Sticky DOT for solo PVE - DK

Tariq9898 · November 2024

Hi!

I read that Noxious Breath is a sticky DOT and therefore doesn't get buffed by fronbar sets like Order's Wrath when the skill is used on backbar.

What about Barbed Trap and Venomous Claw? Are those sticky DOTs or do those get buffed when switching to Orders wrath frontbar?

Zodiarkslayer · November 2024

If you want DoTs to update when switching to frontbar, you'll need AoE DoTs that update and search for new targets every time they tick.
The general rule is only DoTs with ground effects. But there are exceptions. I am fairly certain that Flames of Oblivion updates as well.

This is why I use Breath and Claw on the frontbar.

loosej · November 2024

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Hi!

I read that Noxious Breath is a sticky DOT and therefore doesn't get buffed by fronbar sets like Order's Wrath when the skill is used on backbar.

What about Barbed Trap and Venomous Claw? Are those sticky DOTs or do those get buffed when switching to Orders wrath frontbar?

Yes both are sticky, but Barbed Trap has a delay between casting and activating, I assume it uses your current stats the moment it activates.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

If you want DoTs to update when switching to frontbar, you'll need AoE DoTs that update and search for new targets every time they tick.
The general rule is only DoTs with ground effects. But there are exceptions. I am fairly certain that Flames of Oblivion updates as well.

This is why I use Breath and Claw on the frontbar.

I think Flames of Oblivion is multiple instances of direct damage, not damage over time. The only exception to the rule afaik is Poison Injection, because it needs to recalculate the execute scaling every tick.

Urzigurumash · December 2024

This is wrong, all ticks of sticky dots update for all stats EXCEPT those which were used to calculate its scaling at the time of cast, i.e. Weapon/Spell Damage and Mag/Stam. Ground dots may in fact update their Damage+Resoure calc as well, I'm not sure.

In general, crit chance, crit damage, Pen, Damage Done, chance to proc Status Effects, etc., is taken from whatever bar you're on. For sticky dots, aka single target dots, only the initial calculation "sticks". (Breath is an AoE Direct Damage which applies a Single Target DoT.)

Urzigurumash · December 2024

I always backbarred Breath and Claw on a 2h/SnB PvP sDK, with a Sharpened Maul frontbar, often with a Nirnhoned backbar 1h. With the SnB passive buff to WD, I had more WD on my backbar than on my frontbar, with much more Pen on my frontbar, which gave me stronger Breath/Claw/Volatile than if I ran them on a Sharpened Maul frontbar.

(In the old times before hybridization, I know little of what's best on post 2021 DK)

loosej · December 2024

Urzigurumash wrote: »

This is wrong, all ticks of sticky dots update for all stats EXCEPT those which were used to calculate its scaling at the time of cast, i.e. Weapon/Spell Damage and Mag/Stam. Ground dots may in fact update their Damage+Resoure calc as well, I'm not sure.

In general, crit chance, crit damage, Pen, Damage Done, chance to proc Status Effects, etc., is taken from whatever bar you're on. For sticky dots, aka single target dots, only the initial calculation "sticks". (Breath is an AoE Direct Damage which applies a Single Target DoT.)

Thank you, with what little info there is to be found on the subject I assumed all stats were used for sticky dots entire calculation, but I just ran a small test and you're right.

I crafted 3 lvl 1 armor pieces + a fire staff Order's Wrath, and an identical no-set fire staff. Put them on a DK as his only gear, frontbar + backbar both had Engulfing Flames as only skill slotted.

Cast on frontbar and stay there: 2707 crits
Cast on backbar and stay there: 2604 crits
Cast on frontbar, switch to backbar: 2707 crits before swap, 2604 crits after swap

Happy to be proven wrong and understand the game just a little bit more, but not looking forward to the builds I'll have rethink.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2024

I was assuming that OP meant only WD/SD when he said gets "buffed by frontbar sets".
Obviously when a tick of a back barred DoTs occurs, the game will make a damage calculation based on the current armor value, penetration value and use the current stats for critical calculations.

Sticky DoTs do not update the initial damage, because they do not switch targets. And this way obly the WD/SD of the backbar gets used for the initial damage calculation.
But! There are DoTs that have to update for which target gets hit and which not every GCD. Therefore they will not use the calculated damage of the time of the cast, but the updated calue calculated with the current Weapon or Spelldamage value.

In that regard Biting Trap's direct hit and DoT will calculate when an enemy triggers the trap that must not necessarily be at the time of the cast, but can be a GCD later. And that is time enough to switch to the frontbar and get a higher WD for damage calculation.

Urzigurumash · December 2024

Right it's just a bit confusing to say "sticky dots don't update the initial damage", even though that is accurate, because the "final damage result" is updated. The OP implied they were told the 4th and 5th lines of Order's Wrath won't buff the DoTs of Breath and Claw if the skills are backbarred, but they will, only the 2nd line of that set wouldn't work on the opposite bar.

However obviously they won't buff the Direct Damage component of these skills, which is probably still somewhat relevant for PvE DD, I know it was long ago.