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[FISHING] I'm going to get so much hate for this, but.
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wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I was asking for an optional change, though.
When it comes to optional content and changes very often the choice ZOS gives us is whether or not to engage in said content further. They very rarely give us a choice in how to engage in the mechanics they want to change.
If they decided to implement a more robust fishing mini game they wouldn't spend the time developing it just so only a few engage with it. So the old way would be scrapped.
2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »
I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I was asking for an optional change, though.
When it comes to optional content and changes very often the choice ZOS gives us is whether or not to engage in said content further. They very rarely give us a choice in how to engage in the mechanics they want to change.
If they decided to implement a more robust fishing mini game they wouldn't spend the time developing it just so only a few engage with it. So the old way would be scrapped.
Yup. This I think is also the cause of some players feeling like they have to vigorously argue in favor of changes they want to see. It's not about disliking the idea of an option but that they don't trust that it would get implemented by ZOS as an option. At least, that's how I feel.4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.PCNA9 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arizona_Steve wrote: »Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.
People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
You won't get any changes without having a discussion about what those changes might be. If you don't want to detail your thoughts on a discussion forum because other players might disagree with them then perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best way for you to air your views and a better way of making your point to ZOS might be by completing a /feedback submission direct to them. However, you would need to be detailed in your suggestions as simply telling them that their fishing system isn't fun and they should change it based on the way other games do it would be no more productive in /feedback than it is here because it wouldn't give them anything to go on.
What do you think about adding Stardew Valley-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding BDO-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Zelda-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Legend of the River King-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Valheim-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Dredge-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Web Fishing-like features to ESO?
The point is, there are many, many ways to do this and they're all more interesting than sitting and waiting, and I'll take any of them. I'm not asking for anything specific because ZOS no doubt knows the variety of possibilities, and it will likely not make a difference because what ZOS will probably end up doing is take my point as a request for change and choose their own path. I'm fine with that.
The reason I'm posting this is so that my desire for change is noted, but I am happy to see any kind of support for the idea.Edited by disky on January 26, 2025 1:20AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.
It's a live service game. They evolve to make players happy. That's the thing that makes players happy to spend more money on them single player games, the continuous development. A live service game that doesn't change is one that dies.4 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
Not true. With real-life fishing, there is a world of preparation, gear, and technique involved. It's far more complex than you're making it out to be.3 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arizona_Steve wrote: »Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.
People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
You won't get any changes without having a discussion about what those changes might be. If you don't want to detail your thoughts on a discussion forum because other players might disagree with them then perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best way for you to air your views and a better way of making your point to ZOS might be by completing a /feedback submission direct to them. However, you would need to be detailed in your suggestions as simply telling them that their fishing system isn't fun and they should change it based on the way other games do it would be no more productive in /feedback than it is here because it wouldn't give them anything to go on.
What do you think about adding Stardew Valley-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding BDO-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Zelda-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Legend of the River King-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Valheim-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Dredge-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Web Fishing-like features to ESO?
The point is, there are many, many ways to do this and they're all more interesting than sitting and waiting, and I'll take any of them. I'm not asking for anything specific because ZOS no doubt knows the variety of possibilities, and it will likely not make a difference because what ZOS will likely end up doing is take my point as a request for change and choose their own path. I'm fine with that.
The reason I'm posting this is so that my desire for change is noted, but I am happy to see any kind of support for the idea.
I don't play those games as they aren't TES. The ONLY games I have any interest in are Elder Scrolls.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I care, and you make some good points.PCNA2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
There are 3 games I currently play that have fishing.
The other two, once you've hooked a fish, have some kind of line tension/fish escape mechanic that requires the player to pay attention and hit buttons/mouse in some kind of system. I find it substantially more engaging than ESO fishing.
I enjoyed Final Fantasy XV's fishing and I don't usually like fishing in games. I don't know why that one was so good to me but I quite enjoyed it. Honestly, even something this basic would probably make it more interesting for me. But I'd honestly prefer they built onto the existing system not only because of how long we've had it but because I think they could do something pretty unique.
Apocrypha was a really fun surprise, for example.1 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.
If I want something to be better, why would I just accept that it is what it is and leave it alone? I'm in this forum because I like the game but I recognize that it could be better, and so I register that desire. I'm not just here to tell people their ideas are bad or win forum points, I legitimately want things to improve.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
Not true. With real-life fishing, there is a world of preparation, gear, and technique involved. It's far more complex than you're making it out to be.
I used to do a LOT of fishing and it wasn't complex. We brought our poles, some earthworms, lawn chairs and a cooler with cold drinks, then we did exactly what I described above.PCNA4 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arizona_Steve wrote: »Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.
People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
You won't get any changes without having a discussion about what those changes might be. If you don't want to detail your thoughts on a discussion forum because other players might disagree with them then perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best way for you to air your views and a better way of making your point to ZOS might be by completing a /feedback submission direct to them. However, you would need to be detailed in your suggestions as simply telling them that their fishing system isn't fun and they should change it based on the way other games do it would be no more productive in /feedback than it is here because it wouldn't give them anything to go on.
What do you think about adding Stardew Valley-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding BDO-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Zelda-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Legend of the River King-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Valheim-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Dredge-like features to ESO?
What do you think about adding Web Fishing-like features to ESO?
The point is, there are many, many ways to do this and they're all more interesting than sitting and waiting, and I'll take any of them. I'm not asking for anything specific because ZOS no doubt knows the variety of possibilities, and it will likely not make a difference because what ZOS will likely end up doing is take my point as a request for change and choose their own path. I'm fine with that.
The reason I'm posting this is so that my desire for change is noted, but I am happy to see any kind of support for the idea.
I don't play those games as they aren't TES. The ONLY games I have any interest in are Elder Scrolls.
That's fine! I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm only saying that this game could draw ideas from the plethora of other games which have engaging and fun mechanics. Games do this all the time, it's very common and normal.0 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
Not true. With real-life fishing, there is a world of preparation, gear, and technique involved. It's far more complex than you're making it out to be.
I used to do a LOT of fishing and it wasn't complex. We brought our poles, some earthworms, lawn chairs and a cooler with cold drinks, then we did exactly what I described above.
Right, but you didn't wait to press a button. You bought a rod, you bought supplies, you cast the line to a part of the water that you believed would be the best place to catch a fish. And when a fish bit the hook, you reeled it in, using a technique that prevented the fish from leaving the line.
Different types of fish can have vastly different requirements in every way. You may have been catching bass for instance, but you'd never catch a tuna using the same method.2 -
tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭The only thing which would make it somewhat fun for me if fishing would be akin harvesting resources with same speed (1 quick action for node with single cast for each and improved drops/more nodes), so I would do it alongside with resources farming. Anything that complicates it would make it even more tedious and boring than it already is.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.
If I want something to be better, why would I just accept that it is what it is and leave it alone? I'm in this forum because I like the game but I recognize that it could be better, and so I register that desire. I'm not just here to tell people their ideas are bad or win forum points, I legitimately want things to improve.
And many of us want this game to not be changed from something we have played and loved JUST AS IT IS for YEARS now. What some see as an improvement many of us see as destroying what we love about this game.PCNA3 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
Not true. With real-life fishing, there is a world of preparation, gear, and technique involved. It's far more complex than you're making it out to be.
Reel life fishing is only as complex as you want to make it. After all, fishing is different from catching.1 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.
If I want something to be better, why would I just accept that it is what it is and leave it alone? I'm in this forum because I like the game but I recognize that it could be better, and so I register that desire. I'm not just here to tell people their ideas are bad or win forum points, I legitimately want things to improve.
And many of us want this game to not be changed from something we have played and loved JUST AS IT IS for YEARS now. What some see as an improvement many of us see as destroying what we love about this game.
Again, I'm not asking you to accept a change, and I'm not trying to attack what you love. What I am doing is making note of the reality that fishing is a non-activity, and that I would like to see it improve, and that there are many, many different ways of doing that. Your distaste is noted, thank you for your feedback.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Where do we draw the line on changing every single system in this game so that no one ever feels bored by any activity ever again?
Not every player is ever going to enjoy every bit of content this game provides. We need to accept that and not expect everything to change into what we personally want it to be.
If I want something to be better, why would I just accept that it is what it is and leave it alone? I'm in this forum because I like the game but I recognize that it could be better, and so I register that desire. I'm not just here to tell people their ideas are bad or win forum points, I legitimately want things to improve.
And many of us want this game to not be changed from something we have played and loved JUST AS IT IS for YEARS now. What some see as an improvement many of us see as destroying what we love about this game.
How does a vague idea about an optional improvement turn into having ZOS destroy this aspect of the game?Edited by spartaxoxo on January 26, 2025 1:39AM4 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
Not true. With real-life fishing, there is a world of preparation, gear, and technique involved. It's far more complex than you're making it out to be.
Reel life fishing is only as complex as you want to make it. After all, fishing is different from catching.
True, I could throw a tennis ball into a lake and call it fishing, and never catch anything. But boy, am I fishing.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?PCNA3 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?
A lifetime of love for TES, and a love of this game, in general. It is possible to love an imperfect thing, and seek to improve upon it.3 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?
A lifetime of love for TES, and a love of this game, in general. It is possible to love an imperfect thing, and seek to improve upon it.
But your "improvements" (and those proposed over and over by others - the same few others over and over) are not going to be improvements for me and others.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?
A lifetime of love for TES, and a love of this game, in general. It is possible to love an imperfect thing, and seek to improve upon it.
Yup. I mostly love this game or I wouldn't be here. I especially love the lore. I've been playing Elder Scrolls games for most of my life. I like TES games. It doesn't mean I think their games are perfect though.
Fishing is something I think they could improve on. Criticism isn't hate. Criticism isn't an attack. The opposite of loving a game isn't critique, it's indifference.
Edited by spartaxoxo on January 26, 2025 2:02AM5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?
A lifetime of love for TES, and a love of this game, in general. It is possible to love an imperfect thing, and seek to improve upon it.
Nothing is perfect. But there seems to be a push to complicate every aspect of this game until there is nothing left for those that just want to have a relaxing time when they play.Edited by SilverBride on January 26, 2025 4:25AMPCNA4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »
When it comes to optional content and changes very often the choice ZOS gives us is whether or not to engage in said content further. They very rarely give us a choice in how to engage in the mechanics they want to change.
If they decided to implement a more robust fishing mini game they wouldn't spend the time developing it just so only a few engage with it. So the old way would be scrapped.
I tend to agree with this. I think ZOS will go all in on any changes to the fishing in this game.
Another thing to consider... If there is an optional path, then there is incentive to promote the lesser used path. Better rewards. Golden Pursuits. Events. Endeavors. FOMO works to try and push people off paths that they prefer and onto paths they do not. Bad feelings can get generated that way. This is one reason I am generally not in favor of optional game play elements.SilverBride wrote: »I used to do a LOT of fishing and it wasn't complex. We brought our poles, some earthworms, lawn chairs and a cooler with cold drinks, then we did exactly what I described above.
That pretty much sums up my childhood experience with fishing.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »This is what I don't understand. If someone finds so much of this game to be boring and lacking then what exactly is bringing them here instead of to a game that already meets their preferences?
A lifetime of love for TES, and a love of this game, in general. It is possible to love an imperfect thing, and seek to improve upon it.
But your "improvements" (and those proposed over and over by others - the same few others over and over) are not going to be improvements for me and others.
I've said repeatedly that I don't want to affect you in a negative way. That being said, fishing is not a minigame, it is the most obvious form of Skinner box that has ever been coded into a game. In case you aren't familiar with what a Skinner box is, it is a laboratory experiment in which subjects are presented with stimuli or reward, and over time they are observed to learn the necessary behavior to either receive the reward or avoid punishment. If a reward is presented when a button is pressed, the subject learns to press the button repeatedly, or how to prevent negative stimuli like shock or noise.
This kind of thing is common in MMOs, and there is no more blatant example of it than ESO fishing. Press button > receive reward. All I would like is something which at least obfuscates the process a bit more, because I'm not a rat in a cage and I like to use my head a little bit.2 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »
When it comes to optional content and changes very often the choice ZOS gives us is whether or not to engage in said content further. They very rarely give us a choice in how to engage in the mechanics they want to change.
If they decided to implement a more robust fishing mini game they wouldn't spend the time developing it just so only a few engage with it. So the old way would be scrapped.
I tend to agree with this. I think ZOS will go all in on any changes to the fishing in this game.
Another thing to consider... If there is an optional path, then there is incentive to promote the lesser used path. Better rewards. Golden Pursuits. Events. Endeavors. FOMO works to try and push people off paths that they prefer and onto paths they do not. Bad feelings can get generated that way. This is one reason I am generally not in favor of optional game play elements.SilverBride wrote: »I used to do a LOT of fishing and it wasn't complex. We brought our poles, some earthworms, lawn chairs and a cooler with cold drinks, then we did exactly what I described above.
That pretty much sums up my childhood experience with fishing.
4. "People will just do the easiest thing for the reward" - For reward-focused players, maybe. But I care about fun, and this is not really fun, it's pausing for a reward. There is nothing more Skinner box in this game than literally pressing a button to receive a reward. It's hideously plain.0 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.
If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here1 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So tired of seeing posts about sweeping changes to game systems that have been in place for 10 years, especially ones saying they are “too easy”. So many threads wanting to completely change overland, ToT, and now fishing to be more hardcore, somehow without ruining it for the rest of us with “toggles” for everything. I think more than one of those threads was from OP in fact.
I would much rather the dev time be used to give us new stuff instead.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA8 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭katanagirl1 wrote: »So tired of seeing posts about sweeping changes to game systems that have been in place for 10 years, especially ones saying they are “too easy”. So many threads wanting to completely change overland, ToT, and now fishing to be more hardcore, somehow without ruining it for the rest of us with “toggles” for everything. I think more than one of those threads was from OP in fact.
I would much rather the dev time be used to give us new stuff instead.
I don't need "hardcore" fishing, I would simply like something that isn't just "press button". Just because something has been a certain way for a long time, that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved, and I think that if the game doesn't take steps to evolve it will definitely not continue to remain popular. It's clear that ZOS understands this based on what was discussed in their letter, and I applaud that new energy. There is so much negativity with regard to anything new in this forum. It's stifling and I wish people were more positive.
I think the thread you're referring to was regarding massive/ultimate attack indicators (I remember your responses), and I stand by my defense of that idea. I think it still holds a lot of value. Now that you mention it, that thread is the very reason I wrote my OP for this one the way that I did. Oh, and I wrote one about holding/storing staves that popped off for a while which you may also have been quite negative about. I still don't understand why that one got so much hate.
OH! And also, yes, I want ToT NPC AI to be tougher on Expert because it's Expert and it makes sense for Expert to be challenging when compared to lower difficulties, so I made a thread about that. I'm sure you hated that one too.
Anyway, this is about fishing.Edited by disky on January 26, 2025 5:44AM0
This discussion has been closed.