Fake DPS is just as bad as fake tanks, but worse, ZOS creates more easy and powerful sets or abilities to make it easier for these fake/bad players to get into the game, which essentially destroys the growth curve, and It ruined the PVP/PVE balance and caused many (I think) moderate players to complain that the meta was too powerful or that new sets had no effect on the end-game. (e.g. Tarnished nightmare, extremely powerful in PVP, but niche in PVE with no impact on end-game), and then these sets or abilities are often nerfed to the ground and forgotten by most people (e.g. Pyrebrand, Arctic Blast )

Maybe it's time to stop paying attention to these fake/bad players, because even though ZOS provides a lot of easy and powerful sets or skills, these players simply don't use them. Anyone who has encountered fake DPS knows that this type of people often likes to use bows and arrows to continuously light attack, use their pathetic toothpicks to acupuncture the BOSS, and have absolutely no intention of using any f**k damage skills on the BOSS.

ZOS should focus more on regular players with a "normal mentality" rather than fake/bad players.

For "Normal Difficulty" Dungeons (which is the difficulty most casual players choose, as well as when the player is farming or RND), it should be mandatory to give each position specific buffs, for example: Tank: Your attacks increase the target's hatred by 100 %, the damage you receive is reduced by 50%, and the damage you cause is reduced by 50%; DPS: your skill damage is increased by 50%; Treatment: the treatment caused is increased by 50%, and the teammates within 12 feet are treated for X points of health every 2 seconds .
This should solve the problem of fake characters, and allow developers to adjust the balance of skills and sets to the end-game difficulty (HM Trials, high-end PVP), or at least the medium level (such as veteran trials, medium PVP).

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Even funnier when you silently agree with the other group members to kick them before the last boss, swap to a proper tank build (or tank/healer depending on what the content demands) and 3-man the boss. That way they keep dying and they waste a whole run worth of time. The screenshots of the hate whispers I got using this method take up a good half of my "ESO highlights" folder.

Orbital78 wrote: »

Is there a single normal dungeon that cannot be tanked by a dps? So far I haven't found one. I started queuing my dps for normal dungeons that the addon toggles on based on missing stickerbook sets. I do this as dps, healer, or tank based on queue times. Often times I get nominated to tank, and even tanking on a dps with just a taunt I haven't had many issues. This included the two newest dungeons, seem quite face roll. The only one that surprised me a little bit was Moonhunter Keep, those armored direwolves hit harder than I expected but nothing I couldn't just block and heal through.

Often times I am tanking, doing 40-60% of the damage, all while also healing the group partially. You can't heal one shots or not doing some mechs obviously. I don't understand the issue.

2 that i can think of that ive had issues soloing on a dps are scriveners and earthen root enclave

the 2 bosses that have ramping dmg conal channel attacks are the problem points

companion tanks are all but useless on these bosses because they dont **** block the mechanic and just die, as a dps i dont have the health pool or resources to usually survive the channel easy (the bosses follow you if you dodge roll so you can avoid a few ticks but you will burn resources dodge rolling)

so far i havent had any luck attempting to solo these with different kinds of setups (healer companion + dps, tank companion + dps, trying to keep a tank companion alive with some support heals as a dps, etc), dont usually work well

outside of actual multi-person mechanics (lockdowns/levers) those are the ones ive had the most issues trying to get around

Orbital78 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

2 that i can think of that ive had issues soloing on a dps are scriveners and earthen root enclave

I was thinking more as a group, but Scrivener's doesn't seem like it would be an issue. I cannot remember if I have tanked it on my dps or not on normal. ERE the last boss I could see being a potential issue, couldn't using barrier just resolve that though? TBH ERE last boss is the only one I can really think of that could potentially be an issue. I did run into stamina issues on the last boss of Bal Sunnar, with the puke phase. I think had I not been lazy just popping a stam potion would have fixed it or using HP/stam food instead of mag. Sadly dark deal broke the block long enough to cause a puke.

I think I might be still missing those sets on alts, I'll give them a shot.

the bal sunnar conal doesnt really ramp in dmg as much as the ones from the last boss in ERE and the 2nd boss in scrivener (ozezan)

i was typically running this on my arcanist dps, and ultimate doesnt recharge fast enough to get sanctum of the abyssal sea up again before it does another channel, so i could survive the first channel, but not the next one

i would have to play a character that was more of a mix tank/dps instead of full on pure dps with 24k max hp

i know i absolutely can solo every dungeon on my tanky main character, but dealing about 10k dps (+ dps companion) does not make the dungeon go by fast lol, so i also try to solo dungeons running my pure dps arcanist with a tank companion, seeing how the companion holds up and such

Orbital78 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

2 that i can think of that ive had issues soloing on a dps are scriveners and earthen root enclave

I was thinking more as a group, but Scrivener's doesn't seem like it would be an issue. I cannot remember if I have tanked it on my dps or not on normal. ERE the last boss I could see being a potential issue, couldn't using barrier just resolve that though? TBH ERE last boss is the only one I can really think of that could potentially be an issue. I did run into stamina issues on the last boss of Bal Sunnar, with the puke phase. I think had I not been lazy just popping a stam potion would have fixed it or using HP/stam food instead of mag. Sadly dark deal broke the block long enough to cause a puke.

I think I might be still missing those sets on alts, I'll give them a shot.

Bal Sunnar wasn't a problem for me fake tanking on normal. ERE is the only one, and if I'd been fake tanking with friends a barrier there would have probably been sufficient. When I saw what dungeon I got for my random I stacked some shield skills on my backbar and I lived thru 80% of the cone. Fortunately he went into his charging the pillars mech /RP after each cone and I got rezzed then and never really lost control of the boss. I also did something like 70% of the damage.

sarahthes wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

2 that i can think of that ive had issues soloing on a dps are scriveners and earthen root enclave

I was thinking more as a group, but Scrivener's doesn't seem like it would be an issue. I cannot remember if I have tanked it on my dps or not on normal. ERE the last boss I could see being a potential issue, couldn't using barrier just resolve that though? TBH ERE last boss is the only one I can really think of that could potentially be an issue. I did run into stamina issues on the last boss of Bal Sunnar, with the puke phase. I think had I not been lazy just popping a stam potion would have fixed it or using HP/stam food instead of mag. Sadly dark deal broke the block long enough to cause a puke.

I think I might be still missing those sets on alts, I'll give them a shot.

Bal Sunnar wasn't a problem for me fake tanking on normal. ERE is the only one, and if I'd been fake tanking with friends a barrier there would have probably been sufficient. When I saw what dungeon I got for my random I stacked some shield skills on my backbar and I lived thru 80% of the cone. Fortunately he went into his charging the pillars mech /RP after each cone and I got rezzed then and never really lost control of the boss. I also did something like 70% of the damage.

yea Bal Sunnar wasn't much of an issue, I just needed to turn into the corner or manage stam better as I puked on the team which was bad. We didn't wipe but had a few deaths.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jordan_Black wrote: »

If you're a dps with a taunt and you don't die, you're not a fake tank, you're a real tank - you're doing the role. I do this in RNDs and base game DLCs, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it. What's annoying is people who q as tank and then don't bother to taunt. It's only polite to throw a taunt on your bar if you're qing as tank and at least taunt the bosses.

if you read the thread, those are not the players that people complain about

its the ones with no taunt 18k hp that just run through ignoring mobs until they get to the boss or some other blocker (door/levers/etc) pulling everyone ahead with the joining encounter in progress and not listening when people say they need to pick up quests (especially in older dungeons that have actual quest interaction steps in the dungeon)

Yes it those type of players queuing as tanks. While sometimes it is a player that ques as some other role, but most of the time they que as tanks. They que as tanks and get a quick pickup do to the lack of real tanks in the game.

I have multiple healers that each run a RND daily, at a minimum in at least one of a days RND the "tank" takes off running as soon as they enter the area. Lots of times the group has other players that are in the low teens and are trying to do the quests. I try to stay with the slowest member of the group. The join the boss fight pull is annoying for those doing quest.

I am not sure how this can be fixed.

Maybe some type of mechanic that forces all group members to be present before the boss areas can be accessed? but not something that would stop the solo of the dungeons, since a lot of players (including me) run solo dungeons at times.

sarahthes wrote: »

Fake tanks speed up the queue so you have a higher chance of actually getting to complete your dungeon for the day.

The vast majority of fake tanks are fine.

Changing how the queue works to enforce roles just to address the few bad fake tanks will cause more harm to the queue timer than good.

They probably are not thinking that far ahead. Maybe once consoles (everyone) has access to addons like code's combat alerts to help with blocking, dodging and mitigating mechs and heavy attacks it will improve the quality of players in queues. ZoS gave heavy attack builds and face roll arcanist and it still hasn't bridged the gap for many. Maybe they need to dumb things down some more.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Is there a single normal dungeon that cannot be tanked by a dps? So far I haven't found one.

2 that i can think of that ive had issues soloing on a dps are scriveners and earthen root enclave

the 2 bosses that have ramping dmg conal channel attacks are the problem points

I've done both multiple times with a glass cannon dps with a taunt after the tank bailed. I couldn't just hold block the entire time. I also slotted a damage shield and blocked as much as my stam would allow. It's really np. I've tanked every dlc normal with a glass cannon dps -- not because I fake tank, but because sometimes tanks bail.

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There's no such thing as Fake DPS. There's Not-Very-Good DPS, Underleveled/Under-Geared DPS, and New Player Learning the Game DPS. But there's no Fake DPS.

Fake DPS is just a term invented by fake tanks and fake healers to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to skip the queue. Faking DPS would be the equivalent of being next in line but deciding to go move to the back of the line just to wait longer.

This poster gets it. Fake tanks and fake healers are a selfish problem born out of people thinking “shorter queue for me, not for thee.” Someone who is queued as a dps and waits in the queue as a dps is being honest as a group member. Fake tanks and fake healers are inherently dishonest, and that is driving this problem.

So true! I allways tell this to my PUG-mates. Fake Tanks are DPS who queue as Tank to get faster into the dungeon.
I'm a Tank with DPS build to get faster out of the dungeon. I'm the opposite of a fake tank. But they dont listen and kick me anyway. :'(

Vaqual wrote: »

Oh is it already fake-tank-thread-time again? The year goes by so quickly.

I thought same thing. It's a serious problem, but never changes.

But, It's time to make "building tutorial contents" .

I do either healer or tank because my damage is always trash.
My baby tanks are built to tank but half the time haven't unlocked a taunt yet (rectified after the dungeon by running board and levelling up.)
My Healers tend to be templars. Argonians get a bonus to healing.
I don't have Death Eater yet (I don't like calling it Necromancer, it's not a necromancer.)
I just got warden, yet to make a toon of it. On Xbox I have a frost warden, PC none yet. I might make a vines-den on PC, Argonian of course.
But no matter my build, I tend to not surpass 25k dps at best. 11k average. My current healer/lighttank does 11.5k dps and 4khps.
My best tank so far is a Nightblade Thews Tank, running Inner Beast, Crushing Shock, Ice Staff, backbar Leeching Strikes, Pierce Armor, Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, sword and board. I think I normally run Lingering Flare for major protection as well but he's pretty beefy in PvE so I run something else. Also runs Radiant Magelight in PvP for immunity to the stun from sneak attacks.
Yet to get Syrabane's Ward, but I hope it'll help him block more.
Primary set Thews of the Harbinger.
Second set was Footmans, but it was negligible. Warrior Poet was ok. Adamant Lurker gave him survivability. Now got him on Ayleid Refuge which makes him nearly invulnerable.
His block is 84% so Syrabane's would max it. And grant him a little bonus to nearby allies. Unfortunately the recovery won't affect himself.
But, I need to wait for the next freeso week, because I can't access the areas for Syrabane's. Don't got the DLC.
All I can do is plan.
As for healer, I've got a good PvE build, but it's useless in PvP. Symbiosis, High Elf, Deliberation, and Light of Cryodiil are his primary. 2.5k hps and 50% resist damage. Absorption field is another 2.5k hps aoe and stuns ads, I use for reviving allies. Also runs Spirit Mastery for swifter ally reviving.
Shoulders I trade between Choketorn and Knight Slayer. Knight Slayer when I want to do more damage (solo). Chokethorn when I want to heal more (group).
I still haven't determined whether Esoteric or Stormweavers is better. Esotetic gives him better tankiness while Stormweavers allows him to dodge more and sprint longer. He needs to be able to live to heal allies after all. Without either he ends up as paste in the ground half the time. Dead healer isn't very effective.

I often say I’m lucky to have an awesome Guild where we just don’t have those kinds of arguments, so I wanted to see how bad it really was. I spent the entire weekend—Friday through Sunday—doing nothing but running dungeons. I ran normals and vets, starting out as DPS… but since the queue was taking forever, I switched to Tank.

Across the dozens of dungeons I ran, not once did I get admonished for being a "fake tank." In fact, I even announced it before we began:

"Hey guys, just so you know… I’m not an actual Tank."

The responses? Usually something like:

"And...?"

or

"That’s okay, I’m not really a Necromancer… I’m an accountant."

But mostly, it was just: "Cool, let’s go."

I mean, I’m still playing the daylights out of Dungeon Finder, and no one has called me out yet. I’m starting to wonder—is this more of a forum issue than a game issue?

I get that the "proper" setup is Tank, two DPS, and a Healer. But honestly, I’ve seen all sorts of combinations queue up. The dungeon gets done, people either go on their merry way or ask to queue up another one. The in-game community seems way more forgiving than the forum community on this.

And honestly, what can Zenimax even do? They’re never going to ban someone for queuing the “wrong” role—no MMO is that hardcore. I told myself I’d keep queuing until someone called me out… it still hasn’t happened.

Somebody stop me before I Tank again… bwahahahaha! (Kidding… probably.)

Orbital78 wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Across the dozens of dungeons I ran, not once did I get admonished for being a "fake tank." In fact, I even announced it before we began:

"Hey guys, just so you know… I’m not an actual Tank."

The responses? Usually something like:

"And...?"

or

"That’s okay, I’m not really a Necromancer… I’m an accountant."

But mostly, it was just: "Cool, let’s go."

In normals and base game vets a pure tank isn't totally needed if you're experienced. Most new players just don't want to have to deal with tons of mobs killing them. If you can control aggro and still do 30-60%+ of the group dps I am sure they would be thankful for the carry, as long as you aren't preventing them from doing the quests. I was doing Selenes Web since the pugs like to mess up the quest for me, and I didn't noticed till half way that I was on vet. I just ended up finishing it, it took longer than a normal but it wasn't that hard to solo.

When I see a "tank" in newer veteran DLC dungeons with 20k that is when I get ticked off. I've wasted too much time struggling through dungeons to get stuck on bosses because my character doesn't have the gear or setup to tank it for the person (and no one else does either).

Huh...well...I didn't Carry anyone...everyone got their quest done, so I don't know what to tell you...having the ability to queue for a Vet Dungeon with only 20k seems to me to be the actual issue....not those who are doing it if the game lets folks do a thing...they are going to do that thing....seems to me that is the Elephant in the room that no one is talking about...is Minimum requirements to queue for certain Dungeons, but the issue with that Requirements will slow an already slow queue even more...

Not an easy issue to solve .