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[FISHING] I'm going to get so much hate for this, but.
disky
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I know there are many people who like the way fishing works in this game, but with the event on, I would like to propose the idea that fishing is incredibly mindless and boring, and that some kind of update, any kind of update, would be nice. I could really see myself enjoying fishing if there were some element of thought put into it, but as it stands, you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button. That's it. Keep doing that until you get what you want and stop.
And listen, I'll take an optional change. If people want to maintain the status quo, that's fine with me, but I'll never, ever want to do something that just forces me to sit and wait for a button press. At least give me some element of challenge which creates a motivation to keep doing it. It doesn't have to be much, I've played a wide variety of fishing minigames that all do different things - the Stardew style, rhythm-based, directional, something more strategic which forces you to consider placement/time of day/bait types/rod/etc. - there are so many elements that could be implemented to make this feature more interesting and fun.
Let me pre-address the negative arguments -
1. "I like it the way it is now because [reason]" - Okay, let's make it optional. That said, you might find a change more enjoyable.
2. "Just do something else, this isn't for you" - But it could be. I like fishing minigames in general. I wouldn't even call this a minigame, honestly.
3. "This would be a waste of development time/money/resources" - This is the opinion of anyone who doesn't think a particular feature would suit them. It's subjective.
4. "People will just do the easiest thing for the reward" - For reward-focused players, maybe. But I care about fun, and this is not really fun, it's pausing for a reward. There is nothing more Skinner box in this game than literally pressing a button to receive a reward. It's hideously plain.
5. "Fishing is just supposed to be a thing you do to relax" - People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on January 27, 2025 10:03PM And listen, I'll take an optional change. If people want to maintain the status quo, that's fine with me, but I'll never, ever want to do something that just forces me to sit and wait for a button press. At least give me some element of challenge which creates a motivation to keep doing it. It doesn't have to be much, I've played a wide variety of fishing minigames that all do different things - the Stardew style, rhythm-based, directional, something more strategic which forces you to consider placement/time of day/bait types/rod/etc. - there are so many elements that could be implemented to make this feature more interesting and fun.
Let me pre-address the negative arguments -
1. "I like it the way it is now because [reason]" - Okay, let's make it optional. That said, you might find a change more enjoyable.
2. "Just do something else, this isn't for you" - But it could be. I like fishing minigames in general. I wouldn't even call this a minigame, honestly.
3. "This would be a waste of development time/money/resources" - This is the opinion of anyone who doesn't think a particular feature would suit them. It's subjective.
4. "People will just do the easiest thing for the reward" - For reward-focused players, maybe. But I care about fun, and this is not really fun, it's pausing for a reward. There is nothing more Skinner box in this game than literally pressing a button to receive a reward. It's hideously plain.
5. "Fishing is just supposed to be a thing you do to relax" - People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
9
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭6. "If you suggest a specific change then I'll happily discuss it." All you've done is say you don't like the existing system.18 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
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The only suggestion I saw was they could do something from other games?
Is there a specific idea you had in mind?5 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
The only suggestion I saw was they could do something from other games?
Is there a specific idea you had in mind?
My suggestion is to consider an approach, using whatever ideas they want to employ from the hundreds if not thousands of fishing minigames in the history of games. I can make a specific suggestion but the fact is that there is little point in doing so because it will never appear in the game exactly as I want it to be, ZOS will do what they want to do, and there are so many fun ways of improving upon fishing as it is now. It's pointless to provide a specific pitch for a feature like this, and even if I did, it would receive the same degree of negativity as "please find a way to make this more fun".
I have no doubt that ZOS could concoct a viable solution which works for ESO using the wealth of available prior examples, or try something new.Edited by disky on January 25, 2025 11:18PM1 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭
You've vaguely referenced some other systems.
That's about it.
You've not really put forth any specific changes or even detailed what these other systems even are.
Which is the thing. How are people supposed to discuss something when... There's nothing to discuss?
Like, okay, you don't like the fishing system and you've played different fishing systems... So... What? What were these other systems? Which one would you like to see in ESO? How would it function in ESO?
Without anything specific all there is to talk about is changing the fishing system *somehow* with no basis for the direction besides "Not what currently exists"9 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
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You've vaguely referenced some other systems.
That's about it.
You've not really put forth any specific changes or even detailed what these other systems even are.
Which is the thing. How are people supposed to discuss something when... There's nothing to discuss?
Like, okay, you don't like the fishing system and you've played different fishing systems... So... What? What were these other systems? Which one would you like to see in ESO? How would it function in ESO?
Without anything specific all there is to talk about is changing the fishing system *somehow* with no basis for the direction besides "Not what currently exists"
Sure there is. The point that fishing is mindless has been made, and ZOS is full of people who have played games before.
Let me ask you this: what do you think would happen in this forum if I said "Fishing should be like Stardew!" or "Fishing should be like Black Desert Online!"? People would shout it down just the same. The fact is that our plate is empty and there is a buffet in front of us, with all manner of implementations and ideas to choose from. ZOS will come up with something that suits them even if I provide an idea of my own. We all know this.2 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭These are my own personal thoughts about fishing, and I know others feel differently. I think fishing in any game I have ever played is the single most worst activity one could have to do, and there is nothing whatsoever they could do to make me like it more, and any complications added to it would simply make me like it less. Of course, any optional change is fine because I would not have to opt in. Case in point, Neverwinter used to have a fishing system much like ESO, and then they made it much much worse. Instead of one key press and the fish is ready to be caught, they changed it to at least two or three keys that you have to move based on some sort of balancing system to keep everything in the middle, and if it went too far one way all your effort was wasted. That added time before you actually caught a fish as well. They wanted to make it more interesting, but in my opinion, failed miserably, but of course, that’s because I don’t like fishing in any game
I’m saying all of this because today after two days of working on it I finally achieved Master Fisher so I can buy the boat that was locked behind the achievement! I had 10 years worth of bait saved in my ESO plus bag, just waiting for something to happen that would actually allow me to get the Angler achievements for each zone and subsequently Master Fisher, and what made it finally possible is them making fishing easier by curating the rare fish for this event. And instead of stopping like I should have, I decided to go to Deadlands next and I’m three fish away from getting the Deadlands Angler achievement so I can buy the sulfur pool, but I just couldn’t do a single other key press and actually had to lay down for awhile.
Again, I know this is all just me and what I like and don’t like about games, and other people like fishing, and other people would like it to be more complicated. But this is the point of view of someone who only fishes if they just have to to get something locked behind an achievement or otherwise advance something in a game, like fishing during New Life. There is literally nothing they could do to make fishing more interesting for me, and anything that complicates the system would make me hate it all the more. And once again, thank you so much to ZOS for curated fish during this event!Edited by Elvenheart on January 25, 2025 11:28PM9 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elvenheart wrote: »These are my own personal thoughts about fishing, and I know others feel differently. I think fishing in any game I have ever played is the single most worst activity one could have to do, and there is nothing whatsoever they could do to make me like it more, and any complications added to it would simply make me like it less. Of course, any optional change is fine because I would not have to opt in. Case in point, Neverwinter used to have a fishing system much like ESO, and then they made it much much worse. Instead of one key press and the fish is ready to be caught, they changed it to at least two or three keys that you have to move based on some sort of balancing system to keep everything in the middle, and if it went too far one way all your effort was wasted. That added time before you actually caught a fish as well. They wanted to make it more interesting, but in my opinion, failed miserably, but of course, that’s because I don’t like fishing in any game
I’m saying all of this because today after two days of working on it I finally achieved Master Fisher so I can buy the boat that was locked behind the achievement! I had 10 years worth of bait saved in my ESO plus bag, just waiting for something to happen that would actually allow me to get the Angler achievements for each zone and subsequently Master Fisher, and what made it finally possible is them making fishing easier by curating the rare fish for this event. And instead of stopping like I should have, I decided to go to Deadlands next andI’m three fish away from getting the Deadlands Angler achievement so I can buy the sulfur pool, but I just couldn’t do a single another key press and actually had to lay down for awhile.
Again, I know this is all just me and what I like and don’t like about games, and other people like fishing, and other people would like it to be more complicated. But this is the point of view of someone who only fishes if they just have to to get something locked behind an achievement or otherwise advance something in a game, like fishing during New Life. There is literally nothing they could do to make fishing more interesting for me, and anything that complicates the system would make me hate it all the more. And once again, thank you so much to ZOS for curated fish during this event!
Okay, so let's make it optional. I understand your point of view.0 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From the phrasing of the topic to the focus on other peoples expected objections rather than on the changes desired, this feels more like an invitation for argument. Nothing has really been suggested so there's nothing to really talk about.
I've always thought eso's fishing could be a little more interesting, perhaps involving a small skill line; a "guild" of sorts with some quests or dailies (ie: mages or fighters guild but for fishing); [**EDIT** sorry, got distracted and forgot to add - perhaps a small selection of "gear" like different fishing poles with some minor benefits]; and could benefit from some revamped drops. But I also like that it's a relaxing activity I can do that lets me stay in game but wind down from a tough trial or the like. So I wouldn't wanna see it made overly complex or challenging either. Beyond that, idk I don't care enough to put much more thought into it.Edited by valenwood_vegan on January 25, 2025 11:43PM7 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »From the phrasing of the topic to the focus on other peoples expected objections rather than on the changes desired, this feels more like an invitation for argument. Nothing has really been suggested so there's nothing to really talk about.
I've always thought eso's fishing could be a little more interesting, perhaps involving a small skill line; a "guild" of sorts with some quests or dailies (ie: mages or fighters guild but for fishing) and could benefit from some revamped drops. But I also like that it's a relaxing activity I can do that lets me stay in game but wind down from a tough trial or the like. So I wouldn't wanna see it made overly complex or challenging either. Beyond that, idk I don't care enough to put much more thought into it.
I'm not inviting argument, I'm expecting it because whenever I try to propose something that I truly believe would be a positive change, any kind of change no matter how insignificant, in this forum, I receive nothing but negative responses. I'm just used to it at this point, so I'm trying to pre-empt the arguments that I know will be coming. I wish it weren't the case, but look at the responses. Nothing positive or constructive. I find it exhausting, but I really want to see something good happen to fishing, so here I am.
I wouldn't mind any kind of change, honestly. Something to make it even a little bit more interesting. The actual activity is not an activity at all, as far as I'm concerned.Edited by disky on January 25, 2025 11:37PM2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
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I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....7 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
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I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I was asking for an optional change, though.1 -
oldbobdude✭✭✭✭✭Like they did for the far cry game series. Hunting and fishing are excellent in those games. For fishing you cast, wait for a nibble, hook the fish and then fight it as it runs deep, far, left/right, then land it. Sweet!1 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭oldbobdude wrote: »Like they did for the far cry game series. Hunting and fishing are excellent in those games. For fishing you cast, wait for a nibble, hook the fish and then fight it as it runs deep, far, left/right, then land it. Sweet!
I'd never expect anything so complex, but that does sound great.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
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I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I was asking for an optional change, though.
*sigh* Optional doesn't really fly here.oldbobdude wrote: »Like they did for the far cry game series. Hunting and fishing are excellent in those games. For fishing you cast, wait for a nibble, hook the fish and then fight it as it runs deep, far, left/right, then land it. Sweet!
Ugh. There's a reason I was absolutely thrilled when husband couldn't insist on fishing any more IRL.Edited by TaSheen on January 25, 2025 11:41PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
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I am just really tired of those who come here late and insist on changing the game in ways I don't see any need for. The game is perfect for me the way it is. When all y'all get it changed to your specs, it won't be the game I love and have had fun with for 7 years, so I will have lost my main escape from RL.
And as I said, no one will care, I understand that. So I don't know why I bother.
I was asking for an optional change, though.
*sigh* Optional doesn't really fly here.
What makes you think so? Just because it hasn't happened yet, that doesn't mean it can't happen.3 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭Let me ask you this: what do you think would happen in this forum if I said "Fishing should be like Stardew!" or "Fishing should be like Black Desert Online!"? People would shout it down just the same.
But you'd at least get discussion about the pros and cons of those systems. People would be able to disect them and say what things they do well and what things they do not so well.
Generic "Fishing sux!" doesn't give anyone any sort of content to discuss. People either go "No, I like this system" or "Yes, this system sucks" and that's the extent of discussion (Of which has occurred numerous times. There's been multiple "Fishing sux!" threads that get a handful of replies like mentioned and then die)
Bringing in tangible suggestions, or at least detailing interesting systems, will provide more to talk about and bring about a better idea of what things people like and what they don't like.The fact is that our plate is empty and there is a buffet in front of us, with all manner of implementations and ideas to choose from. ZOS will come up with something that suits them even if I provide an idea of my own. We all know this.
ZOS will likely do nothing if no tangible feedback of what they should be doing arises.
If left up to their own devices, ZOS is most likely going to either leave fishing the way it is, or double down onto this system in some way (Such as making it just like any other harvesting node where you just press a single button, wait 1-2 seconds (Depending on if you have the faster gathering CP node) and get your fish)
Without discussions of other systems, with details of those systems. How are they going to know what people would actually like?
Yes, you can say "I don't like this system" but ZOS will know that if they change the system, there will also be people who don't like that new system too. So it's not like just putting out there "I don't like this system" is weight enough for ZOS to actually act.
Even if suggestions don't get used exactly, they can still give ZOS inspiration and overall insight into the direction they should go, especially given the vast amount of variety that exists within the "Video game fishing" sphere of content, both in terms of side activities to full on games explicitly about fishing.2 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me ask you this: what do you think would happen in this forum if I said "Fishing should be like Stardew!" or "Fishing should be like Black Desert Online!"? People would shout it down just the same.
But you'd at least get discussion about the pros and cons of those systems. People would be able to disect them and say what things they do well and what things they do not so well.
Generic "Fishing sux!" doesn't give anyone any sort of content to discuss. People either go "No, I like this system" or "Yes, this system sucks" and that's the extent of discussion (Of which has occurred numerous times. There's been multiple "Fishing sux!" threads that get a handful of replies like mentioned and then die)
Bringing in tangible suggestions, or at least detailing interesting systems, will provide more to talk about and bring about a better idea of what things people like and what they don't like.The fact is that our plate is empty and there is a buffet in front of us, with all manner of implementations and ideas to choose from. ZOS will come up with something that suits them even if I provide an idea of my own. We all know this.
ZOS will likely do nothing if no tangible feedback of what they should be doing arises.
If left up to their own devices, ZOS is most likely going to either leave fishing the way it is, or double down onto this system in some way (Such as making it just like any other harvesting node where you just press a single button, wait 1-2 seconds (Depending on if you have the faster gathering CP node) and get your fish)
Without discussions of other systems, with details of those systems. How are they going to know what people would actually like?
Yes, you can say "I don't like this system" but ZOS will know that if they change the system, there will also be people who don't like that new system too. So it's not like just putting out there "I don't like this system" is weight enough for ZOS to actually act.
Even if suggestions don't get used exactly, they can still give ZOS inspiration and overall insight into the direction they should go, especially given the vast amount of variety that exists within the "Video game fishing" sphere of content, both in terms of side activities to full on games explicitly about fishing.
What's going to happen, no matter what I pitch, is negativity. I have experience with presenting detailed feedback on this forum multiple times, only to see an endless stream of negative criticism. And anyway, it is pointless to do so because we know ZOS will choose their own path. ZOS has so many courses of action in a feature like this and they know their game better than me, so the most important thing is that I petition for change. The only thing a real feature pitch would do in this venue is invite criticism, which is why I presented possible suggestions rather than a specific idea. I just want something, anything at all, which might make the activity more interesting to do.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus4 -
Arizona_Steve✭✭✭✭✭Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.Wannabe Thalmor - Altmer MagSorc8 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arizona_Steve wrote: »Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.
People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.1 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
This is actually... A really good idea...? I dunno, Infinite Archive has random optional extra doors that take you to mad escapades. That genuinely doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world for fishing. You hook some strange object and feel a little woozy and find yourself in some old dwemer glass library at the bottom of the ocean or whatever. A big one bites and pulls you out to sea. You can keep going for bonus points and try to hold on or let it go.Edited by Northwold on January 26, 2025 12:46AM4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
This is actually... A really good idea...? I dunno, Infinite Archive has random optional extra doors that take you to mad escapades. That genuinely doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world for fishing. You hook some strange object and feel a little woozy and find yourself in some old dwemer glass library at the bottom of the ocean or whatever.
I personally would never fish in this game again.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....8 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
This is actually... A really good idea...? I dunno, Infinite Archive has random optional extra doors that take you to mad escapades. That genuinely doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world for fishing. You hook some strange object and feel a little woozy and find yourself in some old dwemer glass library at the bottom of the ocean or whatever.
I personally would never fish in this game again.
I think on the optionality thing, while it's true that on the whole options haven't been ESO's strong point, they have implemented them properly in Infinite Archive. If something's easily avoidable I'm not sure it would change the character of the basic fishing experience.Edited by Northwold on January 26, 2025 12:50AM3 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
This is actually... A really good idea...? I dunno, Infinite Archive has random optional extra doors that take you to mad escapades. That genuinely doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world for fishing. You hook some strange object and feel a little woozy and find yourself in some old dwemer glass library at the bottom of the ocean or whatever. A big one bites and pulls you out to sea. You can keep going for bonus points and try to hold on or let it go.
I think it would be really fun! But...I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
This is actually... A really good idea...? I dunno, Infinite Archive has random optional extra doors that take you to mad escapades. That genuinely doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world for fishing. You hook some strange object and feel a little woozy and find yourself in some old dwemer glass library at the bottom of the ocean or whatever.
I personally would never fish in this game again.
Unless there's a way to prevent this kind of sentiment, I don't see it happening. Maybe if it's within a certain kind of context, it could be cool. Like a certain fishing-focused content extension?
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arizona_Steve wrote: »Sometimes the mindlessness of fishing is an effective counterpoint to fighting mobs and bosses.
People enjoy things in different ways. I am not interested in sitting back and waiting, I want something fun to do, and fishing could be really fun if there were substantial changes.
You won't get any changes without having a discussion about what those changes might be. If you don't want to detail your thoughts on a discussion forum because other players might disagree with them then perhaps a discussion forum isn't the best way for you to air your views and a better way of making your point to ZOS might be by completing a /feedback submission direct to them. However, you would need to be detailed in your suggestions as simply telling them that their fishing system isn't fun and they should change it based on the way other games do it would be no more productive in /feedback than it is here because it wouldn't give them anything to go on.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.PCNA8 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dunno.
Unless the fish leap out of the water and start a hard boss fight with the character fishing, I can't see how it can be less boring.
As for optional... I do think that people over estimate the effectiveness of such things in terms of being a balanced solution to a given problem.
That would actually be pretty fun. They could make it so you have to buy different fishing rod upgrades to enable these features to keep it optional. You can get different fun things based off using them.
E.G. The monster hunter rod enables the occasional boss fight. Beat the lurkers and other minions of Hermaeus Mora and you can get a currency you can use to buy fun things based off Mora's place as the Prince of Tides rather than the usual librarian stuff.
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kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »...you put the right kind of bait on the line, you cast the line, and then you wait to press a button.
That is pretty much how fishing works in the real world.
We select a bait and put it on the hook.
Then we cast the line into the water.
Then we wait until we hook a fish, and reel it in.
I don't know what else could even be done. The last thing we need are for fish to develop mechanics.
Some things are just slow and simple by their nature, and fishing is one of those.
There are 3 games I currently play that have fishing.
The other two, once you've hooked a fish, have some kind of line tension/fish escape mechanic that requires the player to pay attention and hit buttons/mouse in some kind of system. I find it substantially more engaging than ESO fishing.
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