better to be prepared, obviously, but some people don't have the means to be as prepared as the others. Not everyone is privileged to have friends who can teach them. My original point is that you want to be that person that can teach them instead of trashing on them and telling them that they suck and they should quit tanking.

LividSugars wrote: »

I'd rather have somebody queue for a veteran dungeon who wants to try and tank, who may not know the mechanics but has the willingness to learn.

The issue with this is:

1) Not all bad tanks are "Willing to learn". In fact, from my experience, the vast majority of bad tanks do not wish to learn, hence them being bad tanks in the first place. (It's also one of the primary reasons I became a tank main in the first place, because dealing with all the bad tanks who didn't want to learn got frustrating)

2) If someone is unprepared and literally cannot perform their task due to being undergeared and/or without the right skills. They might not have the capacity to learn because their build simply doesn't allow them to actually do anything even if they are learning the mechanics.

3) One has to consider all people involved in the scenario. 1 bad tank (Whether they wish to learn or not) who is literally incapable of performing their tank duties (Either because of skill or gear) is now ruining the experience of 3 other people whom are now stuck in a situation where they cannot progress because the tank is bad and cannot even replace them because finding another tank for a dungeon in progress is abysmal.

This sort of thing gets compounded when you factor in queue times. This bad tank who failed to perform and so the group disbanded... Can queue up and instantly get a new party. While the DPS that waited 40-60 minutes for that group have to wait another 40-60 minutes for a new one, punishing them even though they're the ones that were actually capable of performing the role they queued for.

LividSugars wrote: »

Yes, it's better to be prepared, obviously, but some people don't have the means to be as prepared as the others. Not everyone is privileged to have friends who can teach them.

If they're playing the game, that means they have access to the internet. One does not need friends when there's plenty of information available with a quick google search.

This information includes, how to gear, what skills are good, what all the mechanics of every single encounter in the entire game (Including trash mobs) actually are.

Yes, having friends can help (Or at least a guild) to put together runs where you can learn hands on without disrupting 3 random players if you cannot perform. But it isn't necessary to at least prepare for things.

LividSugars wrote: »

My original point is that you want to be that person that can teach them instead of trashing on them and telling them that they suck and they should quit tanking.

I don't recall the part where anyone suggested telling them they sucked and should quit tanking.

Most likely what occured is the tank couldn't perform and the group disbanded.

Could they have stayed and teach them how to tank? Possibly. If the issue was entirely based on the tanks skill and not rooted in their gear.

Is it everyone's job to teach everyone else how to play the game? No. In fact, many people get upset if you even try to help coach them (Especially DPS for some reason).

• Riding through Daggerfall on a Radiant mount only to get insulted and sometimes even threatened, because you are riding said mount.
  
• Searching over all of Glenumbra/Vvardenfell/Skyrim/Black Marsh...etc and all the Trade Wagons are empty (We need an Auction House)
  
• Having someone follow you from the forum to the game because they decided that you have angered them and now you must be stalked.
  
• The game booting you when you start a World Boss fight
  
• People who send you Blind Guild Invites: Seriously at lest text me asking if I want to join Your Guild...for all I know you just invited me to a guild that practices Cannibalism....or you belong to the Rotary club....or some other unspeakable horror
  

I’ll trade you, I love terrible runs, they’re entertaining and sometimes rewarding. 45 minutes queue for it sucks though.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Every good tank was a new tank starting vet content for the first time at some point.

Yes. And most good tanks prepared for it. They got up their survivability as much as possible. They might have even researched boss mechanics (Which don't differ a massive amount between normal/vet).

Just because someone is new to a difficulty mode doesn't excuse them for being poorly prepared for it.

I don't want to generalize but I see many younger gamers come into the MMORPG genre maybe after watching an anime and expecting it to be all cool and fun without putting any strategic effort.
Many youngsters come from games that don't require literal study before starting them. So, while I always check a video of a Dungeon before even considering stepping in, I get that a lot of players could be strangers to the fact they need to do preparation outside the game to not let down others in game.

Also... I usually check a Dungeon on YouTube the first time I want to do it, but if it happens that I have to run it after an amount of time I can find myself having forgotten everything. But I agree this should probably happen on Normal, which is more forgiving. Going blind in Veteran can ruin fun for everyone if it's not consensual by the entire group, so it's better to avoid it.

No offense intended, but I don’t know anyone who extensively studies ESO before playing. The game is designed as a relaxed, casual experience, with a few raids that see relatively low participation.

Personally, I’ve completed Trifectas, maxed out all my crafting skills, and finished nearly all the overland content, including main and side quests. Aside from PvP, I’ve enjoyed everything ESO has to offer—without needing any in-depth study. In fact, this is one of the most intuitive games I’ve ever played, and I wouldn’t consider myself a rocket scientist.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

• Riding through Daggerfall on a Radiant mount only to get insulted and sometimes even threatened, because you are riding said mount.
  

This reminds me of a time I was riding this mount near the Bank in Riften



Then some guy starts an argument about how my mount is unlorefriendly and how you would never see this in TES:V Skyrim.

madman65 wrote: »

Most new tanks HAVE NOT checked out the mechanics and how hard the bosses hit. If they don`t block, they die. Many times I have seen a tank throwing a shield up expecting to survive but only to die. I myself have been hit by some of the hardest hitting bosses, experience has made me adjust my tank and now I can pretty much take a big hit. Yes I will block.

not vet but:

1. Some of DLC bosses use oblivion damage that ignores shields.
2. The UI update is delayed. If I'm to react, the health bar needs to instantly drop, not slowly moving down in a damned animation. This killed me many times.
3. Tanks can't just hold block most of time because they need to contribute the damage and heal themselves.

I failed Scriveners twice this morning due to bad tanks and overall bad groups. We didn't make it past the first boss, this was on normal. That was disappointing.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Every good tank was a new tank starting vet content for the first time at some point.

Yes. And most good tanks prepared for it. They got up their survivability as much as possible. They might have even researched boss mechanics (Which don't differ a massive amount between normal/vet).

Just because someone is new to a difficulty mode doesn't excuse them for being poorly prepared for it.

I don't want to generalize but I see many younger gamers come into the MMORPG genre maybe after watching an anime and expecting it to be all cool and fun without putting any strategic effort.
Many youngsters come from games that don't require literal study before starting them. So, while I always check a video of a Dungeon before even considering stepping in, I get that a lot of players could be strangers to the fact they need to do preparation outside the game to not let down others in game.

Also... I usually check a Dungeon on YouTube the first time I want to do it, but if it happens that I have to run it after an amount of time I can find myself having forgotten everything. But I agree this should probably happen on Normal, which is more forgiving. Going blind in Veteran can ruin fun for everyone if it's not consensual by the entire group, so it's better to avoid it.

No offense intended, but I don’t know anyone who extensively studies ESO before playing. The game is designed as a relaxed, casual experience, with a few raids that see relatively low participation.

Personally, I’ve completed Trifectas, maxed out all my crafting skills, and finished nearly all the overland content, including main and side quests. Aside from PvP, I’ve enjoyed everything ESO has to offer—without needing any in-depth study. In fact, this is one of the most intuitive games I’ve ever played, and I wouldn’t consider myself a rocket scientist.

No offense taken
I don't think I am the only one approaching an MMORPG studying every possible info available online before creating my first character. Something I would not do with any other genre, 'cause it's usually less needed.
If you look at ESO guides they tell you "best race" "best class" "best alliance" "best skills" "best gear" "best gold strat" "best store purchases" and all that stuff that if you know in advance can make your life easier. Going in blind can hold you back a lot. It's not like this with any game...

My point wanted to be that when you go with a random group you don't want to set expectations high because the variety of players is huge - there are daily trifectaers and people who just got in without any knowledge whatsoever of the genre, and between the two the difference is... Two worlds apart.

Weekend vet randoms can be really rough.

My questionable experience yesterday was presumably a new tank and healer who I give a break because they were low CP. The tank felt the need to constantly back away, effectively kiting the boss out of my AEs the entire run.

The healer didn't use hots or orbs. but I was fine with them.

The other DPS was an AvA Grand Overlord with more than 2k CP who decided to queue into a vet random with a PVP build, front barring a sword and shield and dealing about 10-15k dps outside of his execute beam.

The night before, it was a 5 wipe prog on the first boss of The Cauldron before I opted out. The tank seemed to think taunts were optional, and moving the boss constantly was the thing to do and for whatever reason. No orbs or hots from the healer. The other DPS decided to only heavy attack the boss instead of doing mechanics and rezzing.

I'll just add... as someone who used to enjoy tanking:

- Going from Normal to Vet is a huge jump in difficulty. with how fast bosses get burned down in normal, there were tons of times I literally never saw mechanics until I got to vet. My idea of 'have armor, block attacks, gather mobs, taunt" that worked in normal was nowhere near adequate for vet.
- Going from Base game Vet to DLC Vet- MASSIVE jump in difficulty. Even just to the "2" version of base game dungeons is a big jump. obviously some DLC dungeons arent too bad, but many are a lot more difficult with more intricate mechanics than base game.
- If it isnt a preformed group, the tank is more likely to show up with the wrong stuff. maybe they came in with buff sets for the 4 man they ran in ages ago. maybe they didnt slot any heals because tons of twilight spamming heavy attack sorcs and polar wind spamming wardens have kept them up without issue.
- Might have slapped on the tank icon while exploring menus as a new player, and never took it off, and actually has no idea they were even supposed to be a tank.

While I personally would prepare via research NOW, for vet stuff I havent tanked, when I was newer, I jumped straight in with confidence, not realizing the difficulty spikes of this game. can work with the player to try to help them, or go on your merry way trying a random again or pre forming.

DigiAngel wrote: »

Disappointment is also.....waiting 40 minutes in the queue, only to have the healer and the tank immediately leave due to what is most likely not a dungeon they were interested in. Happened just today.

Disappointment is making a duo ndsa for companion leveling. And some below level 50 joining with no companion, asking if you'll let them level with you. You say yes, even though they didn't follow the instructions for joining. And then they leave right before the final arena because they apparently got the level they wanted and don't care at all about you. So, you get kicked out and don't get to do the final arena either even though you were nice enough to let a random join.

Rule Number One: If you've got a tank, cuddle them. Don't [snip] on them if they're not perfect. Let them learn.

Should the tank know the mechanics of a dungeon and what to pay special attention to? Eventually, yes. But they have to get there somehow. And doing that by going into the dungeon and getting their behind whooped, is a valid way of learning.

[edited for profanity bypass]