Thought I would give ToT another try

madman65 · November 26

Well I will not go back and play the ToT. I started of course on novice but the game threw combo after combo, just felt like the opponents where on expert. I could not get anything started but oh well. I mean this game is meant to challenge but to shut me down at novice level, that`s telling me this is as far as you go. Love this game that I paid for and subscribe to!

MidniteOwl1913 · November 26

Yes well the ToT AI is weird. Most of the time, it plays dumb. But it seems under some circumstances it wakes up and goes for blood. I wish I knew what triggered it so I could avoid it, but it seems random...

Hapexamendios · November 26

I wish you good luck with that and hope you fair better than I did.

Gabriel_H · November 26

Master ToT player here. When I can be bothered to play for the rankings, I typically end up in the top 20% playing just once a day (30 matches a month).

I tell you this to highlight this point - Between levelling Zerith's rapport and the current Event I done the NPC quest on and off for the last 30 days, about 40 matches in all (yeah it could be 90 but i'm lazy). Anyway the matches are always against the novice NPCs (again I'm lazy), and of that 40 matches I have a 92.5% win rate - i.e. I lost 3 - because the biggest issue (or at least my biggest issue) with ToT is the RNG.

The NPC got better opportunities to pick up cards, and better cards when given those opportunities. It's not that the NPC is suddenly having a sudden burst of skill, it is simply the RNG is heavily favouring them.

Stick at it, play with friends who know the game and can give you feedback on strategies, but also accept that even the best startegy ever will not work if you simply do not get the cards.

OsUfi · November 26

I love ToT.

I hate playing it so much it cured me of my achievement hunting addiction.

Metafae · November 26

I've played so much ToT against the AI, there is a distinct pattern in it's moves.

It's now to the point where I know what moves it will take.

There are specific cards that they're always going to pick if they can afford it, the immediate 4 power (cost 5) treasury cards being a big one.

If you leave a black sacrament card in the tavern, they will buy it with their last 2 coins if they've already used a patron, so you can leave it there for them to clear and reveal a potentially better card for your next turn.

If you flip Ansei's patron, they will always flip it back if they have enough power, but if you never touch it, neither will they.

There are so many of these patterns that you can manipulate them into destroying themselves.

DenverRalphy · November 26

Metafae wrote: »

I've played so much ToT against the AI, there is a distinct pattern in it's moves.

It's now to the point where I know what moves it will take.

There are specific cards that they're always going to pick if they can afford it, the immediate 4 power (cost 5) treasury cards being a big one.

If you leave a black sacrament card in the tavern, they will buy it with their last 2 coins if they've already used a patron, so you can leave it there for them to clear and reveal a potentially better card for your next turn.

If you flip Ansei's patron, they will always flip it back if they have enough power, but if you never touch it, neither will they.

There are so many of these patterns that you can manipulate them into destroying themselves.

Yeah, the AI will always keep making moves as long as it's possible to do so. Which is why I love Crow deck against the AI, not to play it, but to let AI waste time buying Crow cards. Because it's almost guaranteed to pop it on the 1st or 2nd turn for 1 coin, and is useless to them after that.

virtus753 · November 26

I’ve watched a lot of Proficient NPCs make some terrible decisions this past week or two grinding Zerith-var’s rapport and the event.

I don’t see Novices making quite as many or as egregious errors. For some reason they are consistently harder than Proficient NPCs, even though that’s not how those two words work.

Give Proficient a shot, if you have them unlocked. I always make sure that Hlaalu is chosen to let them burn their own cards (they will often choose inopportune times for this), and I take Orgnum for my own combos and prestige building.

DigiAngel · November 26

Never tried ToT....seemed like an odd thing to include. These posts validate my choice for sure.

Personofsecrets · November 26

I think that a lead for important meta-defining gear should be gated by random TOT rewards.

o_Primate_o · November 27

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I've played so much ToT against the AI, there is a distinct pattern in it's moves.

It's now to the point where I know what moves it will take.

There are specific cards that they're always going to pick if they can afford it, the immediate 4 power (cost 5) treasury cards being a big one.

If you leave a black sacrament card in the tavern, they will buy it with their last 2 coins if they've already used a patron, so you can leave it there for them to clear and reveal a potentially better card for your next turn.

If you flip Ansei's patron, they will always flip it back if they have enough power, but if you never touch it, neither will they.

There are so many of these patterns that you can manipulate them into destroying themselves.

Yeah, the AI will always keep making moves as long as it's possible to do so. Which is why I love Crow deck against the AI, not to play it, but to let AI waste time buying Crow cards. Because it's almost guaranteed to pop it on the 1st or 2nd turn for 1 coin, and is useless to them after that.

Metafae wrote: »

I've played so much ToT against the AI, there is a distinct pattern in it's moves.

It's now to the point where I know what moves it will take.

There are specific cards that they're always going to pick if they can afford it, the immediate 4 power (cost 5) treasury cards being a big one.

If you leave a black sacrament card in the tavern, they will buy it with their last 2 coins if they've already used a patron, so you can leave it there for them to clear and reveal a potentially better card for your next turn.

If you flip Ansei's patron, they will always flip it back if they have enough power, but if you never touch it, neither will they.

There are so many of these patterns that you can manipulate them into destroying themselves.

Black deck - let it keep archer patron up and watch it destroy all it's cards.
Same with Hermaeus deck, it will destroy every last card it has.

SeaGtGruff · November 27

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I think that a lead for important meta-defining gear should be gated by random TOT rewards.

I'm inclined to agree with you, given how often important meta-defining gear is gated behind just about every other type of content in the game.

But I seriously doubt it will ever happen, since the hard-core PvE and PvP players who raised holy heck when ToT was first announced basically demanded that ZOS must never do that "or else," and ZOS pretty much acquiesced.

katanagirl1 · November 27

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I think that a lead for important meta-defining gear should be gated by random TOT rewards.

I'm inclined to agree with you, given how often important meta-defining gear is gated behind just about every other type of content in the game.

But I seriously doubt it will ever happen, since the hard-core PvE and PvP players who raised holy heck when ToT was first announced basically demanded that ZOS must never do that "or else," and ZOS pretty much acquiesced.

I hope they don’t. I played so many games trying to get the lead from ToT, I think it was for a music box. Months later I gave up and had to wait until it showed up at the vendor in IA.

Gabriel_H · November 27

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I hope they don’t. I played so many games trying to get the lead from ToT, I think it was for a music box. Months later I gave up and had to wait until it showed up at the vendor in IA.

The RNG is a harsh mistress. Took me about 60 games of ToT to farm all 3 iterations of that antiquity - It took me 52 dragons in Sunspire just to get 1 iteration of the sabatons.

MindOfTheSwarm · November 27

The key to ToT is to always be getting Power. It’s very important and why Crow economy builds can get curb stomped by Mora or Pelin focused decks. A very powerful combo is Pelin/Mora and Delmene. You can get cards for free with the yellow cards then once you have 5-6 power cards, start selling your yellows. It’s very hard to counter.

katanagirl1 · November 27

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I hope they don’t. I played so many games trying to get the lead from ToT, I think it was for a music box. Months later I gave up and had to wait until it showed up at the vendor in IA.

The RNG is a harsh mistress. Took me about 60 games of ToT to farm all 3 iterations of that antiquity - It took me 52 dragons in Sunspire just to get 1 iteration of the sabatons.

There have been many threads about how the low drop rates have caused similar problems and that it needs to be addressed.