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Questing in base game dungeons - possible QOL changes?

KaGaOri
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Tried to run base game dungeons with newly created characters to get them skill points and to level undaunted in group during last few weeks and it was pretty bad experience. Gave up and ended up soloing most of these out of frustration - yes they are easy and mostly soloable. On the other hand wish it was possible to do group content (even the easy one) in actual group. Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on this (including dev team, if we can reach them) and possible solutions. Maybe @ZOS_Kevin could pass the feedback upstairs, if we keep it on point and civil?

As it is now, it is nigh impossible to do quests in low-end dungeons by just running the dungeon. And I mean RUNNING - like going as fast as the game lets me, skipping through all dialogue and sticking to rest of group as close as possible. Right now there are dungeons where having group with you prevents you from either even starting the quest, or breaks progress half way through. This is design flaw with the content not "speedrunners x questers" - playing through group content in group should not break ability to get credit for playing through said content. Players should not need to solo group content, manually create specialized quest groups or pray no one in regular group does that one thing that would break the quest.

Few of the recently experienced offenders include:

Selene's web - if anyone touches any mob before NPCs finish their lenghty talk among themselves and quest is interacted with to start the quest, quest can't be started.
Crypt of Hearts I - if any of the players gets to first boss before all of the mobs in first room are dead, quest NPC finishes her monologue and then the quest is accepted, the quest can't be started because players get pulled by "joining encounter in progress" and even if the NPC could still be talked to after fight, there is no way back up to her.
Direfrost Keep - quest can fail in two places: 1) if pressure plates are activated by groupmembers and the gate is opened before Speaking stone in that room gets activated quest won't update further and 2) if anyone starts fight with Iceheart before Guardian of flame is defeated and quest NPC is talked to quest won't update anymore.
... and bassically any dungeon with "joining encaunter in progress" funcion, that also has points where player has to wait before talking to NPC to progress the quest.

Some of the ideas how to make questing more pleasant:

Make dungeon quests (weekly?) repeatable, reward players with extra transmutes and possibly extra dungeon set piece on repeated completion - with more people doing quests, less people will do stuff that break them. Downside is, that the quest still can be broken by somebody, it would be just less likely to happen.

After entering the dungeon with uncompleted quest, have the game ask if player wants the quest or not, the progress quest by going through dungeon (= make listening to NPC chit-chat and talking to quest NPCs optional). Downside is, that some of the quest flags and dialogue might have to be reworked. This is most player-friendly in my opinion, but might be harder to implement to the game.

Add barriers to the dungeon that won't let players continue until quest progress requirements are met - should be easy to implement and quest can't be broken by players anymore. Downside is, that it would be very annoying to anyone not on the quest and might brake speed run achievements. Not fan of this solution, but it is one of the possibilities.

Combination of the above?
  • Desiato
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    I think the big QOL ZOS could do for the problematic dungeons is streamline the quests as they are in DLC dungeons, with each step completed automatically so they can always be finished at the end.
    spending a year dead for tax reasons
  • sarahthes
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    Desiato wrote: »
    I think the big QOL ZOS could do for the problematic dungeons is streamline the quests as they are in DLC dungeons, with each step completed automatically so they can always be finished at the end.

    This would be a fantastic update.
  • Taril
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    The best solution would still be to create Solo Dungeons. With the difficulty reduced and mechanics adjusted so that someone can go in and easily do the dungeon solo in order to play through the quest.

    This would bypass any "Breaking" of the quests themselves as well as assisting players whom simply want to experience the actual dungeon (You know, actually reading NPC dialogue and exploring dialogue option, reading lorenotes, exploring the actual location etc)

    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.
  • KaGaOri
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    Taril wrote: »
    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.

    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.
  • AzuraFan
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    KaGaOri wrote: »
    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.

    Some of the NPCs in the DLC dungeons talk too long before you can turn in the quest. When I was doing the quests, I had whole groups drop on me while the final NPC was still blathering on about who knows what. Fortunately I was still able to turn in the quest, but it was nerve-wracking at times wondering if I'd be "removed from the instance" before I could do it. Apart from that, yeah, the DLC quests are easier than the base ones because there are no in-between steps.
  • Desiato
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    sarahthes wrote: »
    Desiato wrote: »
    I think the big QOL ZOS could do for the problematic dungeons is streamline the quests as they are in DLC dungeons, with each step completed automatically so they can always be finished at the end.

    This would be a fantastic update.

    And it seems compared to other suggestions, it would be so easy!

    I'm amazed they haven't done this already. They clearly recognized there was a problem early on because they began applying the kind of change I suggested with the later base game dungeons.

    Though other players are normally cool with it, it's still very stressful for me to worry about whether I will get an accommodating group and when they do accommodate me, I am stressed about slowing everyone else down. It's not fun to feel like one is keeping everyone else waiting.
    spending a year dead for tax reasons
  • Paramedicus
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    True. They should just add some invisible triggers that progress quest if someone goes tru them. No need to re-work old quests - would be something pretty easy to implement
  • Beilin_Balreis_Colcan
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    KaGaOri wrote: »
    Taril wrote: »
    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.

    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.
    The whole point of quests is that there is dialogue and a story/plot. If quests were automatically finished just by completing the dungeon (which I **think** is what you're proposing?), it would make quests pretty pointless (to me, anyway).
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • sshogrin
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    vsrs_au wrote: »
    KaGaOri wrote: »
    Taril wrote: »
    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.

    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.
    The whole point of quests is that there is dialogue and a story/plot. If quests were automatically finished just by completing the dungeon (which I **think** is what you're proposing?), it would make quests pretty pointless (to me, anyway).

    DLC dungeons might have dialogue, but you don't have to interact with a quest giver after every boss. You don't have to wait for an incredibly long dialogue, or wait for them to meander in, then talk for forever.
    Most of us have done these quests many times and know the dialogue by heart.
    When I run randoms with under CP toons, I usually ask in chat before we start running if they have the quest. I have no problem waiting for someone to do the quest since I've been screwed over many times by people having to just get to the end as fast as they can, even when I put in chat that I have the quest, people only care about themselves and just sprint to the end.
  • Beilin_Balreis_Colcan
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    sshogrin wrote: »
    vsrs_au wrote: »
    KaGaOri wrote: »
    Taril wrote: »
    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.

    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.
    The whole point of quests is that there is dialogue and a story/plot. If quests were automatically finished just by completing the dungeon (which I **think** is what you're proposing?), it would make quests pretty pointless (to me, anyway).

    DLC dungeons might have dialogue, but you don't have to interact with a quest giver after every boss. You don't have to wait for an incredibly long dialogue, or wait for them to meander in, then talk for forever.
    Most of us have done these quests many times and know the dialogue by heart.
    When I run randoms with under CP toons, I usually ask in chat before we start running if they have the quest. I have no problem waiting for someone to do the quest since I've been screwed over many times by people having to just get to the end as fast as they can, even when I put in chat that I have the quest, people only care about themselves and just sprint to the end.
    Yes, I understand once you've done the quest a few times, you might just want to skip it, but you didn't address my point: if dungeon quests were auto-skipped, then there's no point in having quests. Any auto-skip-quests-in-dungeons would have to be an optional setting.
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • Juomuuri
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    They should just change all base game dungeon quests into what they do with the DLCs - to be able to complete the quest by accepting it at the start and then just running through to the end. It should be optional to talk to the NPCs in the old quests! So if you wanna do a story run, it would still be possible. I also think they changed the "remove from instance" timer to be longer, precisely so that people can turn in the quests. I think the worst offender for having to wait to turn a quest in is in The Banished Cells I, it's pure torture haha.
    PC-EU (Steam) - CP 2300 - I was a tankblade main...
  • Taril
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    KaGaOri wrote: »
    Taril wrote: »
    Leaving Group Dungeons as Group Dungeons that you just go in with any random group and go punch stuff until they drop loot.

    The point is to make adjustments so we can go in dungeon with any random group, normaly run the dungeon ("punch stuff until it drops loot") and still be able to have quest completed just by finishing the dungeon. Going in group content for extra solo run to get the skill point seems kind of pointless. It is what lot of people do now anyway and it is annoying. Interestingly, this is how DLC dungeons work - grab quest - finish dungeon - turn in quest - get skill point. Nice and easy.

    The point should be to instead of addessing one singular issue, have them address several issues.

    Instead of only making a change so people who don't care about the quest and just want the completion reward when they hop in to a random dungeon they don't care about so speed through it like everyone else who doesn't care about the dungeon/quest.

    They could make a change that enables people to go do the quest easily IN ADDITION to also allowing people who want to actually experience things like the quest, like the area itself, like the extra notes lying around the place.

    Thus, someone who wants the skill point, can go in this shorter, faster, easier solo dungeon and go as fast as they like to finish the quest to get their skill point.

    Whilst also enabling people who want to actually spend time enjoying the dungeon to also have solo dungeons that enable them to take their time and go at their own pace.
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