I really liked the evolution of the Leramil/Gadayn relationship

AnduinTryggva · December 9

Just thought I mentioned that I really liked that part of the Nekrom main story. Sometimes it made me also giggle...

Credible_Joe · December 9

Kind of wish they had committed to a certain plot development.

When Gadayn gets deleted, I suspected he'd be brought back by the end, but hoped not. Really would have given Leramil a lot to regret for taking it so slow. But; I do like that she pays an ambiguous price for getting him back. If it pans out in the way I suspect, he wasn't brought back to life, but abducted from a different timeline where he survived, taking him away from a variant Leramil that wouldn't have lost him. I can see a future quest or dungeon where variant Leramil is the big bad, desperate to take back what was stolen from her.

metheglyn · December 9

I like Gadayn, but don't like Leramil, so their relationship seemed off to me. I kind of wanted to pull him aside and counsel him out of it, but he's a grown Dunmer and can love who he wants.

tsaescishoeshiner · December 9

I found both characters pretty lacking in personality and emotional investment in the questline, and was confused why so much time was spent on a romance between them. But I see how some of their dialogue about it is light-hearted now that you mention it.

I guess it really is subjective lol. I just wish the characters were emphasized and developed more compared to the plot, like Ulfsild and Nahlia in Scribing, or the Companions in their bonus quests.

Lugaldu · December 9

I found this love story a bit, um, strange to be honest. But maybe that was because I didn't really like either Leramil or Gadayn, and even less so in combination. If the story writers were going for a "shy" love story, then that didn't come across in the German version at least. It all just seemed too stiff and artificial.

emilyhyoyeon · December 9

Lugaldu wrote: »

If the story writers were going for a "shy" love story, then that didn't come across in the German version at least. It all just seemed too stiff and artificial.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks this.

I kind of liked Leramil, but Gadayn really did nothing for me. But I don't think it's because of that.

AzuraFan · December 9

I liked the romance, but they didn't behave like the middle-aged (or older) adults they appeared to be.

(A lot of video game romances have the people involved behaving like giggly teenagers who can't seem to express their feelings in plain language, even though they should be way past that point, given their age.)

Credible_Joe · December 9

AzuraFan wrote: »

I liked the romance, but they didn't behave like the middle-aged (or older) adults they appeared to be.

(A lot of video game romances have the people involved behaving like giggly teenagers who can't seem to express their feelings in plain language, even though they should be way past that point, given their age.)

Fairly certain Gadayn was meant to be portrayed as quite young. Especially by elven standards; 30's - 60's is Probably a Dunmer's young adulthood. Besides that, I do think that's the exact commentary here. One was raised in a monastery, the other is neck deep in Daedric intrigue and single-minded focused on academic research. I'm sure neither of them have much experience with romance.

In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, it's fairly tropey. A young adult that's foregone the passions of youth, getting ready to start his career. And a librarian that's had her nose in a book all her life.

tomofhyrule · December 10

Honestly, I wasn’t a fan.

The first few times was ok, but once it got to the point where each of them ended the conversation with “Tell Gadayn I… miss him…” or “Do you think Leramil really likes me? Like… really likes me?” I was done with both of them.

I was actually shouting at my computer “JUST DO IT ALREADY AND LEAVE ME OUT OF IT!”

I understand that romance is some people’s primary interest in an RPG. I am *not* one of those people.

LanteanPegasus · December 11

Well, I'm still not entirely done with the Gold Road main quest.

Because I have a hard time scraping together any main quest motivation ever since this whole mess of a story started with Necrom.
And because I cringe away from it for a while any time I get to yet another part where I have to endure the debacle of a non-character that is Leramil.

When Gadayn showed up for the first time, he showed some promise as an unexperienced but dedicated and determined young character that is thrown into things his belief didn't exactly prepare him for.
Then he met the nonsense-blathering personality vacuum called Leramil, turned into her mindless lapdog for some unfathomable reason, and lost all own agenda and personality aside from worrying about either her safety, or her affection, or both.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but in my books this is one of the worst written characters (Leramil) and relationships (Leramil/Gadayn) I ever met in ESO. (I played through almost all quests, and I do like stories about NPC relationships of all kinds, romance included, but it just doesn't work if you have one character that is completely bland and featureless, and one that is relegated to being a lovesick puppy.)

StarOfElyon · December 11

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Kind of wish they had committed to a certain plot development.
When Gadayn gets deleted, I suspected he'd be brought back by the end, but hoped not. Really would have given Leramil a lot to regret for taking it so slow. But; I do like that she pays an ambiguous price for getting him back. If it pans out in the way I suspect, he wasn't brought back to life, but abducted from a different timeline where he survived, taking him away from a variant Leramil that wouldn't have lost him. I can see a future quest or dungeon where variant Leramil is the big bad, desperate to take back what was stolen from her.

Yeah I guess I can hope that it's not the right guy and we end up having to return him. It really shouldn't have happened the way it did at the end. That undermined the consequences of the story.

AzuraFan · December 11

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

When Gadayn showed up for the first time, he showed some promise as an unexperienced but dedicated and determined young character that is thrown into things his belief didn't exactly prepare him for.
Then he met the nonsense-blathering personality vacuum called Leramil, turned into her mindless lapdog for some unfathomable reason, and lost all own agenda and personality aside from worrying about either her safety, or her affection, or both.

It's kind of refreshing in that usually in romances, it's the woman who has a great future, but then meets a guy and gives up her goals and aspirations so she can focus only on him, and/or changes herself to suit him. So at least it goes against the grain.

(this trope is changing, but it still happens a lot.)

Jaimeh · December 11

I was rooting for them, even though it was awkward as heck sometimes--but not all romantic subplots in the game have to be a certain way, so I didn't really mind the awkwardness, and I hope Leramil didn't have to make a very bad bargain for Gadayn to return. Also, it's funny how the Vestige acts like a match-maker, to the point of being too nosy at times, and always prods in the dialogues for the NPCs feelings... it happened before, for example, with Lyris and Sai, as well as Stefan Monard and Druid Laurel.

AnduinTryggva · December 12

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

Well, I'm still not entirely done with the Gold Road main quest.

Because I have a hard time scraping together any main quest motivation ever since this whole mess of a story started with Necrom.
And because I cringe away from it for a while any time I get to yet another part where I have to endure the debacle of a non-character that is Leramil.

When Gadayn showed up for the first time, he showed some promise as an unexperienced but dedicated and determined young character that is thrown into things his belief didn't exactly prepare him for.
Then he met the nonsense-blathering personality vacuum called Leramil, turned into her mindless lapdog for some unfathomable reason, and lost all own agenda and personality aside from worrying about either her safety, or her affection, or both.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but in my books this is one of the worst written characters (Leramil) and relationships (Leramil/Gadayn) I ever met in ESO. (I played through almost all quests, and I do like stories about NPC relationships of all kinds, romance included, but it just doesn't work if you have one character that is completely bland and featureless, and one that is relegated to being a lovesick puppy.)

I can see that some players consider Leramil as a vacuum character.

For me she is like an ambitous and particularly eager Mora adept having climbed up some steps in the Mora hierarchy within mortals. She tries to conform to norms within the daedric world of Mora where all is about knowledge and where emotions have no place. So she does her best to conceal her own emotions and she even unsuccessfully tries to emulate the way Mora speaks himself (which is one of the funny parts I think). It is as such pretty normal that many players perceive her as being shallow because that's exactly what she tries to appear as.

katanagirl1 · December 12

It’s not hard to understand there would be awkwardness in first time relationships, which is what I think is implied in the story for both of them. Also, we are so used to “romances” being more about physical attraction than real feelings, so if anything those are more shallow than this.

Leramil might be a turn-off for many players but she is a scholar and a seeker of knowledge so her personality makes sense to me. It’s sure better than portraying her as an emotional woman in my opinion, that’s too sexist and has been overdone.

Lugaldu · December 12

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It’s not hard to understand there would be awkwardness in first time relationships, which is what I think is implied in the story for both of them. Also, we are so used to “romances” being more about physical attraction than real feelings, so if anything those are more shallow than this.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, Leramil says at some point that she is not inexperienced when it comes to relationship matters.

Marto · December 12

Lugaldu wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It’s not hard to understand there would be awkwardness in first time relationships, which is what I think is implied in the story for both of them. Also, we are so used to “romances” being more about physical attraction than real feelings, so if anything those are more shallow than this.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, Leramil says at some point that she is not inexperienced when it comes to relationship matters.

She does. That's honestly one of my favorite moments in their story.

Leramil's awkwardness and shyness doesn't come from lack of experience. It's just that she's, simply put, bad at flirting and romance. Maybe she's out of practice after a century or two of not having a partner, or maybe she's always been a bit awkward. It happens!

It's as another commenter said. Leramil is not too forthright with her emotions, and presents herself as this highly logical scholar. But that's not all there is to her.

I also got the impression that she's scared of pulling someone as kind and innocent and Gadayn into her life of forbidden magic, dangerous threats, and world-changing knowledge. It's a dangerous life, and not for just anyone.

Gadayn being revived at the end did feel a bit too sudden and unrewarding to me. So hopefully that plot point about Leramil paying some sort of price comes back.

katanagirl1 · December 13

Lugaldu wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It’s not hard to understand there would be awkwardness in first time relationships, which is what I think is implied in the story for both of them. Also, we are so used to “romances” being more about physical attraction than real feelings, so if anything those are more shallow than this.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember, Leramil says at some point that she is not inexperienced when it comes to relationship matters.

I don’t remember that, but that’s not saying much, lol.

Well you know the nerdy types aren’t the most extroverted, self-assured, and romantic people you know. (Speaking from experience in case anyone takes offense.)

TaSheen · December 13

Eh, I had my younger days where I was not only nerdy, but I was also self-assured and "interested" (never been a real romantic). But after nearly 50 years of marriage.... Nah.