A free idea to solve the cross healing issue that's ruining the PvP experience

Aldoss · November 2024

Hi @ZOS_MattFiror, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, and @ZOS_Kevin,

Cross healing/shielding in PvP is destroying the playerbase. It's one of the most referenced mechanics in the PvP forums for both Cyro and BG related activities. The main issues at stake here:

Healing has remained roughly untouched while damage has been nerfed consistently over the years
Recoveries are easier than ever to source
Polar Wind - The most juiced burst heal in the game that scales off a defensive stat
Heal stacking and Shield stacking

There are many more issues with cross healing, but this just outlines the point. The result of healing being so much stronger than damage means that a healer in PvP is also a tank. They have insane recoveries, insane HPS, and sometimes have insane defensive stats such as high HP (40k+) or high armor (30k+). This is a bad combination.

The Goal

Reduce the power of cross healing without affecting damage and without deleting the playstyle of a PvP healer, while also making them no longer be tanks.

The Solution - Blessings

A Blessing is something that fits within the lore of the Elder Scrolls and would allow a player under the effect of Battle Spirit to claim themselves as a healer. The blessing could just be something accessible through the skill sheet or could be a physical shrine that exists in Cyro bases or at BG spawns. A player who takes a blessing should be clearly noticeable and clearly marked as someone who is a healer.

Cross Healing and Shielding would get hit by -90% through battle spirit. This only affects a player's heals that target another player. Single target direct heals, such as Resistant Flesh, would no longer target anyone else but the caster unless they take a blessing. AOE heals and shields, such as Echoing Vigor or Bone Shield, would still affect other players, but would be reduced by -90%.

A player who takes a blessing will immediately gain access to full cross heals and shields, but will curse them in the process, making them take 50% increased damage from all sources. Put whatever lore you want here.

The Reasoning

Doing this through Battle Spirit is the way to make this happen. This solution (or something like it) will immediately resolve the power imbalances that cross healing creates, especially with such powerful heals such as Polar Wind. A Warden DD with 40k hp can easily get 12-15k crit heals on teammates AND a guaranteed heal on themselves, plus a giant HOT, while also getting to dish out a ton of damage. This is too much.

This solution won't affect the balance of PvE at all and will still allow healers to be an effective and legitimate playstyle in PvP, without also being outright tanks. Healers are almost never the target right now because of how easily they can tank damage. This shouldn't be the case. Healers should always be the primary target and someone their teammates try to protect as they counter the offensive.

DDs can still have their self-heals. In some respects, removing the ability for targeted heals like Healthy Offering to heal others would satisfy a great frustration that many DDs have experienced throughout the years where their burst heals get "stolen" by a friendly, but not grouped, player within the radius or LOS that is lower health than the caster.

As an example, several Warden DDs within radius of each other can burst heal each other and HOT each other with one skill, without having to aim, while also having 35k+ hp, while also having high armor, while also having high burst with Shalks, while also having high pressure with Northern Storm. There is no concession being given here. There's a reason why Wardens are one of the most common classes in BGs.

If not this, please do something soon. The Team vs Team BGs are showing great promise, but they've really helped isolate just how far the imbalance in the game has gone between damage and healing.

xylena_lazarow · November 2024

Agree on the problem, but trying to tell devs how to solve it isn't going to get their attention.

There's too much healing sourced from other players and it makes PvP unfun. Devs please help.

Moonspawn · November 2024

Given the strength of builds like acuity warden, pull clowns, and bombers in the new bgs, they're more likely to buff healing instead of nerfing it.

gariondavey · November 2024

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

Aldoss · November 2024

I like the simplicity of your approach @gariondavey.

Healers would still need to take extra damage in order to balance their survivability, given the disparity between the power of heals vs the power of damage in the game.

I think this is a great modification to the delivery of the suggestion.

Necrotech_Master · November 2024

gariondavey wrote: »

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

the only problem i can see with this, is there would be no reason anyone would select the tank role

95% of players would end up just selecting dps, because the healing and shielding penalties are the same as tank, but your not penalizing dmg

the other 5% would probably actually select healer being dedicated healers

but there would be no reason to ever select tank role if its the same as the dps role, but your also penalizing dmg dealt

Thumbless_Bot · November 2024

I agree with your general thought process but i think it might change the dynamics of the game too drastically. Not sure.

However, If they won't do what you recommend or something at least some of the way there, I think they need to fix bg scoring so people aren't rewarded for building into cross healing. The scoring is what has caused this awful meta where three healers and a nb stand next to each other and do literally nothing but drop heals. They dont even have to kill you in a death match to win the match because you cant kill them. This actively discourages building into and/or actually doing damage because the more damage you do, the more they heal and then they win because they get medal score for healing and you get nothing for actualy trying to accomplish the objective of the match. No group of 4 or 8 can pump out as much damage as can be healed by any group of 4 or 8. 100% broken and backwards.

Major_Mangle · November 2024

Do people who come with these suggestions have zero "maybe this is a bit of an extreme suggestion" phase where they realize their ideas are extremely hyperbole?

90% reduction to outgoing healing is just ludicrous. I´m all for adjusting cross healing and shielding, but at least come with some reasonable suggestions that doesn´t originate from some bitterness of not being able to kill people in BG´s/Cyrodiil.

If you wanna adjust these things you should look at skills/buffs at an individual level and adjust those that are too strong, not some "across the board" sweeping changes that just turns the game 180 degree all over the place.

CrazyKitty · November 2024

Just make it so players can only have one HoT of each type on them at any given time. Simple.

gariondavey · November 2024

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

show previous quotes

gariondavey wrote: »

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

the only problem i can see with this, is there would be no reason anyone would select the tank role

95% of players would end up just selecting dps, because the healing and shielding penalties are the same as tank, but your not penalizing dmg

the other 5% would probably actually select healer being dedicated healers

but there would be no reason to ever select tank role if its the same as the dps role, but your also penalizing dmg dealt

Can you think of a reason why the tank role would need the full damage (which they don't deal any of) or group healing (which they don't really do any of)?

gariondavey · November 2024

Aldoss wrote: »

I like the simplicity of your approach @gariondavey.

Healers would still need to take extra damage in order to balance their survivability, given the disparity between the power of heals vs the power of damage in the game.

I think this is a great modification to the delivery of the suggestion.

If healers aren't backed up by lots of passive cross heals, they absolutely can die. I don't think they need to take additional damage.

xylena_lazarow · November 2024

Just did a 180-120 final score 8v8 deathmatch...

Necrotech_Master · November 2024

gariondavey wrote: »

show previous quotes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

the only problem i can see with this, is there would be no reason anyone would select the tank role

95% of players would end up just selecting dps, because the healing and shielding penalties are the same as tank, but your not penalizing dmg

the other 5% would probably actually select healer being dedicated healers

but there would be no reason to ever select tank role if its the same as the dps role, but your also penalizing dmg dealt

Can you think of a reason why the tank role would need the full damage (which they don't deal any of) or group healing (which they don't really do any of)?

a tank role would not need dmg for sure

but just using the presented ideas:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

the only difference between these is the bolded line, even someone intending to play a tank would not select a tank role when its functionally the same as dps, except it is getting penalized on dmg done as well

it wouldnt matter if the person is just built tankier, or a full on block tank, nobody in their right mind would select the tank roll if this was the only difference with the dps role

gariondavey · November 2024

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

show previous quotes

gariondavey wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

the only problem i can see with this, is there would be no reason anyone would select the tank role

95% of players would end up just selecting dps, because the healing and shielding penalties are the same as tank, but your not penalizing dmg

the other 5% would probably actually select healer being dedicated healers

but there would be no reason to ever select tank role if its the same as the dps role, but your also penalizing dmg dealt

Can you think of a reason why the tank role would need the full damage (which they don't deal any of) or group healing (which they don't really do any of)?

a tank role would not need dmg for sure

but just using the presented ideas:
show previous quotes

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

show previous quotes

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

the only difference between these is the bolded line, even someone intending to play a tank would not select a tank role when its functionally the same as dps, except it is getting penalized on dmg done as well

it wouldnt matter if the person is just built tankier, or a full on block tank, nobody in their right mind would select the tank roll if this was the only difference with the dps role

I mean dps and tank roles can be effectively the same in what the game does to characters with those selected for pvp. Tanks don't do damage anyways so they don't really need 90 percent less damage I guess.

Moonspawn · November 2024

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the damage dealers by order of squishiness.

moosegod · November 2024

Moonspawn wrote: »

Cross healing isn't that strong. Pointlessly parsing pure healers is the real problem. Gotta focus the damage dealers by order of squishiness.

Cross healing is that strong. It's literally the core of a ball group. Everyone runs resolving vigor which for some reason can stack multiple times on a single player. Yes, sometimes you can gang up on and manage to kill a player who has left survivability out of their build but thats not the case for most players. I've seen healers totally carry a team in BG because they just can't die. Healers should not also be tanks, that just doesn't make sense in terms of counter-play.

Self healing is already decently powerful, combined with a dedicated healer (or two in some 8v8s) who leaves the game with 2.5m in healing it makes people virtually unkillable. I was in a match where a templar was ulting every 20-30s and just carried their team to victory.

Another example: I was in a chaosball match where the other team had 5 healers... they just could not die. However, they had no damage so we managed to hold the majority of the balls and did win that match. My team did not seem to enjoy the win though because we weren't really PvPing.

Many moons ago, healing was put in check through Major Defile but they reduced that debuff to 15% and also made it more difficult to access. Since then, damage has seen several nerfs while healing has remained mostly untouched in comparison.

Adjustments are needed. I'm not a game dev so I'm not gonna tell ZOS how to do it, but I think they should do something.

acastanza_ESO · November 2024

In my opinion, a lot of these "fixes" are over-complicated or barking up the wrong tree.
I think the core balance issue with ESO is actually much more simple, and it's something I have seen talked about here before;
Healing shouldn't scale off damage stats.

The current system allows damage dealers to slot healing effects and be just as effective with them as healers are.
There are a couple possible solutions; the common suggestion I've seen is to only scale heals off max resource and not weapon/spell damage. I think this is a flawed solution as it only serves to take something away from healers (e.g. you just don't benefit from a bunch of common buffs anymore). Healing and Damage scaling off the same stats is so intertwined with the game systems at this point that it would be a herculean task to change.

Instead, I think the solution is simpler; we need an equivalent stat for penetration but for healing effects cast on allies - like "Spell Purity". This allows healers to build for the new spell purity stat to ensure that their heals are effective, without taking away their ability to benefit equally from common group buffs (like Courage), but since DDs would be unwilling to give up damage or penetration to build for spell purity, their heals would be intrinsically less effective.

Heck, you could even make it work exactly like penetration where it actually has to punch through your ally armor, so the more armored your allies are the less effective your healing is.
Then, much like how we have Sharpened and Nirnhorned weapon traits. We could have Purified to go with Powered.

Note that I'm suggesting this as a primary PVP Healer main.

darvaria · November 2024

ZOS is never doing anything to counter ball groups. Have you noticed it's mostly EP players that complain. Just transfer off EP to either DC or AD and then you won't have to deal with ball groups. Simple solution.

acastanza_ESO · November 2024

darvaria wrote: »

ZOS is never doing anything to counter ball groups. Have you noticed it's mostly EP players that complain. Just transfer off EP to either DC or AD and then you won't have to deal with ball groups. Simple solution.

You're kidding right? EP and DC both constantly have Ballgroups at AD's trikeeps. It is something all factions have to deal with.

Aldoss · November 2024

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Do people who come with these suggestions have zero "maybe this is a bit of an extreme suggestion" phase where they realize their ideas are extremely hyperbole?

Hi. I'm a person. I exist. You don't need to talk about me like I don't.

-90% is my suggestion. This number won't affect some classes at all. DKs almost never have any group cross healing whatsoever in BGs, for example. Same with most NBs. Plars and wardens vomit group heals just by existing, pretty much regardless of what spec they are.

I main a healer. When my resource pools are empty, a DD can easily switch to healing to help me survive the pressure. They can easily get 1-3 burst heals on me when I'm in dire need for 6-14k each and then I'm good to go. I should just die, but the game mechanics don't promote that environment.

Anything under 50% will be pointless. Being a healer should be a real, tangible choice. Thus, I'm suggesting that cross heals get hit by -90% through battle spirit.

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

In my opinion, a lot of these "fixes" are over-complicated or barking up the wrong tree.
I think the core balance issue with ESO is actually much more simple, and it's something I have seen talked about here before;
Healing shouldn't scale off damage stats.

This suggestion doesn't strike me as "simple" because what you're suggesting is a complete overhaul of the healing mechanic. It won't only affect PvP (where this change is needed the most), it will also affect PvE (where this change is pointless).

It's much simpler to enact PvP changes through Battle Spirit.

Joy_Division · November 2024

I don't things are this easy.

It's very much taking a ZOS like approach and applying a blanket nerf to everything rather than identifying the actual problem and comin gup with a specific solution that addresses the core of the issue.

I do agree there is too much healing, but I dislike the term "cross healing," implying that it's somehow "wrong" for one teammate to heal another.

I also think that people who complain about "cross healing" underestimate just how much damage exists in this game. The random PuG running around with a restoration staff is not breaking PvP. Without "cross healings", even attempting to operate a siege on the top floor of the inner keep would be basically impossible - as it is, it is already basically impossible, as the people who try invariably die.

The healing that is a problem comes two specific flavors: AoE healing which was buffed massively in [5.1.5] and the stacking nature of the same HoT, which became prevalent after the [5.1.5] changes and hybridization with vigor. In no universe is Honor the Dead, a 9529 single target heal, balanced with Blessing of Restoration, which hits 6 players for 8118 health (plus providing Minor Resolve). Or even Polar eind for that matter, which ZOS specifically looked and and concluded it was just fine. The devs do not understand just how much AoE healing there is in PvP. A Templar throwing around Honor the Dead or a Dragonknight running the Cauterize morph is not the issue. It the when organized groups can in a single global cooldown output a metric crapton of immediate powerful AoE burst heals and Shields on players who are running around with a dozen Vigors and 6 Radiating Regenerations. That is what needs to stop.

The other huge issue regarding the survivability of organized groups is the Evasion buff. It was a mistake to change this. Every single halfway decent organized group player runs around with 100% uptime and thus 30% free resistance to the most dangerous type of damage they'll face and there is not a damn thing that can be done about it because this is unusual in the ZOS's buff system in that it does not have a counter to cancel it. 30% resistance to any particular type of damage is ridiculously strong, and this covers all AoE damage. Every meteor, every Shalk, every elemental explosion, every Dawnbreaker, every, Tether Bomb, every Stalking Blastbones, every Arcanist flail, every Whirlwind, etc, all of it, gets reduced by 30% before it even begins to chew through groups shield spam and stacking HoTs.

Aldoss · November 2024

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't things are this easy.

It's very much taking a ZOS like approach and applying a blanket nerf to everything rather than identifying the actual problem and comin gup with a specific solution that addresses the core of the issue.

I do agree there is too much healing, but I dislike the term "cross healing," implying that it's somehow "wrong" for one teammate to heal another.

I also think that people who complain about "cross healing" underestimate just how much damage exists in this game. The random PuG running around with a restoration staff is not breaking PvP. Without "cross healings", even attempting to operate a siege on the top floor of the inner keep would be basically impossible - as it is, it is already basically impossible, as the people who try invariably die.

The healing that is a problem comes two specific flavors: AoE healing which was buffed massively in [5.1.5] and the stacking nature of the same HoT, which became prevalent after the [5.1.5] changes and hybridization with vigor. In no universe is Honor the Dead, a 9529 single target heal, balanced with Blessing of Restoration, which hits 6 players for 8118 health (plus providing Minor Resolve). Or even Polar eind for that matter, which ZOS specifically looked and and concluded it was just fine. The devs do not understand just how much AoE healing there is in PvP. A Templar throwing around Honor the Dead or a Dragonknight running the Cauterize morph is not the issue. It the when organized groups can in a single global cooldown output a metric crapton of immediate powerful AoE burst heals and Shields on players who are running around with a dozen Vigors and 6 Radiating Regenerations. That is what needs to stop.

The other huge issue regarding the survivability of organized groups is the Evasion buff. It was a mistake to change this. Every single halfway decent organized group player runs around with 100% uptime and thus 30% free resistance to the most dangerous type of damage they'll face and there is not a damn thing that can be done about it because this is unusual in the ZOS's buff system in that it does not have a counter to cancel it. 30% resistance to any particular type of damage is ridiculously strong, and this covers all AoE damage. Every meteor, every Shalk, every elemental explosion, every Dawnbreaker, every, Tether Bomb, every Stalking Blastbones, every Arcanist flail, every Whirlwind, etc, all of it, gets reduced by 30% before it even begins to chew through groups shield spam and stacking HoTs.

I agree with this. I don't think my solution is perfect, but it would at least create a decision/consequence mechanic in a player's choice in becoming a DD vs a Healer. I agree that there's a lot of skills that make no sense when matched against each other.

I also agree with evasion. Extremely powerful buff that used to be a choice for most to source, but now is just given out freely via scribing and being grouped with an arcanist.

Also, dude:

Joy_Division wrote: »

every Stalking Blastbones

Too soon man.

Jabbs_Giggity · November 2024

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

show previous quotes

gariondavey wrote: »

I think you have the starting of a good idea here, but here is the more simple solution:

When you have the dps role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is unchanged.

When you have the healer role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells, and aoe shielding are all full strength on all targets.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

When you have the tank role selected while battle spirit is active:
Your aoe burst heals, aoe heal over time spells and aoe shielding are all reduced by 90 percent on targets other than yourself.
Your single target burst heals and single target shielding on all targets are unchanged.
Your damage output is reduced by 90 percent.

The tools for this are already in game so no need to add new stuff, just change the battle spirit functionality a bit.

Healers can heal all targets effectively but don't do damage. Healers will matter.
Dps can heal themselves or 1 person effectively but don't add to overhealing issues via nerfed aoe healing. They will be able to deal damage as usual.
Tanks will be useless but they already pretty much were in fights (if you aren't considering cyro siege stuff, which I am not).

The trinity preserved with a simple solution via in game roles and battlespirit, which already exist.

the only problem i can see with this, is there would be no reason anyone would select the tank role

95% of players would end up just selecting dps, because the healing and shielding penalties are the same as tank, but your not penalizing dmg

the other 5% would probably actually select healer being dedicated healers

but there would be no reason to ever select tank role if its the same as the dps role, but your also penalizing dmg dealt

I think this statement is accurate. To add to Healer and DPS role add an HP cap of 30K and Resistance Cap of 25K. Tanks should get an increase to recoveries with no Health cap or Resistance cap.