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Connections between Dunmer and Khajiit?
Malyore
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Is there some sort of connection (aside from the slavery that takes place among the Dark Elves) between the Dunmer and the Khajiit as a people?
When I was doing my housing, I noticed some similar furniture styles between the two species' designs. I also noticed some similarities between armors. Specifically the shoulder armor, which also has some similarities to the Dremora style.
The main connection I can think of is their cultures ancient bonds to Daedra. Perhaps it's a Daedric influence that took root. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen any similarities between the two? Because aside from some architecture and occasional fashion, they seem pretty far apart. Or maybe it's just coincidental overlap I'm seeing in the first place.
When I was doing my housing, I noticed some similar furniture styles between the two species' designs. I also noticed some similarities between armors. Specifically the shoulder armor, which also has some similarities to the Dremora style.
The main connection I can think of is their cultures ancient bonds to Daedra. Perhaps it's a Daedric influence that took root. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen any similarities between the two? Because aside from some architecture and occasional fashion, they seem pretty far apart. Or maybe it's just coincidental overlap I'm seeing in the first place.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Both draw heavy inspiration from different real world Asian styles in terms of furniture. I'm not surprised about overlaps. But in terms of lore? No connection.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake5 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azura(h) is a heavy influence on both Cultures.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!7 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azura(h) is a heavy influence on both Cultures.
Different cultures worshipped Daedra formerly (I mean, they've been the spirits that interacted with mortals from the beginning of times on), but still they are not neccessarily culturally related with each other.
I don't see a lot that would be stylistically related to Azura in Dunmer and Khajiit armour or furnishings either (there is a lot of moon symbolism with the Khajiit, but that's mostly related to Jone and Jode, not to Azura).
If we consider Dunmer history, a relation is also highly improbable. They were formerly Aedra-worshipping Aldmer, until the Prophet Veloth travelled to the East with his followers (then called Velothi or Chimer), which was also the beginning of the worship of the Good Daedra. Then they arrived in Resdayn/Morrowind, lived as nomads first, then settled down, then we had the incident where Azura cursed them and they became Dunmer, and also abandoned Daedra worship for the Tribunal religion. When would they have come across Khajiit in their history long enough for it to have an influence?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azura(h) is a heavy influence on both Cultures.
Different cultures worshipped Daedra formerly (I mean, they've been the spirits that interacted with mortals from the beginning of times on), but still they are not neccessarily culturally related with each other.
I don't see a lot that would be stylistically related to Azura in Dunmer and Khajiit armour or furnishings either (there is a lot of moon symbolism with the Khajiit, but that's mostly related to Jone and Jode, not to Azura).
If we consider Dunmer history, a relation is also highly improbable. They were formerly Aedra-worshipping Aldmer, until the Prophet Veloth travelled to the East with his followers (then called Velothi or Chimer), which was also the beginning of the worship of the Good Daedra. Then they arrived in Resdayn/Morrowind, lived as nomads first, then settled down, then we had the incident where Azura cursed them and they became Dunmer, and also abandoned Daedra worship for the Tribunal religion. When would they have come across Khajiit in their history long enough for it to have an influence?
I'm not saying the Dunmer and Khajiit exchanged their cultures concerning Azurah directly. The Prince is her own entity with her own stylistic aesthetic which would be passed down and emulated by whoever would worship her, regardless If the worshippers themselves were in contact with each other.
You are right as the Khajiit use of the crescent moon mostly comes from Jone and Jode, but I'm pretty sure I've seen astrological iconography be associated with Azurah as well. I'm essentially making an assumption based on loose evidence though.
Also a little peeved yet another thread like this wasn't made in the Lore category where it belongs.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not saying the Dunmer and Khajiit exchanged their cultures concerning Azurah directly. The Prince is her own entity with her own stylistic aesthetic which would be passed down and emulated by whoever would worship her, regardless If the worshippers themselves were in contact with each other.
We could try to explain it like this, but the question is whether the original designers had this in mind
I suspect it's more coincidental that Michael Kirkbride made Dunmer basically a stylistic mix of different South and East Asian cultures with a bit of Mesopotamian mixed in, and someone else thought that cats in Indian attire look cool. Which also wasn't a thing yet in the earlier games.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake2 -
Malyore✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also a little peeved yet another thread like this wasn't made in the Lore category where it belongs.
I wasn't sure if whatever connections (if any) there are would be outside of the realm of lore. Like Syldras said it is taking irl inspiration from Asian countries. I noticed it when I was doing the housing specifically and looking at buildings in elswyr. I knew the question would be bigger than housing topic, but I wasn't sure if it would also be bigger than lore topic.
I didn't know if there was a lore reason like the Daedra or some war. Or if it was something different, like maybe one of the lead designers for Morrowind had an idea in mind for the two races that got scrapped and resurfaced, or if there was some real life folktale that acted as inspiration, or if it's based off some something from DnD, or if because of the size of ESO it's simply coincidental because the designers are just trying to put out anything that works.
All of that seemed like a general audience would be able to provide more input than specifically the people who know just the in-game lore.Edited by Malyore on November 17, 2024 6:22PM1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭or if there was some real life folktale that acted as inspiration, or if it's based off some something from DnD
Not that I know of.
Star Trek has a cat people race named Caitians (I'm not joking!), that were first mentioned in the 1970's, but their style doesn't look Indian.
And I can remember one animated children's series from my childhood, some version of Jule Verne's novel "Around the World in Eighty Days", that depicted all people as different animals, and I know the young Indian widow from the original story was a cat (not even sure whether the other people there were cats, too - it's 30 years ago
). But I doubt that series was well-known enough to have become an inspiration for TES.
Always glad if I can provide useful information or answer questions, by the way.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
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And the Kzinti too! StarTrek is outdoing us by 2x the Cats!
StarWars also has a Cat race, just less furry, and with more Dunmer similar practices.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0
