Do you think a retcon could unlock the true potential of the Ascendant Lord as a memorable villain?

FabresFour · November 30

This post contains spoilers for the High Isle and Firesong storylines. If you haven’t completed these stories yet, please leave the post.

I’m going to share a thought, and maybe you won’t like it, but I’ve been reflecting on the story of the Ascendant Lord and… Wouldn’t it be interesting if, somehow, Zenimax revealed that the Ascendant Lord wasn’t actually Lord Bacaro? Yes, I’m talking about a retcon.

I’m usually not a fan of retcons, but I’ve been thinking about this a lot. The Ascendant Lord, who became popularly known on the internet as the Nameless Knight, has turned into an incredibly recognizable and very popular image. He’s probably a more iconic character than the three protagonists we have in the game’s promotional materials.

I mean, this character has an unprecedented marketing and promotional potential for ESO. Few things have resonated with the broader audience as much as the image of this character, LOL. Even today, I see people making videos about him, using his image, without ever having played ESO. He has a very iconic appearance.

I think this ties into the “3v1” concept from the High Isle cinematics. And yes, I know those cinematics aren’t canon, but they’re still very important for the game’s promotion, and this character became a symbol of what a knight should be: someone without magic who can still stand toe-to-toe with a group of heroes brimming with powers.

I started imagining: what if Zenimax crafted a storyline featuring the Nameless Knight as the true Ascendant Lord?

I’m not sure how the story would unfold, but I’d genuinely love to face off against the character from the trailer, you know? A tremendously powerful warrior—no magic, no spells, just sheer physical strength. Maybe, at most, an enchanted suit of armor to explain his abnormal magical resistance.

I don’t know; I feel like High Isle had so much potential, and I don’t think the alliances' storyline fully delivered. A plot expanding on this concept and developing it further—perhaps involving the deserters we've seen along the Gold Road—could be extremely compelling.

But it’s just something I’ve been pondering. I truly think the Ascendant Lord was a wasted opportunity for the game. He’s one of the strongest representations of a warrior/knight in recent years online, only to be turned into a generic spellcaster. It’s kind of sad when you think about it.

On a related note: I really feel like this game lacks warrior villains. I get that mages are extremely powerful and all, but would it hurt to give us an epic fight against a warrior, with combat animations as dynamic as Thoat Replicanum’s?

Anyway, just some random thoughts about it. What do you think?

colossalvoids · November 30

Pretty sure it's lost cause already. Though they seem to have more eye to Souls'ish visual style lately and that might bring some better designs along the way, similar fashion or not.

OsUfi · November 30

Not a fan of ret cons, so no.

However, I do somewhat agree. The Sable Knight is one of my fave world bosses to fight. Would be great to have a story bosses like him.

All that said,

Legacy of Bretons was the hope that we'd be fighting a slightly more grounded boss like Kurog. Firesong fuzzed that up. Real shame.

It is what it is, Zenimax like big daedric battles with much flashbang, and you get that when facing down a super-duper-mega-magic threat. Not some dude decked out in fancy armour.

Cooperharley · November 30

There’s not a single villain in the game that’s meaningful in my eyes because if you accidentally burp on a mob they fall over dead.

The writing for these big stories has been notably weak in recent years and even then, when the writing was good in the past, the game is just too easy to be anything meaningful. It’s full of fun little stories, but tied to meaning? Nah.

Until they re-prioritize the writing away from end of the world scenarios, it’ll stay that way imo. I think everybody was pumped for high isle for this reason: they FINALLY broke the formula, and it still ended up being a bust IMO

I_killed_Vivec · November 30

The problem with the Ascendant Lord was that it was abundantly clear who it was months before we had to suffer the second part of the story.

And I've never forgiven that idiot "detective", who was so dim somehow she hadn't worked it out, for calling me "Mercenary", when I have never asked for a penny for my services.

amig186 · November 30

I don't understand the popularity of this character tbh, I get that some people like to root for the underdog, like a bog standard human with no magical talent and only raw strength and discipline, but in a world where you have elven mages for whom an entire human life is barely a speck on their timeline, there's just no way such a character would rise to that kind of significance. At least not without some sort of enhancement, most likely of the magical persuasion. Nirn with its omnipresent magic just isn't the kind of place for that. It seems to me that fans of the Asc. Lord as he was in the trailer would be better off looking for a different, low fantasy setting where magic is rare and physical might and martial skill are much more valuable.

tomofhyrule · November 30

I honestly think that that story was doomed as soon as they decided to pivot it in about fifteen different directions and let the Bretons be usurped in their own Chapter.

Honestly all the Ascendant Knight had going for him was "wow, he looks cool in the cinematic." Even in the story, he was nothing - you fight him once at the very end, and for the rest of it all he does is walk on and say a line while standing menacingly. There's so much that they could have done to make him more memorable, but the story needed a solid direction to go first.

The "we need to rise up and break the wheel of the alliances!" is a great idea for a story. But then that person needs to look like a threat and not have the Alliance Leaders easily get out of their own traps (or at least one of them who obviously goes around like she doesn't need any help, while the other two look completely pathetic and obstinate, making is so obvious which of the alliances ZOS supports and making players who prefer one of the other two feel like the unfavorites)
The "we the people need to rise up against the nobility!" is also a great storyline, but then the Alliances need to not be involved and the story needs to focus more on the Bretons themselves (hence, the idea of a Breton-themed Chapter)
The "we the Druids want to rage against the natural world!" could work as well, but that does take the politics out of the story and introduces more of the fantastical elements. Which is not a problem, but it sounded from the reveal like the idea was to have a more grounded Political story à la Orsinium, and the Firesong stuff just moved it right back into the world-ending threat territory.
The "The alliances are making peace!" story, however, is not a good direction to go when the entire raison d'être for PvP in this game is the raging Alliance war, which lorewise is not really solved until Tiber Septim comes by in 500 years (and even then, they're already on the 2nd AD at that point in history)

So yeah, the story was completely all over the place. While most of the directions they could have gone in would have been good standalone, the fact that they tried to do all of them muddled everything.

Add to that also the fact that many characters felt misplaced or thrown aside:

As much of a fan-favorite Captain Za'ji is as comic relief, that style of comedy doesn't land with everyone, and there's also no indication that he and Ayrenn have any relationship. Meanwhile the actual sea captain used in the AD storyline who has a relationship with Raz was relegated to a sidequest in Amenos... that depended on comic relief. Za'ji and Jimila should have been swapped
While Jorunn's absence was probably that they couldn't get Peter Stormare to come back, the excuse reason of "hey, he's shacking up with a bimbo in Riften" was nothing short of an insult. If this were an important peace meeting, he needed to be on his deathbed to have missed it... and it's not like there's currently a deadly flu going around that they could easily have used for the excuse. "Jorunn caught the Knahaten flu so Irnskar is filling for him" is so much better of an excuse and also raises the stakes, instead of just relying on the joke reason of "he's a Nord so lol"
Who the heck is Captain Tsuzo? What, there wasn't an EP officer that they could have just done a quick retcon into a sea captain (like, oh, General Holgunn!?) so they had to make up a new EP character with whom we have no relationship?
Why is Emeric a competent leader until Ayrenn shows up, at which point he becomes a petulant and obstinate donkey?
Why is Ayrenn the only leader who's "capture" is her holding her own against the enemies, and then she also comes out and says "yeah, I somehow also have the power of the Maormer to call storms because it's convenient to the plot and I'm perfect"?
I'm supposed to believe that Inspector Vale herself, the greatest detective of this time, couldn't figure out who the main villain is when everyone here called him within three seconds of meeting him, and then she goes off and gets herself poisoned in the most cliche way possible? Has she ever read a single cheap detective story ever? Everything about the High Isle line was formulaic to a fault, so the fact that she was being as stupid as the plot required her to be was just insulting, especially since everyone spend half the time talking about how much of a genius she was.

So yeah, I feel like the massive failing of High Isle was completely down to the writing, which was all over the place. And I don't think that was the entire year either - the Firesong Q4 was really really good, including some of the best characters (like Siravaen and Stefan Mornard) and what is hands-down the best VA in the game (Stefan again). But unfortunately that was put down by being saddled with the Q2 High Isle line. But it stuck to a single story there and did it incredibly well.

Destai · November 30

I really wanted this zone and its arc to be my favorite. All of the elements were strong and deeply appealing: chivalrous knights, druids, pirates, Elves as the Other, castles. Even the pretense of the Ascendant Order was attractive. But I don’t think a retcon would make it come together in a more satisfying way. I found the story ok, but the elements they introduced really needed a multi year arc to breathe. There’s just too many characters and story elements that really bely depth that can’t be squeezed into a 18 quests, IMO.

Soarora · November 30

I will still die on the hill that he should have been Sorcerer-King Orgnum. Now, I do have a bias because I love Maormer, but it would've made a great "the Bretons and the Druids come together again to fight a near god-like enemy" story while still being a POLITICAL STORY like we were promised. It would have explained how the Druids and Bretons got back together for Daggerfall(?). It would have explained how, in the trailer, one man can fight 3 heroes and have a building collapse on him and live. It could have explained the Dreadsail (and I saw Maormer wearing other armor such as the armor of the Sea Vipers).