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Fake tanks
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wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's been a few times I was a fake tank. When the actual tank got disconnected and I had to tank the boss on my dual wield dps templar (which had no survivability), that was a bit of a mess but it was fun. Then after the boss and a few mobs been defeated the tank came back online and continued to defeat the veteran dungeon.1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Right behind the performance issues, this is one of the main problems ESO is facing.
Easy solution to fake tanks: when queueing as tank role your damage done is reduced by 90%, all your attacks on boss monsters automatically taunt, and the damage you take is increased by 50%.
This way they have to do what they signed up for.10 -
Koshka✭✭✭✭✭Right behind the performance issues, this is one of the main problems ESO is facing.
Easy solution to fake tanks: when queueing as tank role your damage done is reduced by 90%, all your attacks on boss monsters automatically taunt, and the damage you take is increased by 50%.
This way they have to do what they signed up for.
I don't think that fake role players necessarily care about their damage. I've seen many fakes (mostly healers though, as I rarely do normal dungeons), and oftentimes their damage is already not that great.
Auto-taunting also wouldn't really work, it would make taunts useless. I am not a tank main, but when I play as tank, I wanna be in control of what I'm doing.
And taking extra damage might make some dungeons impossible for pug groups. New dungeon bosses already hit like a ton of bricks, and 50% extra damage from enemies like Archdruid DEvyric would crush any newbie tank.
I think incentivizing veteran runs would be more productive if you want to get rid of op vets in normal. Adding perfected gear sets (so that spamming normal is not the best way of farming gear), better rewards for randoms etc.2 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Not to inflate my own ego, but I'm a good healer.
I have couple of veteran Trials under my belt.
None the less, it's frustrating when the boss chases me and I have to run around like a headless chicken.
If it's some Fungal Grotto or Elden Hollow it's not that big of a deal; those are baby's first dungeons.
A lot of DLC dungeons, on the other hand, require a proper tank to make the run smoother and less frustrating.
And for some reason, this happens to Scrivener's Hall most of the time - at least from my experience.
Second would be Bedlam Veil, but BV is my personal purgatory I spend weeks farming, so I know the ins and outs.
Perhaps I'm the most unlucky healer on a server and this kind of situation doesn't happen to anyone else.
I'm just talking out loud.
I bet some tanks have fake healer stories as well.
Is this on Normal or Vet? If its Vet, that is one of the main reasons I only do vet content with pre-made teams (at least Vet DLC dungeons). If its normal, why bother with a healer? Almost every normal dungeon, including the DLC dungeons can be burned with 4 DPS or 3 DPS and 1 Tank. Makes those farm runs go really fast.
If I'm running normal dungeons, IMO, the worst thing to run into is a fake DPS - A DPS who is a DPS in role only, and who is most certainly not contributing to the burn in any meaningful way.0 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's no such thing as Fake DPS. There's Not-Very-Good DPS, Underleveled/Under-Geared DPS, and New Player Learning the Game DPS. But there's no Fake DPS.
Fake DPS is just a term invented by fake tanks and fake healers to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to skip the queue. Faking DPS would be the equivalent of being next in line but deciding to go move to the back of the line just to wait longer.
Edited by DenverRalphy on January 1, 2025 5:08PM11 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭✭As a healer I just exit out on the first wipe when the tank didn't use any taunts & when asked either doesn't respond or has no desire to equip a taunt. eso is unique in that you don't really take that much of a penalty other than the standard 15 mins, but ONLY for that mode, you could do something else like tot/battlegrounds/join a trial group/etc in the mean time. it sucks but report fake take + leave is only option we really have because kicking them would never fill again. (dungeons that need filling should really be pushed to front of queue...)2 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a healer I just exit out on the first wipe when the tank didn't use any taunts & when asked either doesn't respond or has no desire to equip a taunt. eso is unique in that you don't really take that much of a penalty other than the standard 15 mins, but ONLY for that mode, you could do something else like tot/battlegrounds/join a trial group/etc in the mean time. it sucks but report fake take + leave is only option we really have because kicking them would never fill again. (dungeons that need filling should really be pushed to front of queue...)
There's another option, that I use. I just stop doing the job my chosen role requires until the tank decides to do theirs as well, or until they kick me, whichever comes first. I'd rather be votekicked out than leave voluntarily so that I can re-queue right away.
Edited by DenverRalphy on January 1, 2025 5:43PM2 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here -- because I have a tank --- and I have been accused of "fake tanking" when I could not keep aggro, because one of the DPS players was spamming a taunt skill.... pushing everything into taunt immunity.
There is only so much you can do, so I finally just quit running randoms.... I can EASILY set up enough "randoms" through my various guilds, so I can get all the transmutes I need that way. However, this has cost new players, that don't have that guild access, a tank that would do the job for them.....
Before you accuse someone of being a fake tank, I would suggest that you not make the role impossible, either through skill choice, or through running like a spaz monkey ahead of the tank. If the tank isn't there, then they cannot tank for you..... and a tank MUST have stamina in order to block the hits for you .....
Auldwulfe
3 -
MorganaLaVey✭✭✭✭
- a "Not-Very-Good DPS" would atleast try and have an offensive build with skills and take criticism not ramdom overland-gear with lightattack spamm.DenverRalphy wrote: »There's no such thing as Fake DPS. There's Not-Very-Good DPS, Underleveled/Under-Geared DPS, and New Player Learning the Game DPS. But there's no Fake DPS.
- Underleveled/Under-Geared ? with 160+ cp your def. not underleveld and under-geared is not a problem in a game where you can get crafted gear for free that is like 10% worse than top-gear.
- New Player Learning the Game DPS ? Maby... except most "fake-DD" are high cp with no interest in improving. They are part of the "i play how i want" crowd.
So what do we call a
- 160+cp player
- with a build that is not focused on offensive (fucus on nothing or even defense like 40k HP DD)
- and no interest in improving
Any evidence for that or just baseless accusation ? How about: "There's no Fake DPS" is just a phrase invented by fake DPS to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to get in to content that they are not one bit prepared for. ?DenverRalphy wrote: »Fake DPS is just a term invented by fake tanks and fake healers to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to skip the queue.
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.”- Friedrich Engels.
This assumes if a player is not build for DPS he is build for healing or tanking when infact he can be build for nothing.DenverRalphy wrote: »Faking DPS would be the equivalent of being next in line but deciding to go move to the back of the line just to wait longer.
Faking DPS is the equivalent of not being in line (because not qualified for any role) but deciding to go into the line anyway to get in to the dungeon without qualification.9 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here -- because I have a tank --- and I have been accused of "fake tanking" when I could not keep aggro, because one of the DPS players was spamming a taunt skill.... pushing everything into taunt immunity.
There is only so much you can do, so I finally just quit running randoms.... I can EASILY set up enough "randoms" through my various guilds, so I can get all the transmutes I need that way. However, this has cost new players, that don't have that guild access, a tank that would do the job for them.....
Before you accuse someone of being a fake tank, I would suggest that you not make the role impossible, either through skill choice, or through running like a spaz monkey ahead of the tank. If the tank isn't there, then they cannot tank for you..... and a tank MUST have stamina in order to block the hits for you .....
Auldwulfe
I'm trying my best to think of a taunt skill that people would spam for some reason.
Maybe Templar's Aedric Spear rush-and-taunt, or Ice Staff's Destructive Clutch morph that taunts.
The moment I see "taunt" in skills' description I don't even spend my skillpoints on them.
I honestly never had a situation like that, or if I did it escaped my notice.
Don't worry. I don't talk about situations where DPSes and tank take taunts from one another.
If a DPS or a healer grabs bosse's aggro from the tank, well, they get what they deserve.1 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here -- because I have a tank --- and I have been accused of "fake tanking" when I could not keep aggro, because one of the DPS players was spamming a taunt skill.... pushing everything into taunt immunity.
There is only so much you can do, so I finally just quit running randoms.... I can EASILY set up enough "randoms" through my various guilds, so I can get all the transmutes I need that way. However, this has cost new players, that don't have that guild access, a tank that would do the job for them.....
Before you accuse someone of being a fake tank, I would suggest that you not make the role impossible, either through skill choice, or through running like a spaz monkey ahead of the tank. If the tank isn't there, then they cannot tank for you..... and a tank MUST have stamina in order to block the hits for you .....
Auldwulfe
I'm trying my best to think of a taunt skill that people would spam for some reason.
Maybe Templar's Aedric Spear rush-and-taunt, or Ice Staff's Destructive Clutch morph that taunts.
The moment I see "taunt" in skills' description I don't even spend my skillpoints on them.
I honestly never had a situation like that, or if I did it escaped my notice.
Don't worry. I don't talk about situations where DPSes and tank take taunts from one another.
If a DPS or a healer grabs bosse's aggro from the tank, well, they get what they deserve.
Perhaps not a spammable, but I've seen my fair share of Arcanists who keep Runic Jolt/Sunder in their rotation. Drives me crazy, and that's while I'm the other DPS in the group and get miffed when I'm trying to position myself between tank and healer. Probably because the tooltip says it only taunts if it would not cause taunt immunity. Like that somehow gives them free reign, not realizing that it still cripples the Tank because since a 2nd person tossed a taunt into the mix they're guaranteed to be the person to cause the immunity.
Edited by DenverRalphy on January 1, 2025 11:09PM1 -
Adremal✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Well, it's kinda funny when they die
Even funnier when you silently agree with the other group members to kick them before the last boss, swap to a proper tank build (or tank/healer depending on what the content demands) and 3-man the boss. That way they keep dying and they waste a whole run worth of time. The screenshots of the hate whispers I got using this method take up a good half of my "ESO highlights" folder.2 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've tanked every normal with a glass cannon dps that slotted a taunt. So if you're in this position, try slotting inner fire and just block and dodge as needed. It's really not that difficult.
I would rather have a fake tank than a 50k hp tank in a normal or one who thinks it's a good idea to keep the group in combat constantly by running to the next pull before we finish the one we're on.
Edited by Desiato on January 2, 2025 1:04AMspending a year dead for tax reasons2 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Well, it's kinda funny when they die
Even funnier when you silently agree with the other group members to kick them before the last boss, swap to a proper tank build (or tank/healer depending on what the content demands) and 3-man the boss. That way they keep dying and they waste a whole run worth of time. The screenshots of the hate whispers I got using this method take up a good half of my "ESO highlights" folder.
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BioBitter100 wrote: »For me personally a tank that doesn´t taunt is not a fake tank, that´s just someone who either doesn´t know better or doesn´t care. I have met both kinds of players many times. If they don´t know better try to explain, if they don´t care kick them. That´s how I see it.
I fake tank almost every dungeon I run these days but only when I know I can actually hold aggro, so I won´t fake tank for example vBC2 with hardmode or vDLC dungeons. But then I usually also have ~60% or more of DPS in the majority of groups, so there´s that.
Bro. With scribing i can literally tank on my templar dps. I have plenty when we had fake tanks exactly with that mentality who thought they could hold taunt without a taunt. Stop being lazy. If your gonna do that go get mag chains or inner fire which is accessible to absolutely everyone in 10 seconds and stop this oh ima light attack. Get out of here with that nonsense. Encouraging this behavior makes you the problem. Gratz0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My all time favourite fake dps: Oakensoul HA Arcanist
This guy managed about 5k in boss fights because hitting Beam was too hard.
Overall, I don't particularly care about fakes in normal. But a fake tank paired with a fake healer in vet dlc dungeons is something I struggle to compensate for as a dps.Edited by moderatelyfatman on January 2, 2025 4:50AM1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
1: The players usually signing up for the fake tank roles often claim to be godly DD players(they are not!) and pretend this makes the run go faster, with this suggestion there is no benefit for them to queue as a fake tank. The damage on these tank players does not matter either, they are supposed to take hits, not deal damage. (this can also easily be compensated by changing groupcompositions to add a third DD and make it five player groups)Right behind the performance issues, this is one of the main problems ESO is facing.
Easy solution to fake tanks: when queueing as tank role your damage done is reduced by 90%, all your attacks on boss monsters automatically taunt, and the damage you take is increased by 50%.
This way they have to do what they signed up for.
1: I don't think that fake role players necessarily care about their damage. I've seen many fakes (mostly healers though, as I rarely do normal dungeons), and oftentimes their damage is already not that great.
2: Auto-taunting also wouldn't really work, it would make taunts useless. I am not a tank main, but when I play as tank, I wanna be in control of what I'm doing.
3: And taking extra damage might make some dungeons impossible for pug groups. New dungeon bosses already hit like a ton of bricks, and 50% extra damage from enemies like Archdruid DEvyric would crush any newbie tank.
I think incentivizing veteran runs would be more productive if you want to get rid of op vets in normal. Adding perfected gear sets (so that spamming normal is not the best way of farming gear), better rewards for randoms etc.
2: Not auto-taunting... only auto-taunting bosses and only for those queue'd as tank role. This is the very minimum expected from any tank, which is holding the boss(es). Keep in mind, we are not talking about real tanks, but fake tanks! Real tanks will taunt the bosses anyways.
3: Not true, as this extra damage taken is only for the player in the tank role. This would enforce they actually spec as a tank, and are able to take some hits. If you are in tank gear, 50% extra damage won't even be felt. Only fake tanks would actually feel this. Players who have the intention to tank but are not fully geared yet, will barely notice this either.
So the idea stands.Edited by Sarannah on January 2, 2025 12:09PM0 -
BananaBender✭✭✭✭✭
1: The players usually signing up for the fake tank roles often claim to be godly DD players(they are not!) and pretend this makes the run go faster, with this suggestion there is no benefit for them to queue as a fake tank. The damage on these tank players does not matter either, they are supposed to take hits, not deal damage. (this can also easily be compensated by changing groupcompositions to add a third DD and make it five player groups)Right behind the performance issues, this is one of the main problems ESO is facing.
Easy solution to fake tanks: when queueing as tank role your damage done is reduced by 90%, all your attacks on boss monsters automatically taunt, and the damage you take is increased by 50%.
This way they have to do what they signed up for.
1: I don't think that fake role players necessarily care about their damage. I've seen many fakes (mostly healers though, as I rarely do normal dungeons), and oftentimes their damage is already not that great.
2: Auto-taunting also wouldn't really work, it would make taunts useless. I am not a tank main, but when I play as tank, I wanna be in control of what I'm doing.
3: And taking extra damage might make some dungeons impossible for pug groups. New dungeon bosses already hit like a ton of bricks, and 50% extra damage from enemies like Archdruid DEvyric would crush any newbie tank.
I think incentivizing veteran runs would be more productive if you want to get rid of op vets in normal. Adding perfected gear sets (so that spamming normal is not the best way of farming gear), better rewards for randoms etc.
2: Not auto-taunting... only auto-taunting bosses and only for those queue'd as tank role. This is the very minimum expected from any tank, which is holding the boss(es). Keep in mind, we are not talking about real tanks, but fake tanks! Real tanks will taunt the bosses anyways.
3: Not true, as this extra damage taken is only for the player in the tank role. This would enforce they actually spec as a tank, and are able to take some hits. If you are in tank gear, 50% extra damage won't even be felt. Only fake tanks would actually feel this. Players who have the intention to tank but are not fully geared yet, will barely notice this either.
So the idea stands.
The problem is that ZoS has put in every incentive for players to speedrun normal dungeons. Transmutes are pretty much the only currency that has any value and for some reason they decided to make normal dungeons the only way to effectively farm them. This does come at a cost of making the dungeons worse for newer and slower players, but blaming people who just want to get the dungeon over with is just fighting the symptoms, not the sickness. The sickness being here that ZoS is forcibly merging new and casual players with the fastest way to farm the most important end game currency.
This change would just make it miserable to tank normals tbh. Because you don't need to be an actual tank to actually tank them. All you need is a taunt or chains and that is it. Not everyone has even that and it does suck, I agree. But just handicapping an entire role to be just to stand around, since they would pretty much have nothing else to do is not the way to go. Just to drive my point home, here is how I would bypass this feature if it were implemented: Que in a group with my alt who has the tank role → I play the dungeon and the "tank" is just afk. If the "tank" gets kicked by the two other players, so be it, it wasn't doing anything anyway. And there we go, even worse dungeon experience for everyone involved.2 -
JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭
✭This eternal debate is still showing up after all these years?
I personally don't mind if a tank is a fake one, as long as it doesn't hinder the success of the run. But if we are in vet content, it'll likely be a problem.
And it's exactly the same for all the roles in a group. I can't remember how many times I've seen DDs in recent DLCs' vet dungeons, who brought a group DPS of 30-40k. Or healers who don't drop any healing.
The goofiest guy I met a few months ago was a DD with a name like "World Destroyer" or something badass like that, who was playing shield + mace and bringing 5-10k of DPS. The dude was around CP200. I still don't get why he was queuing for HL content.
It's as idiot as if you were going in Cyro or BG with 18k HP and 13k res. Just don't do it.
You are a low-tier tank? Please don't try HL group content.
You are a low-tier healer? Please don't try HL group content.
You are a low-tier DD? Please don't try HL group content.
For instance, I'm the sh*ttiest tank that exists myself, and guess what? I'm not tanking in HL content (yeah, I know, big brain)!
BE/FR l PC EU l CP2700
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
A little snail once told me there were no place for debate anymore.
Now, i'll simply MAKE FUN OF IT!4 -
JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Regarding my previous post, just look at the group DPS we had on first boss of Scrivener's fate...
Important: they didn't do the mechanics and were parsing the boss. 26k in one of the hardest vet dungeon... I was wearing a buff build (PP/SPC/Devyric). If we remove my DPS (15%) and tank's damage, it means both DDs were doing 20k together. 10k each.
Why would you queue in random vet dungeons if you have a potato DPS? And I've seen sooo many low CP players with a very good DPS... There is no excuse. Having a decent DPS is very easy on ESO in 2025.BE/FR l PC EU l CP2700
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
A little snail once told me there were no place for debate anymore.
Now, i'll simply MAKE FUN OF IT!6 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »There's no such thing as Fake DPS. There's Not-Very-Good DPS, Underleveled/Under-Geared DPS, and New Player Learning the Game DPS. But there's no Fake DPS.
Fake DPS is just a term invented by fake tanks and fake healers to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to skip the queue. Faking DPS would be the equivalent of being next in line but deciding to go move to the back of the line just to wait longer.
I see you’ve never accidentally queued as a DD on your PVE healer spec after leaving Cyrodiil (where you set your role as a damage dealer)… I’ve never left a dungeon so quickly or with as much embarrassment in all my life.
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forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Not to inflate my own ego, but I'm a good healer.
I have couple of veteran Trials under my belt.
None the less, it's frustrating when the boss chases me and I have to run around like a headless chicken.
If it's some Fungal Grotto or Elden Hollow it's not that big of a deal; those are baby's first dungeons.
A lot of DLC dungeons, on the other hand, require a proper tank to make the run smoother and less frustrating.
And for some reason, this happens to Scrivener's Hall most of the time - at least from my experience.
Second would be Bedlam Veil, but BV is my personal purgatory I spend weeks farming, so I know the ins and outs.
Perhaps I'm the most unlucky healer on a server and this kind of situation doesn't happen to anyone else.
I'm just talking out loud.
I bet some tanks have fake healer stories as well.
To be fair, healers aren’t even needed in 99% of normal and veteran dungeons—most groups are better off running an extra DPS to speed things up. But if you find fake tanking to be such a frustrating problem, maybe queue as a tank instead of a healer. At least then you'd have more control over the situation.2 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Not to inflate my own ego, but I'm a good healer.
I have couple of veteran Trials under my belt.
None the less, it's frustrating when the boss chases me and I have to run around like a headless chicken.
If it's some Fungal Grotto or Elden Hollow it's not that big of a deal; those are baby's first dungeons.
A lot of DLC dungeons, on the other hand, require a proper tank to make the run smoother and less frustrating.
And for some reason, this happens to Scrivener's Hall most of the time - at least from my experience.
Second would be Bedlam Veil, but BV is my personal purgatory I spend weeks farming, so I know the ins and outs.
Perhaps I'm the most unlucky healer on a server and this kind of situation doesn't happen to anyone else.
I'm just talking out loud.
I bet some tanks have fake healer stories as well.
To be fair, healers aren’t even needed in 99% of normal and veteran dungeons—most groups are better off running an extra DPS to speed things up. But if you find fake tanking to be such a frustrating problem, maybe queue as a tank instead of a healer. At least then you'd have more control over the situation.
Only when every player is high enough the CP trees to have all their passive resists and damage mitigation. RNDs can and will match you up with players from lvl 10 all the way up to CP3600. Many players cannot run normall dungeons without a dedicated tank and healer simply because they haven't built up the Level/CP/Gear yet.
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JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Not to inflate my own ego, but I'm a good healer.
I have couple of veteran Trials under my belt.
None the less, it's frustrating when the boss chases me and I have to run around like a headless chicken.
If it's some Fungal Grotto or Elden Hollow it's not that big of a deal; those are baby's first dungeons.
A lot of DLC dungeons, on the other hand, require a proper tank to make the run smoother and less frustrating.
And for some reason, this happens to Scrivener's Hall most of the time - at least from my experience.
Second would be Bedlam Veil, but BV is my personal purgatory I spend weeks farming, so I know the ins and outs.
Perhaps I'm the most unlucky healer on a server and this kind of situation doesn't happen to anyone else.
I'm just talking out loud.
I bet some tanks have fake healer stories as well.
To be fair, healers aren’t even needed in 99% of normal and veteran dungeons—most groups are better off running an extra DPS to speed things up. But if you find fake tanking to be such a frustrating problem, maybe queue as a tank instead of a healer. At least then you'd have more control over the situation.
In normal dungeons absolutely.
In normal DLC dungeons likely.
In vet dungeons maybe.
In vet DLC dungeons, certainly not, except if other group mates have a self heal, minimum resistance, know all mechs, and have enough CPs to get all their passives.
Also, a heal isn't just made to heal, but also to buff. A good healer with a good ROJO can bring more DPS than a third mid-tier DD. The heal will also bring you a better sustain, and some interesting debuff.
Just to show you, here are the buffs/debuffs I bring with my two main healers:
Edited by JiubLeRepenti on January 2, 2025 3:43PMBE/FR l PC EU l CP2700
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
A little snail once told me there were no place for debate anymore.
Now, i'll simply MAKE FUN OF IT!2 -
jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭- Not much you can do for pledge key grind other than lessen the grind.
- For gear farming the new issue is that nobody trades. This is partly due to the stickerbook, now people are extremely selfish and wont trade because they want every single gear drop. If a dungeon takes me 5 mins to do, I dont want a 10 min que for dps. Other games had different loot systems, but I doubt zos would ever make an overhaul like that now. The other option is to redistribute loot drops. Out of the 5 bosses in dungeons, only the final boss drops half of the loot pool. Maybe split up weapons to the other major bosses. Then gear on the remaining bosses.
Yes please... there are SO MANY dungeons (and trials) in the game now, that it is LONG past time to allow players to get more weapons than just one from a run.
Right now: For each of the sets in a dungeon, there are 12 kind of weapon (7 metal, 5 wood) plus shields, rings and amulets, 15 items that can only be dropped by the final boss... versus 7 kinds of item (7 armor pieces of only one type per set) that can be dropped by ALL of however many other bosses there are.
This is poor design.
I believe the reason given is that "if all the bosses could drop anything, and it was curated, then people would always drop after the first boss rather than go to the last one".
I believe this reason to be completely bogus: because *completing* the dungeon gives (a) a big gob of experience for a RND (and should give some, anyway, even if it wasn't a random choice), and (b) at least one per character per dungeon, is required for the skill point.
When there are as many dungeons as there are, having to do each one up to 45 times (15 times for each of the 3 sets) to "complete" the sticker book... for ALL of them? Is kind of absurdly grindy.
The trouble is, there's no *need* to trade the armor pieces, because those literally fill out in the first few runs of a dungeon... But the weapons, there are SO MANY that, every time you get a weapon, for those first 45 runs, it's new, and therefore must be kept for the sticker book, so you never end up trading it to somebody else. And by the time you've done 45 runs you're so thoroughly sick of that dungeon that you never want to do a 46th or later run and actually have an actual weapon to trade to somebody else... for what?
Also, Urgalag needs to get a friend to split the DLC dungeons with, for pledge purposes.Edited by jle30303 on January 2, 2025 5:21PM1 -
LootAllTheStuff✭✭✭✭✭As someone who's not delved into group PvE content much, I've been following this thread with interest. If I wanted to make a start on group dungeons, what would I need to avoid being a "fake tank"?
Not so much specific builds/gear, but the types of skills/pre-combat stats I'd be looking to reach through a combination of attributes, gear perks, and skills/passives: baseline health, resistances, maj/stam, damage? Also, are there classes with skill trees that make tanking easier/more intuitive? (I think I got the bit about having a taunt skill available!)
Right now my main is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Nightblade that I doubt I'd want to use for harder group PvE content (does OK in public dungeons and Craglorn group delves, still needs some focussing), then a recently level 50 Warden and a soon-to-be level 50 Templar (Sorc and DK also on the way; still trying to decide if I actually want to play an Arcanist). CP is >800 because of all the story content, so I have a lot of points to play with.
Any insights/advice would be appreciated!0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »There's no such thing as Fake DPS. There's Not-Very-Good DPS, Underleveled/Under-Geared DPS, and New Player Learning the Game DPS. But there's no Fake DPS.
Fake DPS is just a term invented by fake tanks and fake healers to deflect from the fact that they're faking their roles to skip the queue. Faking DPS would be the equivalent of being next in line but deciding to go move to the back of the line just to wait longer.
Hate to break it to you, there is. Its the PVPer who refuses to switch his or her build over for PVE while farming PVP gear. VMOS and Balorgh farmers are the primary example. Pre-nerf Azureblight farmers were another. Current Tarnished Nightmare farmers are the most recent example.
While they hardly every wipe a group (outside of VMOS), I would take a fake tank in a normal dungeon over one of these limp noodles any day as they unnecessarily and selfishly prolong runs. At least most fake tanks can put out mediocre DPS. We have the armory, its free and easy to use, yet there are still players who can't figure out that Wretched Vitality does nothing in PVE. And yes, as a tank, healer, or a real DD, its very easy to see who this player is.
I've found an effective way to combat these fakers is to not give them any gear at the end. Its why they are there, so why reward them4 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »As someone who's not delved into group PvE content much, I've been following this thread with interest. If I wanted to make a start on group dungeons, what would I need to avoid being a "fake tank"?
Not so much specific builds/gear, but the types of skills/pre-combat stats I'd be looking to reach through a combination of attributes, gear perks, and skills/passives: baseline health, resistances, maj/stam, damage? Also, are there classes with skill trees that make tanking easier/more intuitive? (I think I got the bit about having a taunt skill available!)
Right now my main is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Nightblade that I doubt I'd want to use for harder group PvE content (does OK in public dungeons and Craglorn group delves, still needs some focussing), then a recently level 50 Warden and a soon-to-be level 50 Templar (Sorc and DK also on the way; still trying to decide if I actually want to play an Arcanist). CP is >800 because of all the story content, so I have a lot of points to play with.
Any insights/advice would be appreciated!
Be a real tank. You can be awful, terrible, a noob, etc. But as long as you are trying to tank, you will be supported. A fake tank is someone who does not taunt, usually kites the bosses, and dies frequently.
Go to The Tank Club. They have an excellent guide on setting up a beginner build and the basics of tanking.
As for your classes, Warden is a very good tank class and one easy to learn on. Nightblade tanks are excellent, but only once you know what you are doing. DK is the best tank class. Templar is the hardest, some may even say the worst. But you can tank with any class.
Best way to learn how to tank, learn the mechanics of the trial/dungeon on your DD first. If you have questions when you get to harder content (i.e. vet DLC dungeons) consult a video or guide. And consider joining a PVE group content guild. Tanks usually love teaching others how to tank, and guilds LOVE tanks.4 -
Ishtarknows✭✭✭✭✭
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I think incentivizing veteran runs would be more productive if you want to get rid of op vets in normal. Adding perfected gear sets (so that spamming normal is not the best way of farming gear), better rewards for randoms etc.
Right, so vet dungeons will be full of players who feel entitled to Perfected gear while they're unable to fulfill their role at vet level. It's bad enough already with people who put out 10k DPS running vet for their monster sets.
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