Bash Sorc need to be addressed

StaticWave · January 22

I don't know if you've ever fought a bash Sorc but it's literally one of the most [snip] setups you can fight. It would be fine if the stats make sense but they don't. How is it that a build with 40k-42k HP, 40-45k resistances, 1.5-2k+ regen, and practically zero weapon damage is able to dish out 4k+ DPS vs a normal build, while also being giga tanky lol? It makes zero sense from a theory crafting standpoint and this is exacerbated by HP scaling Ward and Scribing. Scribing basically allows bash Sorcs to get more bash damage and stack Major Defile/Major Cowardice on top, making you deal even less damage to them or have less healing vs them, while HP scaling Ward puts another 10k shield on top of their 40-42k HP AND 40-45k resistances.

The only downside of this build is it lacks AoE potential which makes in nonappealing for Cyrodiil. Other than that, the build slaps and I don't think it's balanced whatsoever.

[Edit for minor bait.]

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · January 22

That sounds like an Oakensoul Aetherial Ascension bash build. You mentioned 4k dps but it's more like 5-6k dps on that build. It's decent sustained damage but actually fairly weak in terms of what's possible with a bash sorc.

I'd say the bash sorc is the strongest 1v1 dueler. They have the option of using Jerall Mountain, Snake in the Stars, Sload's, Draugrkin, Shattered Fate, Systres' Scowl, Veiled Heritance, Aetherial Ascension, 4pc Shell Splitter. All of those are great because Deadlands Demolisher is so powerful as a primary set.

Also the bash sorc has the best escape (Streak) and stuns (Streak + Rune Cage)

The bash sorc doesn't really need sustain and you can usually get away with just 1pc Magma + Dark Deal. Nor does a bash sorc need a defensive set when running Contingency mitigation. So you can build nearly full damage.

But it has drawbacks like you said. No AoE. No cross healing. No group buffs. Bash builds can't really 1vX either.

danko355 · January 22

I don’t get why all the hate towards sorcs? There are also bash arcanists, bash necros, I even saw bash dk. All of them have the same: incredible tankiness, sustain and single target damage. You just run and press 1 button or a mouse wheel, and you deal more damage than people having complex rotation and combos. Great balance indeed!

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · January 22

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get why all the hate towards sorcs? There are also bash arcanists, bash necros, I even saw bash dk. All of them have the same: incredible tankiness, sustain and single target damage. You just run and press 1 button or a mouse wheel, and you deal more damage than people having complex rotation and combos. Great balance indeed!

I've played bash builds on all classes and I can tell you that Bash Sorc is way ahead of the rest.

StaticWave · January 22

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

That sounds like an Oakensoul Aetherial Ascension bash build. You mentioned 4k dps but it's more like 5-6k dps on that build. It's decent sustained damage but actually fairly weak in terms of what's possible with a bash sorc.

I'd say the bash sorc is the strongest 1v1 dueler. They have the option of using Jerall Mountain, Snake in the Stars, Sload's, Draugrkin, Shattered Fate, Systres' Scowl, Veiled Heritance, Aetherial Ascension, 4pc Shell Splitter. All of those are great because Deadlands Demolisher is so powerful as a primary set.

Also the bash sorc has the best escape (Streak) and stuns (Streak + Rune Cage)

The bash sorc doesn't really need sustain and you can usually get away with just 1pc Magma + Dark Deal. Nor does a bash sorc need a defensive set when running Contingency mitigation. So you can build nearly full damage.

But it has drawbacks like you said. No AoE. No cross healing. No group buffs. Bash builds can't really 1vX either.

What makes it unable to 1vX?

Moonspawn · January 22

What is the stamina cost of bash when using a bash build?

moo_2021 · January 22

I don't know how to get that much regen together with high health, unless you use Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch that requires the very expensive Perfect Roe.

The tanky ones I saw are either DK or arcanist, and their sustain and total damage are not top.

If you stand still or walk slowly, it's not 4k DPS. A full cycle is 1.5k bashes * 3 + 1.5k light attack + 2k spammable = 5-8k dps if not crit. It's not a burst, not unpredictable, and can't break healing bots or other tanky guys alone. I had a few dueling situations and we either hit each other for minutes or I overspent stamina on pointless attacks and died.

Without a defensive set it's hard to survive initial encounter in BG, unless you build that tanky. There are very few melee players now and anyone rushing forward becomes the biggest target.

If you sacrifice sustain, it'd be difficult to chase enemies around.

If you're being chased by a melee player, where is your major expedition skill? stun or immobilize or snare? If not, Living Dark heals twice a second against bash, and Volatile Armor could really hurt.

BTW isn't the shield in scribing very cost ineffective? Why do people keep mentioning it? S&B shield is better and much cheaper.

Moonspawn wrote: »

What is the stamina cost of bash when using a bash build?

3 bashes per second = 1k stamina

StaticWave wrote: »

What makes it unable to 1vX?

There is no burst. To kill a regular 30k resist target, you must keep hitting it at melee range for 4-8 seconds without interruption, healing or buffing or doing anything else. Sorc can set up delayed burst but they're fairly weak due to not being able to build for weapon/spell damage.

A team of 4 are usually not stupid enough to allow you keeping hitting the same guy without any support, especially since you'd be the only one in front. Against newbies however...

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · January 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

What makes it unable to 1vX?

There is no burst. To kill a regular 30k resist target, you must keep hitting it at melee range for 4-8 seconds without interruption, healing or buffing or doing anything else. Sorc can set up delayed burst but they're fairly weak due to not being able to build for weapon/spell damage.

A team of 4 are usually not stupid enough to allow you keeping hitting the same guy without any support, especially since you'd be the only one in front. Against newbies however...

As soon as it turns into a 1v2 or greater then you need to start weaving Hardened Ward to stay alive. DPS drops off.

Bash sorc healing power is really bad due to low wd/sd. Hardened Ward only goes so far. Khajiit, Shadow, Order's Wrath is the best way to boost raw healing on a bash sorc but that's not the best damage setup.

Once you get into 1v3 scenario then it's basically impossible to 1vX because there's always some glass cannon NB or Sorc popping off while you're trying to brute force someone down.

Sustain is a serious issue in 1vX and damage is too low when running Wretched Vitality as a backbar set. Slotting a secondary set that gives sustain or mitigation only works when your opponents are easy to kill.

So I prefer to play with 2 damage sets and try to only fight 1 player at a time. Bash builds are also notorious for being obnoxious zerglings. Imaging trying to 1vX or XvX small scale and the zerg has a machine gun basher on you 🤣

moo_2021 · January 22

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get why all the hate towards sorcs? There are also bash arcanists, bash necros, I even saw bash dk. All of them have the same: incredible tankiness, sustain and single target damage. You just run and press 1 button or a mouse wheel, and you deal more damage than people having complex rotation and combos. Great balance indeed!

You can try to build one and see how it goes.

The sets are fairly cheap, all crafted & overland.

I only use it because it synchronizes with one bar playstyle.

xylena_lazarow · January 22

StaticWave wrote: »

How is it that a build with

Because Sorcs are fast and can teleport.

Bash builds on any other class are a meme. They spam at air. But Sorcs can hit you.

StaticWave · January 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

How is it that a build with

Because Sorcs are fast and can teleport.

Bash builds on any other class are a meme. They spam at air. But Sorcs can hit you.

That isn’t why lol, we both know that

moo_2021 · January 23

StaticWave wrote: »

That isn’t why lol, we both know that

hardened ward also costs a lot and its healing is useless since weapon damage is half the regular value.

the best shield is 1H shield charge. If I get screwed I charge at someone distant to escape.

moo_2021 · January 23

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

That sounds like an Oakensoul Aetherial Ascension bash build. You mentioned 4k dps but it's more like 5-6k dps on that build. It's decent sustained damage but actually fairly weak in terms of what's possible with a bash sorc.

Doesn't work. There isn't enough burst power in sorc after reduced weapon damage. An offensive set could at best add 10% to 20%, useless at breaking 40k hp tank with 50k resist.

DK works better due to corrosive armor boosting bash itself.