New dungeon pack not for sale, 'ESO+ only' for a limited time. (updated again 07/03)

mrLuckyCat · January 13

I bought all chapters and dungeons pack in the game. I never subscribed to ESO+ and never will until :
- performances are flawless everywhere at all time (pve and pvp)
- class are well balanced among themselves and well equipped to face all challenges in the game
- rapid game breaking bug fix like the stuck in combat bug

As far as my understanding goes, the studio director letter doesn't mention pve performance, only pvp. So bar swap and abilities not firing will still be an issue when facing hader pve content.

I can deal with how the game function at the moment and the price it's a good deal for me.
I am just not interested to "reward" them with a sub because the quality is not there to deserve it.

ps : A reduced price for xbox user would be interesting too as the head company is the same now. We already pay a monthly subscription to play online. The only game I play online is ESO. Subing to ESO+ would be a 30$ a month.

FeedbackOnly · January 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

Ok, ESO has issues, but how in the world is requiring a subscription to play two dungeon with subpar gear pay to win?

Wait till we see the gear

sarahthes · January 13

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

Ok, ESO has issues, but how in the world is requiring a subscription to play two dungeon with subpar gear pay to win?

Wait till we see the gear

We have. It's not very good.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

Ok, ESO has issues, but how in the world is requiring a subscription to play two dungeon with subpar gear pay to win?

If past is prologue ZOS will put OP gear in the newest content. This is how they've always done it. It generates sales, especially to the PvP community who must have the latest greatest to keep their advantage.

Vonnegut2506 · January 13

They have already shown the sets; I don't think the most hyperbolic person on this forum would describe them as OP.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

They have already shown the sets; I don't think the most hyperbolic person on this forum would describe them as OP.

Sometimes it's very hard for anyone but the most experienced of players to be able to determine just how strong a set will or won't be. And you're only talking about the sets we know of for the next dlc release. We have no idea what the future will hold.

Vonnegut2506 · January 13

We don't even know if this new subscription required for dungeons will be a future trend, but to argue these two dungeons and the gear inside them being pay to win is a stretch of reality.

pecheckler · January 13

How is doing this even legal considering for 10 years you’ve been able to simply outright buy DLC content?

Thysbe · January 13

pecheckler wrote: »

How is doing this even legal considering for 10 years you’ve been able to simply outright buy DLC content?

As long as they are not applying it to content you have already bought, I have no doubts that this is fully legal.

Elsonso · January 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

We don't even know if this new subscription required for dungeons will be a future trend, but to argue these two dungeons and the gear inside them being pay to win is a stretch of reality.

Nod.

It is likely that ESO Plus will not be the only way to get access to the dungeons. They have not dropped the whole "Seasons" shoe, yet. We already know that what we get from "Seasons" is retained. A "Season" might end up being a "Crown Store Bundle" containing stuff released during "Season".

Ph1p · January 13

Frankly, the question of whether the sets in the new dungeons are powerful or not is a red herring and distracts from the actual point of this thread:

ZOS is changing the acquisition model for DLC dungeons for the first time. They're doing this with poor transparency and communication, while devaluing Crowns that people have bought in the past. They're trying to push ESO+ by taking opportunities away from non-subscribers instead of adding incremental value to subscriptions. In my opinion, that's wrong regardless of what the dungeon sets look like.

And while all this is not actually illegal, ZOS was obviously not comfortable enough to include this in their dungeon stream last week. In some companies I know, this would be called failing the "red face test": If you're too embarrassed to openly disclose something relevant to your customers or clients, then that's a good sign something's not right.

Orbital78 · January 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

They have already shown the sets; I don't think the most hyperbolic person on this forum would describe them as OP.

But it is a sign of the future, no? Are you saying the next DLC will have the same subpar sets, none will be REALLY good which allow you to brute force trifectas or pwn noobs in a single rotation?

Danikat · January 13

I wonder if this is a (somewhat misguided) attempt to defuse some of the negative reactions when they introduce a season pass in April.

One of the common complaints with season passes is that you have to pay for it before everything included is announced, so you don't know what you're paying for. I could see ZOS using the reaction to this model to present it as "we originally planned to hold back the purchase option until the end of the season when it's all been released and you've had a chance to play it via ESO+ but in response to your feedback (which is super-duper important to us) we changed that decision and now we're offering you the amazing opportunity to buy all the DLC in a season up front!"

SolarRune · January 13

Note the language on the press release:

'The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.'

This doesn't mean it is eso+ for ever, only at launch. I suspect they will become available for crowns at some point, much like skill styles were free at launch and later there were purchasable styles.

licenturion · January 13

SolarRune wrote: »

Note the language on the press release:

'The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.'

This doesn't mean it is eso+ for ever, only at launch. I suspect they will become available for crowns at some point, much like skill styles were free at launch and later there were purchasable styles.

The 'at launch' is the whole point this thread exists. This is totally the opposite of what they always have been saying and also not conform the information on the ESO+ page which says:

Non-ESO Plus™ Members: Purchase DLC game packs
ESO Plus™ Members: Full access to all DLC game packs
Access to DLC game packs available in the Crown Store (2024 Gold Road Chapter not included)
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/esoplus

Also:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/guides/esoplusguide
Note: Non-ESO Plus members can still gain access to the DLC game packs by purchasing them through the in-game Crown Store. An ESO Plus membership does not provide access to content that is not available in the in-game Crown Store, such as a current Chapter offering.

Official help articles:
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/26345
ESO Plus offers members exclusive in-game bonuses, a recurring allotment of crowns and access to all DLC game packs available in the Crown Store for the duration of membership. Certain features, such as new areas and dungeons, will be released as DLC game packs. You can either purchase them individually or have access to all DLC game packs by becoming an ESO Plus member.

@ZOS_Kevin : Can we please get some clarification what is up here because the latest blog post contradicts all other ESO FAQ and buyer guide pages. Cause as you can see by the length of this thread, this one really doesn't jive with a lot of people here and maybe the news posts was badly worded and we are angry for no reason

Reginald_leBlem · January 13

SolarRune wrote: »

Note the language on the press release:

'The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.'

This doesn't mean it is eso+ for ever, only at launch. I suspect they will become available for crowns at some point, much like skill styles were free at launch and later there were purchasable styles.

The only thing I would find acceptable is if it is eso+ for a little while then is free for EVERYONE. So everyone is able to claim it, for free, in the crown store whether they have eso+ or not after a little while.

Otherwise, it needs to be available for purchase at launch.

Orbital78 · January 13

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

Note the language on the press release:

'The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.'

This doesn't mean it is eso+ for ever, only at launch. I suspect they will become available for crowns at some point, much like skill styles were free at launch and later there were purchasable styles.

The only thing I would find acceptable is if it is eso+ for a little while then is free for EVERYONE. So everyone is able to claim it, for free, in the crown store whether they have eso+ or not after a little while.

Otherwise, it needs to be available for purchase at launch.

That isn't the way the ESO+ claims work, it would just have to be given away for free to be claimed without a paid ESO+. That was how the last dungeon pack worked, even if you had a free sub you wouldn't be able to claim it. Only paid subs get that perk.

licenturion · January 13

Orbital78 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

Note the language on the press release:

'The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.'

This doesn't mean it is eso+ for ever, only at launch. I suspect they will become available for crowns at some point, much like skill styles were free at launch and later there were purchasable styles.

The only thing I would find acceptable is if it is eso+ for a little while then is free for EVERYONE. So everyone is able to claim it, for free, in the crown store whether they have eso+ or not after a little while.

Otherwise, it needs to be available for purchase at launch.

That isn't the way the ESO+ claims work, it would just have to be given away for free to be claimed without a paid ESO+. That was how the last dungeon pack worked, even if you had a free sub you wouldn't be able to claim it. Only paid subs get that perk.

Last year there where 2 options if I remember correctly: claim to own the deluxe DLC pack for 2 weeks after release
if you have ESO+ or purchase the DLC for 1500 for the regular and more for deluxe. I can live with that. ESO subs get massive value as a reward while people like me can buy it as well day 1 and pay slightly more, but don’t get left behind with gameplay content that is not directly buyable setting a precedent for making ESO+ now effectively a form of pay2win.

HappyTheCamper · January 13

Not that this is a fix for the situation, but there is a chance they’ll give the dungeons out as Daily Log in Reward for one month.

Edit: and again, I’m not suggesting that as some amazing idea. Just pointing it out as an additional possibility.

fizl101 · January 13

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Not that this is a fix for the situation, but there is a chance they’ll give the dungeons out as Daily Log in Reward for one month.

Edit: and again, I’m not suggesting that as some amazing idea. Just pointing it out as an additional possibility.

This my thought, or a golden pursuit or something like that, so they don't want people to buy it for crowns and then feel short changed as it is being given away as a reward shortly after

Danikat · January 13

fizl101 wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Not that this is a fix for the situation, but there is a chance they’ll give the dungeons out as Daily Log in Reward for one month.

Edit: and again, I’m not suggesting that as some amazing idea. Just pointing it out as an additional possibility.

This my thought, or a golden pursuit or something like that, so they don't want people to buy it for crowns and then feel short changed as it is being given away as a reward shortly after

If they're planning to do that the sensible thing would have been to announce it that way.

Also ideally it would need to be the first day's login reward or unlockable within 1 day so people who want to do it with their group before the internet is flooded with guides are able to do so.

Destai · January 13

I’m a subscriber who usually subscribes 6 to 12 months at a time. So, I will likely not be affected by this change personally. But, I know several people who I regularly play with and they will be excluded from playing with me now. Ultimately, we tried the mandatory subscription route and it changed for a reason. I don’t think many people have an appetite for a subscription, especially on consoles. Regardless of the price and logic behind it, I don’t think this is a fair path to go down.

Vonnegut2506 · January 14

Orbital78 wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

They have already shown the sets; I don't think the most hyperbolic person on this forum would describe them as OP.

But it is a sign of the future, no? Are you saying the next DLC will have the same subpar sets, none will be REALLY good which allow you to brute force trifectas or pwn noobs in a single rotation?

Are you saying the next DLC will be ESO+ only, because I don't know enough about the future to make that sort of claim. Look, bottom line, ESO has enough real, current problems without inventing hypothetical ones to argue against.

Coerfroid · January 14

Intruducing early-access benefits for subscribers is a new feature, along many new features related to how content is offered now. There is very little information yet on how this will be handled in future, especially the foreshadowed "season content".
The scope of this thread shows that quite a number of individuals is concerned about missing out on the dungeons offered in early access, if they decide not to sub on early access release. The concerns of these individuals are maybe as fair as those voiced back then when the Q3 dungeon release and the Q4 zone DLC was cut back, leaving ESO+ customers suddenly with noticably less value for the subscription price. However, the seller makes the offer and the buyer decides to accept it or not.

The player base has very little information on the actual numbers of active subscriptions, numbers of active players without subscriptions and DLC sales. ZOS does have these numbers and one can safely assume that marketing decissions are based on these numbers and expected to be a continued success. So they probably will. Pleas note that "success" does not mean "everybody is happy", but "most paying customers are satisfied enough to keep the game profitable".
Should it turn out otherwise, strategies may change.

alpha_synuclein · January 14

Ph1p wrote: »

ZOS is changing the acquisition model for DLC dungeons for the first time. They're doing this with poor transparency and communication, while devaluing Crowns that people have bought in the past. They're trying to push ESO+ by taking opportunities away from non-subscribers instead of adding incremental value to subscriptions. In my opinion, that's wrong regardless of what the dungeon sets look like.

This. While this change will not affect me directly, it just rings bad.

Like with combat balancing, instead of upgrading the option that they like us to use, they're just choosing to take away options elsewhere to funnel us into doing whatever they want.

sans-culottes · January 14

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

This is “pay to win”?

spartaxoxo · January 14

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

They have already shown the sets; I don't think the most hyperbolic person on this forum would describe them as OP.

But it is a sign of the future, no? Are you saying the next DLC will have the same subpar sets, none will be REALLY good which allow you to brute force trifectas or pwn noobs in a single rotation?

Are you saying the next DLC will be ESO+ only, because I don't know enough about the future to make that sort of claim. Look, bottom line, ESO has enough real, current problems without inventing hypothetical ones to argue against.

There's no reason to believe it won't be since this is setting a new precedent. In general, the best way to tell what a company will price some future piece of content is looking at how they are pricing the current content. In the current year, they decided to change away from a pattern that they had established for what is it 9 years or what? That's huge and does not make me feel confident about future pricing.

spartaxoxo · January 14

rrbreezy wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

This is “pay to win”?

I can see the argument since crowns were allowed to be traded for coin.

XSTRONG · January 14

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

Some might consider releasing new sets behind a paywall are P2W but I think it would have to be some insane over powerd set or a new insanly strong glyph/buff for it to be considered p2w.

If you are able to buy the dlc with crowns it would still be p2w nothing diffrent in what way you are paying eso+ or crowns.

I guess Zos releasing this dlc for eso+ only are a exclusivity and the dlc will probably end up in crownstore update 46 or something.

sans-culottes · January 14

spartaxoxo wrote: »

rrbreezy wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos long time ago promised they would support both subscription and buy to play models.
People invested in the game beliving in it.

I thought eso was better than this. There's better ways to make money instead of pay to win model

This is “pay to win”?

I can see the argument since crowns were allowed to be traded for coin.

If everything is pay to win, then nothing is pay to win. I refer you to, e.g., Diablo Immortal. This isn’t comparable, nor is it an instance of “pay to win.”

MMORPGs have introduced new content for decades, and experimenting with content delivery models is par for the course. Attempting to include “extra value” in their optional subscription is, if not exactly consumer friendly, then certainly not predatory.