Sorc Healer?

Tkeela · May 2014

So I kind of solo'd my way through the levels with the intent of gearing up to be a Sorc healer in later groups, as playing that role was my intention, but with only running a few dungeons was wondering if I was deluding myself? Is a Sorc healer even viable for end-game? partially in ignorance and partially feeling mislead at char-gen. If I want to main a healer, do I need to roll a Templar?

BrassRazoo · May 2014

I don't see why not.
I'm a High Elf Sorcerer and have healed a lot, but only healed Veteran Grotto once (only done it once) and it worked fine.
Basically my advantage (High-Elf) comes from high magic and magic regen and also Dark Exchange.
Many people say Templar are the "best" as they have a dedicated Heal Skill line so I can't comment on that sorry.
But Sorcerers also have good buffs and crowd control so with weapon swapping you have a lot of options.

Crescent · May 2014

Yes, Sorc healer has magicka longevity. Nightblade is probably better, Templar has better spike healing, but Sorc healer has lasting power thanks to Dark Conversion and Spell Symmetry.

Drekor · May 2014

Tkeela wrote: »

So I kind of solo'd my way through the levels with the intent of gearing up to be a Sorc healer in later groups, as playing that role was my intention, but with only running a few dungeons was wondering if I was deluding myself? Is a Sorc healer even viable for end-game? partially in ignorance and partially feeling mislead at char-gen. If I want to main a healer, do I need to roll a Templar?

Do you need to reroll as a Templar? no. Sorc healers are viable in veteran dungeons and pvp.

However if you want to be the "best" healer then templar is by far the best choice. The other classes aren't even in the same league.

Sorc healers offer some really nice benefits:
+weapon damage - this is big since resto heals are based on weapon damage, very different from a NB who actually suffers from a penalty on weapon damage.

Magicka managment - unlike other classes you do not need to rely on attacking a target to regain magicka this can be extremely important especially in pvp. This also allows you some more interesting potion choices.

Armor bonus - other classes have it too but sorcs is the most convenient to use and doesn't really come with strings that will cause issues.

Dantonian_Rarstiana · May 2014

As a vr10 templar healer, I honestly cannot see how a sorc healer is viable...
I have never tanked or DPS'ed with a sorc healing, but just by looking at the abilities in the staff line I can't imagine its enough.
The resto staff abilities suck.

How would you keep a group up through the lich boss in VR sewers?
There is simply no way the staff alone can put out enough HPS to keep a group up, without someone else in the group helping.

Lets think about this rationally, without getting emotionally attached one way or the other.

The only thing sorcs can use is the resto staff (which templars also have), and it does not come with an ultimate.
Templars can do everything healing-wise that a sorc can, except they can also do much more.

As for mana-longevity, you are aware that power attacking with a resto staff gives 10% max magic right?
Even if I completely bottom out on mana, I can have it back up just as fast as a sorc who has to stop casting to channel some ability to give them less than half their mana bar by sacrificing their entire stamina bar.

If you are serious about healing, you need to be a templar. Yes you 'can' heal as a sorc. Just as well as a Dragon Knight can heal. Except with a little bit more mana regen.

Templars are constantly regenerating the HP and Stam of the entire group, and giving massive boosts of stam to the tank (via blessed shards) and some mana regen. They can put out more HPS than any other healer, and have an ultimate that is pretty much going to top everyone off regardless of whats happening, for zero mana.

There is literally nothing a sorc can do that a templar can't do, but there are huge dimensions of being a support class that sorcs simply cannot fulfill that templars can.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

Sorcerers lack any healing skills of their own. All the other classes have something they can bring IE Templar's Burst Heal, NB's Syphon, DK's group ward.

But the Restro Staff has the most efficient healing abilities and Sorcerer is good at buffing those abilities.

Since your using the Restro Staff Make sure to leave room for Healing Ward as that will be a HUGE lifesaving ability.

Making a Healing Sorcerer is going to be insanely hard but doable as you need to juggle slotting abilities for keeping your group alive and slotting abilities to keep yourself alive IE Damage and CC. Weapon Swapping will be VERY handy here as your HOTs WILL persist through a Weapon Swap.

Also don't forget that Heavy Attack with the Restro Staff gives back 10% Magicka on the FINAL hit.

Niminion · May 2014

Sorc healers spam all day long. Take your stamina regen and double it then add it to your magika regn. That is your total regen now using Dark Conversion.

Tell your group your not a Templar and they need to stand in your aoe and not hide in a corner and everything will be alright.

Tecova · May 2014

I always play a healer type in MMO games. I have so far, a 43 templar, and 44 sorcerer with resto. It's not even close, the Templar walks away with it by a country mile. That said, my resto sorcerer doesn't do a BAD job, he's just not anywhere close to my "cleric" build Templar. I set him up in heavy armor, 1h+shield, (Mace of course!) and I use rushed ceremony morphed to breath of life for spike heals, and I use restoring aura morphed to repentance for maintenance heals. (there's nearly always a fresh corpse on the ground). I've found my "cleric" to be nearly invincible as long as I don't get completely mobbed (7-8mobs on me at once) or as long as I don't get spiked for my whole life bar. I set up my stat points pretty evenly, so far going 15 mag, 15 sta, and the rest in Health.

My Sorc, is 25 in Magicka, and the rest in Health so far. I bought ALL the resto staff passives, and I only use Grand Healing morphed to Illustrious Healing. It works, but not very well on spike damage. I find if I want to be effective, I just have to anticipate a bit and cast before it's needed.

Niminion · May 2014

Tecova wrote: »

I always play a healer type in MMO games. I have so far, a 43 templar, and 44 sorcerer with resto. It's not even close, the Templar walks away with it by a country mile. That said, my resto sorcerer doesn't do a BAD job, he's just not anywhere close to my "cleric" build Templar. I set him up in heavy armor, 1h+shield, (Mace of course!) and I use rushed ceremony morphed to breath of life for spike heals, and I use restoring aura morphed to repentance for maintenance heals. (there's nearly always a fresh corpse on the ground). I've found my "cleric" to be nearly invincible as long as I don't get completely mobbed (7-8mobs on me at once) or as long as I don't get spiked for my whole life bar. I set up my stat points pretty evenly, so far going 15 mag, 15 sta, and the rest in Health.

My Sorc, is 25 in Magicka, and the rest in Health so far. I bought ALL the resto staff passives, and I only use Grand Healing morphed to Illustrious Healing. It works, but not very well on spike damage. I find if I want to be effective, I just have to anticipate a bit and cast before it's needed.

At 43 maybe, at VR4 in a 15-20 minute boss fight the Templar calls out "low mana" while the sorc just keeps spamming like the energizer bunny.

Not saying Templars are bad healers though, but sorcs are completely viable.

Rev Rielle · May 2014

Tkeela wrote: »

So I kind of solo'd my way through the levels with the intent of gearing up to be a Sorc healer in later groups, as playing that role was my intention, but with only running a few dungeons was wondering if I was deluding myself? Is a Sorc healer even viable for end-game? partially in ignorance and partially feeling mislead at char-gen. If I want to main a healer, do I need to roll a Templar?

The first thing to realise is just because many say that a sorcerer healer won't be as good as a templar healer, doesn't mean they're not good.

Do you need to roll a templar? No. You will be able to as a sorcerer, the trick will be to think as a sorcerer healer, and not as the more tradition-style 'templar-esque' healer. Sorcerers will be able to provide things that templars won't, either directly or indirectly that will help healing, the trick will be to find those and nurturing them. It might require thinking outside the square a little is all.

And just to clear up something daftpunk said that was a little misleading:
The restoration staff will restore 10% of your magicka per heavy attack, but you must ensure the heavy attack completes. And whilst that's going on you cannot cast to break the attack or you'll not gain the 10%.

Tatuaje · May 2014

I have built and run a straight up healing Templar from level 1. When I compare the Skill line to the staff healing line, I do not think I could be as effective. A lot of what Daftpunk wrote I found true even in the lower dungeons. The names escape me at work, but I use a 3/2 setup. The 2 from the staff are Force Siphon (morphed to provide heals and blue juice) and Regeneration for on going heals and 3 from the class line for spike heals.

I tried more from the staff but was unable to successfully heal. With the food, Forced siphon, the Regeneration and the occasional refill from a restro staff attack, I am rarely out of smurf juice any more.

Talmet · May 2014

I think the issue here is lvl...

At low lvls, sorc doesn't have much going on. Which leads people at low lvls to assume that sorc's can't heal.

At high lvls, as people have said, sorc never runs out of magicka (which is very nice in some of the longer boss fights & the speed runs where stopping to let your healer regen magicka = bad). Yes, Templar can regen magicka with heavy attacks...but that has to be the complete cast, as @REV RIELLE said above, you can't move/dodge/animation cancel during the attack.

At high lvls sorc get a few really really nice skills (remember, resto staff heals scale off of weapon damage): surge & bound armaments both boost weapon damage by quite a lot. Also, of course dark conversion.

Oh, and really...wards kinda suck in this game. Wards take damage BEFORE mitigation, so that 1000 point ward you put on the tank is equivalent to healing him for maybe 400 (even less if he's blocking). Not saying they are useless, but they aren't as great as their tooltip says.

Also, Templar's healing ult...some people like it...I hate it. It is a channeled ability, you can't move/cast/dodge/etc while it's going on...to me, that = fail. When it works, it's great, but when you have to move/dodge after 1 tick due to whatever, it is terrible.

And this is coming from a templar healer btw. I've done some runs where I went caster DPS though just to see how sorc heals vet dungeons & they do just fine.

Dantonian_Rarstiana · May 2014

Niminion wrote: »

At 43 maybe, at VR4 in a 15-20 minute boss fight the Templar calls out "low mana" while the sorc just keeps spamming like the energizer bunny.

No.
just, No.

Even a templar that is completely out of mana is still a better healer than a sorc.

I have never, ever wiped because I ran out of mana. A single power attack gives enough mana back to cast my most inefficient, yet largest boom heal on my bar.

You see, that's the difference between a sorc and a templar healer.

A sorc has to spam little heals all day long to keep his group up, while a templar mashes a few buttons and poof, everyone is full health.

He spends the next few seconds power attacking or picking his nose, either way, his mana is full.

If you were ever in a fight that was soooo bloody that the templar flat out ran out of mana and could no longer heal you can rest assured that the group with the sorc healer would have wiped a long time ago because the sorc cannot put out nearly as much HPS as a templar.

End of story.

Solomon_Cato · May 2014

I think people are kind of missing the differences in play style here.

The Templar is by far the best when you consider bringing people back from the brink. They do have have the best "spike" heals in the game, and Repentance, well, we know how much of a Godsend that skill is. They also have the most efficient cleanser as well.

For Sorcerers, it is really about anticipating certain things and timing out your healing. Talmet pretty much summed it up in his second sentence, things are kind of tough for the Sorcerer because you don't have surge yet, which is pretty much a staple of a healing Sorcerer. It isn't hard to bring people back from the brink as a Sorcerer either, can effectively be done by using Healing Ward and stacking 2-3 Illustrious Healings in one spot (Yes, they stack). Also, this goes for ALL healing skills (Templar included), the criticals of healing skills are reportedly bugged, from my testing with Inner Light on only Mutagen heals will crit, which is why I do not run Inner Light. However, they are supposed to be fixing this the next patch to where ALL heals will crit. So, a Sorcerer healer with Power Surge on plus Inner Light I see being able pump out some health.

As far as the argument for magicka management, all classes have access to the restoration staff, light armor passives, Spell Symmetry, and the atronach stone. So this argument seems a little dense to me. I main a ORC sorcerer, with all light armor magicka passives + atronach stone and I am easily overcharged in my magicka regen. In fact, with the use of Dark Conversion and Ring of Preservation, I am actually considering dropping a couple pieces of light armor for medium armor to pick up some extra stamina regeneration (need to experiment with this a little bit).

Each class goes about it different ways, you just have to know how to utilize their skills.

Zanzu · May 2014

Personally I love my templar as a healer but that's not to say you can't heal a dungeon purely off of restoration staff skills, and as long as you can manage that you can run healer off of any of the other classes, each bringing their own flavor to the slot. Also not a fan of rite of passage for the same reason others have listed here, having to stand around and channel an ability makes it at best an emergency heal that's situational, I much prefer to drop Nova when I know a big burst of damage is coming up and that mitigation is needed, or to help finish off the boss towards the end of a fight, reducing damage dealt = less pressure on healing so it works out pretty well.

As for others as healers, it's more reliant on your group playing well, you're not going to be able to spike heal through some fights which means you're not going to be able to afford glass cannons taking massive damage and be expected to have them back up to health instantly, Your people are going to need to stand in your illustrious healing to receive the most from your ability as a restoration staff healer which a lot of random people just don't like doing, and when they refuse to stand in it and end up being whittled down you're going to be the one they'll blame. Your group taking advantage of your play style is going to be what makes it or breaks it, whereas the templar healer.. someone messes up, boom out a highly inefficient instant heal that they can't avoid and zap them back up to full life to help make up for their mistake, templar can help pick up for lack of skill on the rest of your group while not having any emergency heals as a sorcerer you won't be able to manage it.

Also, when 12 player trials hit in craglorn and I'm busy healing on my templar, I'd love to have another like a sorcerer healer in the group focusing on keeping down the grand healing + regeneration while I focus on burst heals and keeping down some grand healing of my own at times. I feel it'll really change up people's perspective on what a group should be like and encourage a group with strong diversity between each character to make up for each other's weaknesses, because no build is the single best in this game and each has their own strengths and their own weaknesses.

rdfarley89 · May 2014

I heal just fine on my sorcerer. Hell I even run plenty of dungeons with just me and 3 dps, and I do dps too. If everyone in your group is good, you can be viable with any class and build. Just have to make sure people know how to block, dodge, and not stand in fire.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

Templar heal generaly are heavy on cost and in some time even require to channel... mobility is important in a party and unless you plan spamming glory of the dead or whataver the name of that move I don't see what Templar has that resto staff do not

I run NB healer and I prefer my instant cast healing over time spell over your channeled ability wich puts your life at danger from any red circle that could spawn under your feet.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I don't see why not.
I'm a High Elf Sorcerer and have healed a lot, but only healed Veteran Grotto once (only done it once) and it worked fine.
Basically my advantage (High-Elf) comes from high magic and magic regen and also Dark Exchange.
Many people say Templar are the "best" as they have a dedicated Heal Skill line so I can't comment on that sorry.
But Sorcerers also have good buffs and crowd control so with weapon swapping you have a lot of options.

I have too agree with him, but it's going too be hard, it's not the easiest way too heal either but nither is a scorc tank, if you don't know what your doing you can cause allot of people too whipe, also seen someone say crits are broken for a heals if this is the case when they get fixed, with Mage light morph and surge, they are going too have some HUGE heals, when everything is fixed

Halrloprillalar · May 2014

The TL;DR of this thread:

Templar:
+higher burst heal potential
+stam/hp aura
+cleanse
+pretty good set of group utilities like the spell reflect bubble, bonus damage to target, etc. (non healing related)
-longevity (sorry but your magika control is just not as good as sorc)
-throughput (due to weapon damage buff of surge)

Sorc:
+magika management is OP (not just dark exchange, but also class passives)
+huge self weapon damage buff (affects resto staff skills) if medium duration high aoe healing is needed
+different and useful group utilities (either ultimates like storm atro or negate magic, or buff group magika regen if pet summoned, or actually give 6s of spell projectile negation via bolt escape morph) etc.
-much lower burst healing potential (no healing ultimate) or instant heals like rushed ceremony - have to rely on staff skills (ward and combat prayer) so it's much less forgiving to mistakes (by all party members)
-no cleanse (unless including pvp tree or negate magic which is not quite it)

I don't know that much about NB or DK healers, but I assume they could be made to work.

Travail · May 2014

One advantage of the Templar healer isn't actually our healing. The Templar is uniquely positioned to contribute damage to the group, in ways other healers can only dream of.

The Templar has a second long duration HoT (Extended Ritual) to add to Rapid Regen/Mutagen. Stacking these two on your group opens up some breathing room to use offensive attacks like Backlash. This can be a huge help on some of the bosses in the game, especially once you get into the VR content where some fights are DPS races.

Backlash is one ability every Templar healer should run with during boss fights, IMO. Under decent conditions, casting Backlash every 7 seconds will net me 180 dps all on it's own, which is pretty great when added to the 40-50 DPS I get from my heavy attack channel. A Sorcerer healer who is using Dark Exchange for magicka regen will often be pumping out... zero dps. They aren't even heavy attacking with the Resto Staff.

In Trials, I can definitely see 1 Templar being designated an "offhealer/Backlash spammer", where your role is to make sure Backlash gets spammed every 3 seconds or so, maybe using Combat Prayer in-between.

-Travail.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

The TL;DR of this thread:

Templar:
+higher burst heal potential
+stam/hp aura
+cleanse
+pretty good set of group utilities like the spell reflect bubble, bonus damage to target, etc. (non healing related)
-longevity (sorry but your magika control is just not as good as sorc)
-throughput (due to weapon damage buff of surge)

Sorc:
+magika management is OP (not just dark exchange, but also class passives)
+huge self weapon damage buff (affects resto staff skills) if medium duration high aoe healing is needed
+different and useful group utilities (either ultimates like storm atro or negate magic, or buff group magika regen if pet summoned, or actually give 6s of spell projectile negation via bolt escape morph) etc.
-much lower burst healing potential (no healing ultimate) or instant heals like rushed ceremony - have to rely on staff skills (ward and combat prayer) so it's much less forgiving to mistakes (by all party members)
-no cleanse (unless including pvp tree or negate magic which is not quite it)

I don't know that much about NB or DK healers, but I assume they could be made to work.

You also forgot to note that..

Templars can heal ANY member as long as they are within range so positioning NOT as important as placing a healing ring on the ground.

Templars Burst heal, heals 3 party members.

Feidam · May 2014

I run a sorc healer for dungeons, I'm VR 9 currently and sorcs can heal just fine. Using the surge buff I can pump out a lot of healing in a steady stream. Like some else said earlier you have to approach healing with the resto staff a bit differently. Any non Templar healer just takes a bit more effort to put all the skills together. The alliance support skills reviving barrier and efficient purge are great skills to add to a resto staff healers tool kit.