New dungeon pack not for sale, 'ESO+ only' for a limited time. (updated again 07/03)

licenturion · January 9

UPDATE 2 07/03

I just noticed they put this in the latest article about these dungeons:

Look for more details on additional ways to acquire Fallen Banners during the upcoming April ESO Direct.

So I guess they will probably introduce a 'buy year 2025 pass' with real money (not crowns) like chapters used to be where you get all the upcoming content packaged in 1 pack.

I assume a 'buy with crowns' will also be available down the line but I think they just want to prevent that people buy the dungeons with crowns day 1 and then feel ripped off when it is part of the 'year pass' if they already spend crowns on it. Or that people don't buy the year pass at all because they already have paid for a part of it.

This is all speculation of course, but seeing how ESO has been doing business and how other live service games do it, this makes the most sense to me.

UPDATE 1: ZOS updated the blog post of the DLC dungeons and confirmed that they will be for sale in the crown store when they launch on console. According to their wording, it seems this is a one-time anomaly due to shifting away from chapters. Thank you all for taking part of this discussion on multiple platforms and adding a lots of valuable arguments to the discussion, so that we hopefully we will be able to continue to enjoy the latest content together without a mandatory subscription. Many of us started playing ESO because it is an MMO without mandatory subscription to be able the access the latest and greatest and play together with our friends, guild mates and community. More official info on this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672037/u45-purchasing-clarification-recent-network-attacks#latest

Original post:
Just read the announcement on the official new page.

As mentioned above, if you wish to tackle these two new Alliance War-themed dungeons, you’ll need an active ESO Plus membership. The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.

This is a bad move and sets a really bad precedent for the upcoming seasonal stuff.

I will wait until they are for sale at some point or wait until there is another trial week. Or just wait out a year of content and grab everything with one month of ESO+. No need for buying crowns either in sale because DLC was my main use for crowns. It will be a cheap year for a patient gamer.

I wonder also if this will affect matchmaking times for group finder now that a part of the community is excluded.

What do other think of this?

sarahthes · January 9

One month of ESO+ is cheaper than buying the dungeons outright.

thegreeneso · January 9

I imagine most don't buy dungeon DLCs from crown store due to it being an extremely bad deal compared to ESO+, so I doubt matchmaking will be affected.

Ph1p · January 9

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

EDIT: Adding a few thoughts to common responses I've seen in this thread

"You can always wait. ZOS will release the DLC to the Crown Store eventually."
Of course I can wait. But this is group content and much of its entertainment value comes from running it with friends when it comes out, learning and progressing together. Now, that's impossible unless your entire group consists of ESO+ subscribers.

"ESO+ is just 10 bucks a month. What's the issue?"
Sure, but what if I already have paid for Crowns, expecting to use them to buy the DLC, as has been possible for every other dungeon pack in the history of ESO? Why should I have to pay additional money now for a subscription and even more Crowns that I don't need?

"Who buys dungeon DLCs with Crowns? You can just sub for a month and finish the content."
Not everyone wants to grind two dungeons in a short amount of time. Many people don't play multiple hours every day. Maybe I want to be able to join future guild or group runs. Perhaps I want to keep access to the dungeon for future pledges, events, leads, collectibles, and so forth.

"It's not fraudulent. Companies can and will change their pricing policies or marketing strategies."
I called this behavior anti-consumer that almost borders on being fraudulent, if we want to nitpick... But more importantly, it is a departure from 8 years of DLC policy, which they announce less than a month after a Crown sale and two months before release. If there's nothing to be ashamed of with this decision, why didn't they mention it during the reveal stream?

"If people don't like it, they don't have to buy it."
This kind of advice never made sense to me. If enough people listened to this and acted accordingly, it would literally harm the health and future of ESO. I really suggest people stop saying this, lest they actually get what they wish for.

Alaztor91 · January 9

I don't like it, but I guess they have to recoup some of the money lost on Chapter sales. I expect all future DLC from now on to require an active ESO+ sub to access and play while the current ''season'' is active. Then they will probably put it for sale at the Crown Store when the new ''season'' starts.

Ph1p · January 9

sarahthes wrote: »

One month of ESO+ is cheaper than buying the dungeons outright.

Not really an argument, since one month of ESO+ also only lets you play the dungeons for a month.

Soarora · January 9

I was wondering if someone was going to make a thread about this, I considered making one myself. I understand why they would do this, I do, but it feels a bit scummy and makes me sad because the friends I enjoy playing dungeons with absolutely will not get eso+, so even IF I cave and buy eso+, I can’t play GROUP CONTENT with my friends while the hype is still there.

sarahthes wrote: »

One month of ESO+ is cheaper than buying the dungeons outright.

We aren’t playing the dungeon for one month. If the dungeons are easy, then we could get tri in the month, but then we would have to buy it again for motif drop and then again for monster mask, and not be able to help anyone complete the dungeons at any point between those times, let alone if we want the dungeons just because we like them. If anything, having them be more expensive than buying eso+ on launch is more of a reason to let us buy them at launch.

sarahthes · January 9

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

I suspect the dungeons will be bundled with additional content later in this year's release cycle and that's why they're not available for crowns now.

sarahthes · January 9

Soarora wrote: »

I was wondering if someone was going to make a thread about this, I considered making one myself. I understand why they would do this, I do, but it feels a bit scummy and makes me sad because the friends I enjoy playing dungeons with absolutely will not get eso+, so even IF I cave and buy eso+, I can’t play GROUP CONTENT with my friends while the hype is still there.

sarahthes wrote: »

One month of ESO+ is cheaper than buying the dungeons outright.

We aren’t playing the dungeon for one month. If the dungeons are easy, then we could get tri in the month, but then we would have to buy it again for motif drop and then again for monster mask, and not be able to help anyone complete the dungeons at any point between those times, let alone if we want the dungeons just because we like them. If anything, having them be more expensive than buying eso+ on launch is more of a reason to let us buy them at launch.

It is designed to funnel people into paying for ESO+, for sure. I expect it'll be available to purchase later on, so you can always wait.

PureEnvelope35 · January 9

Guess the Russian homies aren't gonna group up for this one for ages, unless they let us gift ESO+ it feels like a weirdly dumb decision to make?

bmnoble · January 9

Doesn't surprise me, if they are not doing a chapter they are going to have a plan to make up that income in some way, no way most of these seasons content are going to be free at launch.

Looks to me like they are going with, content spread throughout the year with these seasons, to get more people to subscribe to ESO+ multiple times a year to get access to that new content or are hoping more people will get the yearly subscription to avoid what they imagine is a hassle for players of subscribing and unsubscribing.

Of course could still backfire spectacularly if they use that approach, with people waiting till the end of the year to subscribe for one month and do everything, assuming they don't have some fear of missing out built into the seasons.

licenturion · January 9

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I don't like it, but I guess they have to recoup some of the money lost on Chapter sales. I expect all future DLC from now on to require an active ESO+ sub to access and play while the current ''season'' is active. Then they will probably put it for sale at the Crown Store when the new ''season'' starts.

Well maybe they want to gather data as well.

But I don’t know if they will get more money this way.

If everything becomes an ESO+ exclusive I will just miss out on the content and play it during a trial. Or I will wait until there is a whole bunch of new content and I will focus on that while I get 1 month of ESO+, play the new stuff, get the companions and other stuff and cancel.

I also wouldn’t buy anymore crowns in sale either because my main crown purchases have always been DLC.

So that is less engagement with new content and less spending. This way of releasing content and no chapter is getting my hype level for ESO at a very low point for 2025. Luckily I also play a bunch of other games while I wait.

Just remember people: if you are not okay with this, vote with your wallet. I is the only powerful tool make then change their mind next time.

Arthtur · January 9

Well im rly, RLY unhappy about this. I understand that this is the way the want to get their money back that they lost with chapters but... i just cant. It feels awful. Why would i need ESO+ when i own all dlc? Like even more space isnt worth it as i dont play enough to make use of it. ESO+ for just 2 dungeons? rly?
If they gave those dungeons for free for buying a sub for a month, i would be perfectly fine. But this? Nah. And im not optimistic about what will happen with seasons...

LatentBuzzard · January 9

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

Get used to it. With the move from Chapters to Seasons, ZOS will need to make up for the money they'll no longer be receiving from selling the big chapter updates. The most obvious way of doing that is via subscriptions and you can expect a bigger drive from ZOS to lock things behind subscriptions to try and push more people into subscribing.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 9

Not a big deal for me, since it says "at launch", so it will be available later. The problem however is this:

Lets say, they will introduce some meta/broken PvP or end game PvE gear or gear that is just... plain better. You can't buy it. If you want to be competative - you will want that DAY ONE. So, you need ESO+. So um... hello to all those people who unsusbribed beacsue they were unhappy with perfoermace or balance or nerfs or whatever.

So, once you buy ESO+, you will get craft bag... and other things that will mess up all your inventory management & interrupt how you play the game in other means (like housing furniture limit etc). If you will not keep "iron discipline" (and chances are you will just make a simple mistake at some point) then once ESO+ ends - you are left screwed with all the mess... and you are quite literally "forced" to use ESO+ again to fix that...

It is just like the Star Wars meme: It is a TRAP ! ! !

Thankfully, nowadays I just login to do daily crafting & endeavours. End game is no longer my cup of tea. Especially when the game is this imbalanced and fomo driven more & more (and sometimes even arguably p2w). I may not fall for this trick... but some one out there will... which is bad

sarahthes · January 9

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Not a big deal for me, since it says "at launch", so it will be available later. The problem however is this:

Lets say, they will introduce some meta/broken PvP or end game PvE gear or gear that is just... plain better. You can't buy it. If you want to be competative - you will want that DAY ONE. So, you need ESO+. So um... hello to all those people who unsusbribed beacsue they were unhappy with perfoermace or balance or nerfs or whatever.

So, once you buy ESO+, you will get craft bag... and other things that will mess up all your inventory management & interrupt how you play the game in other means (like housing furniture limit etc). If you will not keep "iron discipline" (and chances are you will just make a simple mistake at some point) then once ESO+ ends - you are left screwed with all the mess... and you are quite literally "forced" to use ESO+ again to fix that...

It is just like the Star Wars meme

It is a TRAP ! ! !

Thankfully, nowadays I just login to do daily crafting & endeavours. End game is no longer my cup of tea. Especially when the game is this imbalanced and fomo driven more & more. I may not fall for this trick... but some one out there will... which is bad

There's no sets in the new dungeons that are better than the current meta. One of them is about the same as aegis caller and that's about it.

Soarora · January 9

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

Get used to it. With the move from Chapters to Seasons, ZOS will need to make up for the money they'll no longer be receiving from selling the big chapter updates. The most obvious way of doing that is via subscriptions and you can expect a bigger drive from ZOS to lock things behind subscriptions to try and push more people into subscribing.

While it’s the most obvious, I’d be a bit more fine with it if we could buy the DLC directly. This would cut out people paying gold for crowns already bought. Wouldn’t help me with my friends issue but at least I’d actually have the DLC. Right now, it’d be subscribe to eso+ only for dungeons that I’ll lose access to and then have to buy again. There’s no other rewards bundled with it because I don’t care about opening my craft bag or increased furnishing cap right now, or any of the other bonuses.

LatentBuzzard · January 9

sarahthes wrote: »

There's no sets in the new dungeons that are better than the current meta. One of them is about the same as aegis caller and that's about it.

And then in their first season they release a new meta antiquity whose leads are sourced from those dungeons. Or they release a new Golden Pursuit / event which requires access to those dungeons. It's not just the dungeon sets that they can use to try and get you in there.

ssewallb14_ESO · January 9

This nearly doubles the cost of the game for b2p players.

This seems like a catastrophically bad pivot for a 10 year old game with the player base dying off.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 9

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

As I just wrote in the official feedback thread, I think this almost borders on being fraudulent. It is a sudden change from long-established practice and it devalues the Crowns that people bought in the past. Someone who purchased Crowns in a recent sale could have reasonably assumed that they could use those to buy the next dungeon DLC, but that's moot now.

Is it actually illegal? Probably not. Is it anti-consumer behavior that will erode trust and lose goodwill with the community? Well, I'm really curious how the decision makers at ZOS would answer this question...

Get used to it. With the move from Chapters to Seasons, ZOS will need to make up for the money they'll no longer be receiving from selling the big chapter updates. The most obvious way of doing that is via subscriptions and you can expect a bigger drive from ZOS to lock things behind subscriptions to try and push more people into subscribing.

Maybe. But I do remember that this game, shortly after launch was very close to be dead. Originally it required sub to even play. So most people played for a bit, till they run out of sub and moved to play other TES games (hence why you don't see a lot players with Tiger Mount that was a loyalty reward).

Yes, the core player base for the most part comes from TES games. That is why Buy2Play model worked so well in ESO. A lot of players treat this as another single / co-op TES game and exapnsions are basically story DLC like Downguard for Skyrim.

So, the moment they will move even tiny inch away from bought & owned Chapters/DLCs & make subscription model not as "optional" as it is now - they are at huge risk. If too many people will feel like they are missing out - it may lead to a similar scenario that took place before One Tamriel update. If they did not moved away from sub only & made game Buy2play - it would have been dead long time ago.

Alaztor91 · January 9

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

And then in their first season they release a new meta antiquity whose leads are sourced from those dungeons. Or they release a new Golden Pursuit / event which requires access to those dungeons. It's not just the dungeon sets that they can use to try and get you in there.

I'm pretty much expecting them to do something like this, to reduce the number of people that will just wait until the final DLC of the current ''season'' is released, sub for a month and do all the content.

Sheezabeast · January 9

I've always been able to trade for crowns to get new dlc dungeons, I have every one so far....I guess I won't be getting these. And the idea of completely pay-gated gear really makes me nervous. Unless it's garbage, then it's just achievements/dyes being locked....

merevie · January 9

A large number of people are casual -a couple of hours here and there.
When they come in they want to do content with friends or their guild.
They'll come in, find out they must subscribe to join their mates, and log right out.

I played beta -then when the sub model was apparent, did not touch the game again until One Tam for exactly this reason.

I had New World -played 9 months (left ESO)-and due to the way they treated customers e.g. making all our old gear worthless -and their sub model -uninstalled. I believe about six million people uninstalled in a matter of months.

So Zos is either very, very confident in its market projections, or about to become bankrupt.

Currently I choose to have ESO+. It's a choice. I choose which chapters or DLC I want. That's okay with me.
Players need to be able to choose with crowns, gifting and play-to-earn rewards.

fizzylu · January 9

So the "optional" sub is becoming even less "optional"? How poetic.

SerafinaWaterstar · January 9

I have eso+ precisely so I don’t have to pay separately for dungeons.

Danikat · January 9

If it was any other type of DLC this would really bother me, but I don't play dungeons enough that it's worth buying more of them so it's currently not a problem.

I hope it is because it's going to be sold bundled with other stuff later on though, and not that they're assuming all the people who currently don't subscribe and do buy DLC can be pushed into subscribing by restricting access to DLC. That would have the opposite effect for me, I'm happy to pay for new content (I've got all the chapters and all the non-dungeon DLC) but I want to be able to play it on my schedule, not try to rush through it in a month or end up paying far more for permission to enter the maps just because I don't want to rush it.

bmnoble wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me, if they are not doing a chapter they are going to have a plan to make up that income in some way, no way most of these seasons content are going to be free at launch.

Looks to me like they are going with, content spread throughout the year with these seasons, to get more people to subscribe to ESO+ multiple times a year to get access to that new content or are hoping more people will get the yearly subscription to avoid what they imagine is a hassle for players of subscribing and unsubscribing.

Of course could still backfire spectacularly if they use that approach, with people waiting till the end of the year to subscribe for one month and do everything, assuming they don't have some fear of missing out built into the seasons.

No one said it should be free, they want the option to buy it directly instead of renting it via a subscription, like all the previous DLC.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 10

The more I think about it, the more unsettling it seems. They’re clearly trying to funnel players into recurring monthly subscriptions rather than offering one-time purchases. This likely means there won’t be enough content moving forward to justify standalone purchases.

It reeks of desperation and feels like a telltale sign of a game sliding into decline.

xclassgaming · January 10

I like this; and i hope this is how seasons are montersied i'd rather just pay my yearly eso+ alone; then my yearly eso+ and the chapter/season.

sarahthes · January 10

RomanRex wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more unsettling it seems. They’re clearly trying to funnel players into recurring monthly subscriptions rather than offering one-time purchases. This likely means there won’t be enough content moving forward to justify standalone purchases.

It reeks of desperation and feels like a telltale sign of a game sliding into decline.

I'm not sure it is a symptom of decline at all, especially given their main competitors are Subscribe to Play.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 10

Ph1p wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

One month of ESO+ is cheaper than buying the dungeons outright.

Not really an argument, since one month of ESO+ also only lets you play the dungeons for a month.

It is to a degree. I've never purchased High Isle or the current chapter because of the way the game has been going. Instead I wait until they become DLCs and pay for one month of ESO+ to see the content and call it done. So for myself and other players like me it is less expensive to pay for a month of ESO+ over buying the DLC.

fizzylu · January 10

sarahthes wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more unsettling it seems. They’re clearly trying to funnel players into recurring monthly subscriptions rather than offering one-time purchases. This likely means there won’t be enough content moving forward to justify standalone purchases.

It reeks of desperation and feels like a telltale sign of a game sliding into decline.

I'm not sure it is a symptom of decline at all, especially given their main competitors are Subscribe to Play.

Their main competitors also don't have the majority of rewards/things people would want to collect locked behind a cash shop and not only far more frequent, but bigger content releases as well (not to mention, better performance).

Also.... there's a reason why Zenimax had to make the choice to go away from a mandatory sub to begin with.