The game needs a complete stats/characteristics overhaul
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edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭You are asking them to remove gameplay out of the game. All because you don't want to take the time to learn it. That isn't how games work.
Your reasoning and understanding of how things are setup now is poor as well. I would encourage you to read up more on how the many resistances work and how they are amplified and countered.
ESO has a loyal player base that loves interacting with and understanding the system they have in place. A total rehaul is unnecessary and a bit late in the game and massive risk for a 10 year old game.
I would encourage you to read up on some guides and understand how resistances and penetration works right now and maybe try to look at things from the points of view of other players and their playstyles.Edited by edward_frigidhands on October 4, 2024 12:23PM7 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
I have to agree here.1 -
Aggrovious✭✭✭I agree with OP. The stats are confusing. I should not have to alt tab to skinny cheeks or youtube on how much critical damage I have. It should plainly listed it fully in the tool tip. You have for ex. 40% critical damage, but your base critical damage is 50%, but we can't be bothered listing the 90% critical damage like a normal game, why?
Overhaul to the tool tip we desperately need (and I am sure I am missing alot of other points that also need to be listed)- we should know the max resistance we can have with a visible cap and how much over we are. (ex. 33001/33000).
- we should know the max critical damage we can have with a visible cap and how much over we are (ex. 145/125).
- we should know the max penetration we can have with a visible cap and how much over we are (ex. 18300/18200).
- we should know the max sprint speed we can have with a visible cap and how much over we are (ex. 240/200).
These are very reasonable changes that will help new/current players out tremendously. It took awhile to understand the hidden base stats and that ain't right dude.
@ZOS_Kevin I hope your team can see this and give us a tool tip overhaul at some point.
Making a game fun should be a priority. Making a game balanced should not come at the expense of fun.2 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭ESO needs a major overhaul like the veritable hole in the head. Rather, it needs a period of stability, during which the networking and/or Akamai issues that are plaguing some players can be resolved. Otherwise, if major changes were made to the game then it would be even harder to track down and fix whatever the root cause of the connection and performance issues are.
Tbh an overhaul to stats calculation when done right could actually improve server performance and stability considerably. Like that level squared(!) has no business being there in critical chance formula, and is a very expensive mathematical operation in terms of computing performance.
Not sure about OP's specific idea for it, but I'd be definitelly down for zos overhauling base combat math to simplify the excess calculations. That being said considering how long they are taking to just finish hybridization (which ultimately was supposed to lead to merger of weapon/spell stats and buffs, which would alone shave off alot of calculations by not having to calculate everything in the double) I would not hold my breath for them attempting such thing in any predictable future.
To play devil's advocate here: According to many years of patch notes they've made such changes quite a number of times. Honestly, In my own experience there's little that would help anyway. Memory access is the biggest bottle neck in almost every single case - not computation time. Computers today are absurdly, unimaginably powerful. Usually, real optimzation boils down to optimizing memory access times though cache-friendly structures and algorithms and in more recent years, reducing data dependencies in calculations so that multi-threading can be utilized. I'm 100% sure that's a large part of what the re-architecturing was about.
Also, a bit of a nitpick: When you say "level squared(!)" do you mean "level * level" or "factorial(level*level)"? I can't imagine for the life of me that a factorial would be used in any combat calculation simply on the grounds that it doesn't even make sense. Like, what would it even be modeling? I think it's more likely that the source of the formula was simply incorrect in their assumptions.
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Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The (!) was for emphasis.
I really doubt that they actually calculate that number every time you do something, though. Level doesn't even matter anymore, everyone is scaled up to level 66 anyway - through the "battle-leveling" system, ESO doesn't scale the world to you, it scales you to the world.1 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper0 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.7 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
Agreed.
Also, to be honest, some of my most fun in the game comes from hanging out in discord with my friends theorycrafting new builds and comps for clearing content. I don't really want the game telling me what to do or how to do it.3 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
Do you do harder content at all? Or are you primarily here for the story content?0 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
Then there's nothing to worry about for you, you don't need a high end build to successfully complete those. Enjoy your quests.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.2 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
Then there's nothing to worry about for you, you don't need a high end build to successfully complete those. Enjoy your quests.
But it’s also impossible to “enjoy” them normally because of the crooked quests with crooked stealth.0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
Do you do harder content at all? Or are you primarily here for the story content?
There is no complex gameplay in principle. There is pseudo-complex gameplay, where the developers could not come up with anything better than giving the enemy huge damage or a lot of health, or completely ignoring the balance (only applies to PvP).
The only one where there is at least something interesting, at least some interesting gameplay is the isolation sanctuary. It is really interesting and really difficult there, but it is impossible to play it without a good company with whom you can discuss the necessary build and tactics. I liked it, but the random team just left because of the spider boss)Edited by HoffmannTheBest on October 4, 2024 5:20PM0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
Do you do harder content at all? Or are you primarily here for the story content?
There is no complex gameplay in principle. There is pseudo-complex gameplay, where the developers could not come up with anything better than giving the enemy huge damage or a lot of health, or completely ignoring the balance (only applies to PvP).
The only one where there is at least something interesting, at least some interesting gameplay is the isolation sanctuary. It is really interesting and really difficult there, but it is impossible to play it without a good company with whom you can discuss the necessary build and tactics. I liked it, but the random team just left because of the spider boss)
I'm not sure what isolation sanctuary is, but there are some very mechanically intense fights once you get into trials trifectas (and some dungeons for that matter).
If you have only done normal content you would not have seen this. You do not need optimized builds until you start getting into the newest hard modes and trifectas.2 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
I cannot help but notice that you wrote needs to be completed instead of "I want to complete". Judging by your posts you do not really want to engage with the game anymore, so why do you need do anything that does not bring you joy or causes frustration?7 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
I cannot help but notice that you wrote needs to be completed instead of "I want to complete". Judging by your posts you do not really want to engage with the game anymore, so why do you need do anything that does not bring you joy or causes frustration?
You play games for the sake of the game, I play games for the sake of the story. You skip the story, skip the dialogue, and I delve into the story and study the lore.0 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
I cannot help but notice that you wrote needs to be completed instead of "I want to complete". Judging by your posts you do not really want to engage with the game anymore, so why do you need do anything that does not bring you joy or causes frustration?
You play games for the sake of the game, I play games for the sake of the story. You skip the story, skip the dialogue, and I delve into the story and study the lore.
It honestly sounds like you don't even enjoy that. You write posts like this is a chore for you. Find another game you actually enjoy.4 -
Trejgon✭✭✭✭Also, a bit of a nitpick: When you say "level squared(!)" do you mean "level * level" or "factorial(level*level)"? I can't imagine for the life of me that a factorial would be used in any combat calculation simply on the grounds that it doesn't even make sense. Like, what would it even be modeling? I think it's more likely that the source of the formula was simply incorrect in their assumptions.
As the other poster said, the "(!)" was emphasis on the sillyness of that being there, not part of mathematical formula. I was specifically refering to the calculation made to determine which amount of critical rating is required to reach 100% critical chance based on your character level. While I saw a number of similar formulas in other games to factor in player level to make it easier for lower lever players to hit higher crit chances, ESO is the only one I know of that does it twice and in multiplicative manner leading to aforementioned level squared.
Three ways to write that particular formula, sourced from uesp wiki:
MCV = (2 * Level * (100 + Level))))
MCV = (2*(100*Level + Level^2))))
MCV = (200*Level + 2*Level^2))))
On a side note here, as far as I am aware, unless someone managed to datamine exact calculations, we have no way to know which exact order of operations is being made, formula was to my knowledge reverse engineered from observing critical rating and critical rates across specific levels, and the variations of it are mathematical conversions.I really doubt that they actually calculate that number every time you do something, though. Level doesn't even matter anymore, everyone is scaled up to level 66 anyway - through the "battle-leveling" system, ESO doesn't scale the world to you, it scales you to the world.
To be perfectly honest I was unable to track documentation of those systems for upscaling from One Tamriel. Leveled gear still has values corresponding to it's level, and the whole point of such scaling is to make it so you can mantain consistent critical chance while you level up and get gear with higher crit rating.
Additionally, having in mind how earlier this year ZOS tried to sell doubling the frequency of automated updates in their database, as "improvement to database performance" does not exactly instill hope in me that those calculations are not being needlessly rerun on the fly.
But, since we don't have access to source code and stuff, it is obviously impossible for us to tell if there are not much worse performance hindrances than exact math formulas being more complex than they need to be. My point there was that the math being as complex as it is definitely does not help, and streamlining that one out, could be beneficial to server performance.0 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭
As the other poster said, the "(!)" was emphasis on the sillyness of that being there, not part of mathematical formula. I was specifically refering to the calculation made to determine which amount of critical rating is required to reach 100% critical chance based on your character level. While I saw a number of similar formulas in other games to factor in player level to make it easier for lower lever players to hit higher crit chances, ESO is the only one I know of that does it twice and in multiplicative manner leading to aforementioned level squared.
Three ways to write that particular formula, sourced from uesp wiki:
MCV = (2 * Level * (100 + Level))))
MCV = (2*(100*Level + Level^2))))
MCV = (200*Level + 2*Level^2))))
On a side note here, as far as I am aware, unless someone managed to datamine exact calculations, we have no way to know which exact order of operations is being made, formula was to my knowledge reverse engineered from observing critical rating and critical rates across specific levels, and the variations of it are mathematical conversions.
...
But, since we don't have access to source code and stuff, it is obviously impossible for us to tell if there are not much worse performance hindrances than exact math formulas being more complex than they need to be. My point there was that the math being as complex as it is definitely does not help, and streamlining that one out, could be beneficial to server performance.
Ah, well then to clarify a little: The server isn't running on a 6502 manufactured sometime in 1979. At least, I think it isn't!
A square operation isn't expensive. It's probably one of the cheapest things you can do, really. Assuming they were to actually use a squaring function and not just hard-code the multiplication, the function call would have more overhead than the math operation itself. And even then the compiler would simply optimize it away entirely. Hardware for the last twenty-five+ years has natively supported floating-point multiplication and can usually do it in one to two clock cycles. And if programmed with parallelization in mind using things like SIMD you can do as many as eight in the same amount of time. GPUs are even better since they are specifically built to do these things in parallel.
That might no be relatable to some so to put it into perspective: If every single registered account, all 20-odd million, were to log on and attack each other every single GCD with 100% crit chance. That extra multiplication would contribute only a couple dozen extra nanoseconds to the total frame-time of the server. A nano-second being one-billionth of a second. The server would be upside down and on fire for sure, but it wouldn't be the result of some extra wayward multiplications or squaring operations.
You might have been confusing squaring with square-rooting. In that case, yes. Finding the square-root can be significantly more expensive but again it's not like the 1990's anymore. We have dedicated hardware that supports this and it really is an amazingly, supremely, unimaginably fast thing to calculate. As I said before, pretty much all performance bottlenecks in the modern era (outside of insane numbers of calculations like, say, simulating the particle-particle interactions at the subatomic level inside of a star) usually are the result of accessing memory. Computers, even the ones you are using to read this right now are measured in tera-flops. Trillions of operations. You quite literally have more raw computing power in your average gamer's desktop than the entire world did in 1990. It probably crunches more calculations in a single frame to process your average AAA game than all of humanity ever did from the time we first invented numbers and counting up until just a few decades ago. Part of the reason I'm stressing this is because I really do feel that there is no reason this game can't support the larger battles in Cyrodil. At least not from a computation standpoint. On the other hand networking and bandwidth would be an absolute nightmare. Databases might also be a real issue but admittedly I know less about that stuff when it comes to performance.
Edited by Sluggy on October 5, 2024 12:01PM1 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.
There is zero information. They didn't even bother to explain in detail how to create guilds, which is why I had to go online and look for information. F1 is the most useless piece of the game, in which there is zero useful information and informative text. Just an abstract piece of textHoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.
I don't enjoy games that shove a bunch of stuff in, don't explain how it works, and give it to the players.At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
The lifespan of a game is not an indicator, there are a lot of ancient MMOs, but there is no online. The only indicator is the number of players and the last time most of them logged in. I have several friends who haven't logged in for more than six months because it is terribly boring and dull in terms of gameplay. You can't even do crafting because of the stupidity of having to study the features that are not needed to craft an item. Plus, the PvP content is just as boring and dull, unbalanced and crooked. Dungeons are also stuffed with crookedness, where meat atronachs deal 120k damage through a block and kill the entire team in one go.
I log in myself to pick up daily rewards and complete crafting quests, and just sell some trash, and then I go calmly play Morrowind, where everything is logical and clear how it works. Without any fabulous numbers that have no meaning at all, without one-shots, without nonsense with huge damage per second and other imbalances that the developers call complexity. Complexity needs to be implemented through gameplay, and so that it is intuitive from the very beginning of the game, and not like now, where you have to run to the Internet, watch a ton of guides, look for information outside the game, and the gameplay itself is as primitive as a ciliate slipper
With all due respect - why are you even here if there's nothing you enjoy about the game and your friends are long gone?
Even if you love the world / the setting it looks like there isn't anyhing to fulfil your needs. And as said before it's highly unlikely that they change the core concept of numbers and everything that comes with it.
I still have a ton of expansions whose story needs to be completed.
I cannot help but notice that you wrote needs to be completed instead of "I want to complete". Judging by your posts you do not really want to engage with the game anymore, so why do you need do anything that does not bring you joy or causes frustration?
You play games for the sake of the game, I play games for the sake of the story. You skip the story, skip the dialogue, and I delve into the story and study the lore.
It honestly sounds like you don't even enjoy that. You write posts like this is a chore for you. Find another game you actually enjoy.
So maybe because the game is a routine? Instead of interesting things - a routine. The player logs in and begins to grind resources in order to get gold to buy sets that are not available to everyone. Not all players have all the DLC to craft for themselves. Moreover, there is no way to just come and craft what you want, you are forced to study features for days / weeks / months that are not needed at all to craft an item with the desired feature.
Now, I am studying the last feature "Help of the Gods" of the shield to complete a master order for a shield with the feature "Fortitude", where you need to learn all the features to create a shield. Isn't this a routine? Routine.
Or the grind of dungeons begins to get dungeon sets. It took me 20 trips to get the right belt from the right set, although the developers promised a few years ago that the chance of getting set items that are not in the collection would be higher. But I didn't see this at all, I got every element of the set, but not the belt.
The grind of quests begins to get style pages, since the prices for these style pages on the market are high, and there is no opportunity to earn money without being in guilds. For three weeks now, I have been grinding Galen's quests, because I need the Mornar house style, but the same pages drop. I am missing a helmet, shoulder pads, leggings, belt.
The guild does not take low-level players, or sets unrealistic sales requirements - from 200k per week of sales, this is unrealistic. No newbie will be able to sell that much and will be kicked out.
In order to craft items for the house, you also need to grind, because the chance of resources for crafting items for the house dropping is unknown. Sometimes 20 logs will not drop heartwood, and sometimes 3-4 will drop from 5 in a row.
Everything I listed is routine, and routine is the main plague of any game)
I'm not saying that you need to give everything to players at once, otherwise they will lose interest. Personally, I lose interest in playing any game when I already have everything.
I have interest in going through open dungeons, just dungeons, because there are often clues there, and this reward is much cooler than any junk that drops from bosses)0 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »So maybe because the game is a routine?
To your entire reply aside from the last line you typed, which only vaguely suggests ESO has something you might like, I direct you to my post, that you just replied too:You write posts like this is a chore for you. Find another game you actually enjoy.0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »So maybe because the game is a routine?
To your entire reply aside from the last line you typed, which only vaguely suggests ESO has something you might like, I direct you to my post, that you just replied too:You write posts like this is a chore for you. Find another game you actually enjoy.
When I get a time machine, I'll definitely find it. There isn't a single game that interests me at the moment. And those that interested me - I have already gone through them far and wide.
Well, how. I was interested in TESO until I plunged into a bucket of imbalance, bugs and crookedness.Edited by HoffmannTheBest on October 5, 2024 12:53PM0 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Then find a new hobby. One you enjoy. Cause it sure as heck doesn't sound like you enjoy this.
Life's to short to read bad books and all that.0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭Then find a new hobby. One you enjoy. Cause it sure as heck doesn't sound like you enjoy this.
Life's to short to read bad books and all that.
Besides, who, if not a dissatisfied player, will not let the developers become ossified with a cavalier attitude towards the players? There are a lot of examples where sycophants praise the developers, and all the negative ones are blocked/shut up, and then all the projects become simply disgusting. That's why I sometimes like to go into such games, play them and show bugs, shortcomings, etc.
In some places they fix it, and in others they don't care. When Morrowind (DLC) came out, there was a bug with guards, they attacked endlessly even when I didn't have a fine. I informed the developers through the report system, and literally a day later an update was released fixing this error. Here are those warm memories of TESO that warmed my soul.0