Maintenance for the week of December 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
Thief Mundus vs Shadow Mundus
Onajs0
✭
I have not found anything recent on the comparison between these two, so I'm going to work through the math here. Let me know if you find any issues.
Your buffed crit is C and your buffed crit damage is D. C is listed as your crit (spell / damage crit). D is listed under Advanced Stats, and is the listed Critical Damage % plus 50%, which is your base crit damage. The below calculations assume you're wearing 7 divines.
The Thief Mundus gives you an extra 9.1% crit. So, with the Thief Mundus C% + 9.1% of the time you will do damage 1+D, and (1 - (C%+9.1%)) of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be (C+9.1)(1+D) + 1 - C - 9.1 = C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1.
The Shadow Mundus gives you an extra 17% crit damage. So, with the Shadow Mundus C% of the time, you'll do damage 1+D+17%, and 1-C% of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be C (1+D+0.17) + (1-C) = C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C.
The Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS if C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1 > C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C ---> 9.1D > 0.17C
Dividing both sides by 0.17, when C < 53.53D, the Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS.
As an example, my MagSorc has buffed C of 55.2% and D is 70%. 55.2% is not less than 53.53 (0.7) = 37.47, so the Shadow Mundus is better for DPS.
If you calculate the total damage numbers, you'll find that they are actually really close, so I'm guessing you might not see a huge difference in your DPS between the two. One advantage for choosing the Thief over the Shadow, even if your DPS is slightly lower with the Thief, is that if you heal when you do crit damage (e.g., with Crit Surge skill if you're a Sorc), you'll get more healing with the Thief than the Shadow.
Are my calculations above correct? If not, please point out the mistakes. Thank you!
Your buffed crit is C and your buffed crit damage is D. C is listed as your crit (spell / damage crit). D is listed under Advanced Stats, and is the listed Critical Damage % plus 50%, which is your base crit damage. The below calculations assume you're wearing 7 divines.
The Thief Mundus gives you an extra 9.1% crit. So, with the Thief Mundus C% + 9.1% of the time you will do damage 1+D, and (1 - (C%+9.1%)) of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be (C+9.1)(1+D) + 1 - C - 9.1 = C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1.
The Shadow Mundus gives you an extra 17% crit damage. So, with the Shadow Mundus C% of the time, you'll do damage 1+D+17%, and 1-C% of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be C (1+D+0.17) + (1-C) = C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C.
The Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS if C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1 > C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C ---> 9.1D > 0.17C
Dividing both sides by 0.17, when C < 53.53D, the Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS.
As an example, my MagSorc has buffed C of 55.2% and D is 70%. 55.2% is not less than 53.53 (0.7) = 37.47, so the Shadow Mundus is better for DPS.
If you calculate the total damage numbers, you'll find that they are actually really close, so I'm guessing you might not see a huge difference in your DPS between the two. One advantage for choosing the Thief over the Shadow, even if your DPS is slightly lower with the Thief, is that if you heal when you do crit damage (e.g., with Crit Surge skill if you're a Sorc), you'll get more healing with the Thief than the Shadow.
Are my calculations above correct? If not, please point out the mistakes. Thank you!
1
-
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have not found anything recent on the comparison between these two, so I'm going to work through the math here. Let me know if you find any issues.
Your buffed crit is C and your buffed crit damage is D. C is listed as your crit (spell / damage crit). D is listed under Advanced Stats, and is the listed Critical Damage % plus 50%, which is your base crit damage. The below calculations assume you're wearing 7 divines.
The Thief Mundus gives you an extra 9.1% crit. So, with the Thief Mundus C% + 9.1% of the time you will do damage 1+D, and (1 - (C%+9.1%)) of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be (C+9.1)(1+D) + 1 - C - 9.1 = C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1.
The Shadow Mundus gives you an extra 17% crit damage. So, with the Shadow Mundus C% of the time, you'll do damage 1+D+17%, and 1-C% of the time you'll do damage 1. So your damage number will be C (1+D+0.17) + (1-C) = C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C.
The Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS if C + CD + 9.1 + 9.1D + 1 - C - 9.1 > C + CD + 0.17C + 1 - C ---> 9.1D > 0.17C
Dividing both sides by 0.17, when C < 53.53D, the Thief Mundus is better than the Shadow Mundus for DPS.
As an example, my MagSorc has buffed C of 55.2% and D is 70%. 55.2% is not less than 53.53 (0.7) = 37.47, so the Shadow Mundus is better for DPS.
If you calculate the total damage numbers, you'll find that they are actually really close, so I'm guessing you might not see a huge difference in your DPS between the two. One advantage for choosing the Thief over the Shadow, even if your DPS is slightly lower with the Thief, is that if you heal when you do crit damage (e.g., with Crit Surge skill if you're a Sorc), you'll get more healing with the Thief than the Shadow.
Are my calculations above correct? If not, please point out the mistakes. Thank you!
In an organized group you easily reach the Crit damage cap of 125% without using Shadow mundus, which makes it a waste.
In solo or less optimized play, Shadow may be helpful.2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Onajs0 Tldr It's not that simple!
I think your modellation is flawed, because it is incomplete. You do not include several variables that have a significant influence on the balance between the Shadow and the Thief. And you fail to discuss the edge cases, when your variables approach their respective boundaries. What it comes down to is opportunity costs. And they can change dynamically in this game.
The first set of variables are the ones that influence your output, too. Basically every character stat that has an influence on damage. WD/SD, Penetration, MaxStat and even Damage done.
The next set is determined by your character's class. Nightblades have several bonuses to crit damage and chance, for example. Templars, Wardens and Arcanists have bonuses to crit damage, Sorcerers and Necromancers to crit chance and Dragonknights not at all. That obviously has an influence on the opportunity costs between the mundus stones.
In addition every class has access to different buffs via abilities and passives. Minor Prophecy, Savagery and Force are especially interesting in your discussion.
The third set of variables is everything surrounding your equipment choices. That is not limited to bonus lines in themselves, but the fact that most powerful and sought after 5 piece bonuses have conditions, or stack building requirements or damage procs that can or cannot crit. This in turn means an out of combat build is significantly weaker than an in combat and fully buffed character.
This also includes the weight choices for your armor, because of the respective armour's passives that give crit chance and crit damage respectively. And of course your weapon choices.
The edge case discussion is very long and determined by not only the above mentioned plethora of variables, but also your ability as player and the circumstances under which you play, namely the presence and competence of your group mates.
Generally you should assume, that the Thief is best choice for group activity and the Lover for Solo activities. The Lover is best, because outside of edge cases like dedicated crit damage oriented Nightblades it offers the best ratio between effect and opportunity cost.
Also, if you want to decide purely between Thief and Shadow and are not interested in anything else, that this decision might be influencing, then you need to base it in your stats without either of the two Mundus bonuses.
The Uesp.net build editor can help with that, too.
I hope I could help with my little rant. 😅Edited by Zodiarkslayer on November 9, 2024 11:36AMIf anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.5