Goblins...why beeg.

disky · September 21

I'm pretty sure banekin have existed since the beginning of the game, so why are goblins so large and humanoid? Couldn't goblins use the same (or a similar) rig and animation set to the banekin instead? I'm sure this has been asked before but like...how does this make sense?

Syldras · September 21

They weren't exactly tiny in Oblivion either:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:OB-creature-Drunken_Goblin_Nagastani.jpg
(Slightly weird picture, but I think the barrel and bottles are a good size comparison).

Soarora · September 21

They’re a little small but not Banekin small. Sizes in ESO don’t always make sense though as a fault of game design (making bosses really really tall).

zaria · September 21

Syldras wrote: »

They weren't exactly tiny in Oblivion either:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:OB-creature-Drunken_Goblin_Nagastani.jpg
(Slightly weird picture, but I think the barrel and bottles are a good size comparison).

Yes they are small as in smaller than bosmer and hunchback but way larger than banekin, they also are humanoid who use weapons and armor.
And love the drunken goblin, can not remember from game but 20 years ago

Toast

[snip]
[edited for inappropriate content]

Carcamongus · September 21

Rieklings would be closer to banekin size, though a bit larger. Well, Skyrim rieklings, since ESO's are just goblins in all but name. And an old complaint of mine is that goblins in this game aren't goblinny enough. They're just hunched bodies with human proportions. I loved the rieklings from Dragonborn (so much so I gave them that neat mead hall) but on ESO they're just food for my weapons, the battle shovel and the 2-h sword Liam Neeson (long story).

Parasaurolophus · September 21

Well, we should first raise the issue that goblins in ESO have a completely non-canonical appearance.

laniakea_0 · September 21

disky wrote: »

I'm pretty sure banekin have existed since the beginning of the game, so why are goblins so large and humanoid? Couldn't goblins use the same (or a similar) rig and animation set to the banekin instead? I'm sure this has been asked before but like...how does this make sense?

I think you're conflating them with gnomes.

TheMajority · September 22

why do you think that goblins even need to be small in the first place? i don't get it

TaSheen · September 22

TheMajority wrote: »

why do you think that goblins even need to be small in the first place? i don't get it

Well, some of the "fairy tales" about goblins seemed to make them considerably smaller than humans. Then again, belief in "fairy tales" (as much as I hid myself in the books as a child) is mostly a matter of choice.

In other words, goblins are not "real world" at all, so everyone has an idea what they look like, and everyone's idea is probably different from anyone else's idea.

spartaxoxo · September 22

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Well, we should first raise the issue that goblins in ESO have a completely non-canonical appearance.

What do you mean?

Varana · September 22

What even is the "canonical appearance"?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Goblin#Gallery

SkaiFaith · September 22

Soarora wrote: »

They’re a little small but not Banekin small. Sizes in ESO don’t always make sense though as a fault of game design (making bosses really really tall).

"Making bosses really really tall" - You mean we don't have that right?
I always felt bosses in ESO are too small compared to other games. They don't feel menacing.
Stating ESO bosses are tall would confuse me... (Talking in general, aside from those who rightfully are big enough).

I loved Dragons in Elsweyr. Now that's a menacing thing! But in overland there is no other enemy comparable to that. Dungeons/Trials? Some.

katanagirl1 · September 22

Goblins seem to be the right size to me, at least compared to the other games I have played.

Banekin size would be much too small.

disky · September 24

laniakea_0 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

I'm pretty sure banekin have existed since the beginning of the game, so why are goblins so large and humanoid? Couldn't goblins use the same (or a similar) rig and animation set to the banekin instead? I'm sure this has been asked before but like...how does this make sense?

I think you're conflating them with gnomes.

Absolutely not. Just about every goblin I've ever seen in any piece of media is a small, green, monstrous creature, and that includes the TES games. In ESO they're human-sized but with a hunched posture. For reference:

D&D:

WoW (Goblin is fourth from left):

Pathfinder:

Oblivion:

Their depiction in ESO doesn't make sense from a traditional perspective or even within the canon of the TES series. And I'm not expecting it to change, but you have to admit it's a curious choice to make, especially since we have a model and animation rig that would be better suited to the archetype already built into the game, which could be reskinned into the form we generally recognize as goblin.

PrinceShroob · September 25

Elder Scrolls goblins are not small.

Notably, Fedris Hler in Tribunal states "[Goblins] vary in size from smaller than a Bosmer to larger than a Nord." Ordinary goblins are generally the same size or slightly smaller than most races, while their warlords are huge.

It doesn't really matter whether these goblins are larger than goblins in other series, just as vampires or elves are different. It's not like there's a goblin commission that regulates their size in media.

disky · September 25

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Elder Scrolls goblins are not small.

Well, have you ever actually SEEN a goblin in TES that wasn't? Have they ever been depicted any other way? I'd love to be proven wrong.

And in addition to size, it's also about their body proportions. If you look at a goblin in ESO, they clearly have human proportions which I've never seen a goblin ever having. With the exception of the LotR movies, which I believe had to do with the practical effects nature of the production.

Syldras · September 25

disky wrote: »

Well, have you ever actually SEEN a goblin in TES that wasn't? Have they ever been depicted any other way? I'd love to be proven wrong.

There are several screenshots in this very thread, including in the post you just quoted.

disky · September 25

Syldras wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Well, have you ever actually SEEN a goblin in TES that wasn't? Have they ever been depicted any other way? I'd love to be proven wrong.

There are several screenshots in this very thread, including in the post you just quoted.

I think the context of that screenshot matters. I don't believe they're giant by nature. And any other goblin depictions linked in the thread, aside from ESO, are obviously more traditional goblin in size/proportion.

Syldras · September 25

disky wrote: »

I think the context of that screenshot matters

The last screenshot is from Oblivion, from this quest:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Killing_Field
The very big goblin is a goblin warlord, that's the reason he is bigger than average. But the slightly smaller one, that is still human-sized, is a "normal" one.

spartaxoxo · September 25

Oblivion

ESO

sources
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Goblin_(Oblivion)
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Goblin_Slave
https://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-4-oblivion-best-goblin-quests/
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-walkthrough/1100-6147085/

They look close to me?

disky · September 25

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They look close to me?

I mean, I don't really agree...the screenshot at the bottom just looks like a dude, adopting a "feral" posture. And I think the goblins in that screenshot at the top are from the same scenario in the previous post, or at least it looks like it.

spartaxoxo · September 25

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They look close to me?

I mean, I don't really agree...the screenshot at the bottom just looks like a dude, adopting a "feral" posture. And I think the goblins in that screenshot at the top are from the same scenario in the previous post, or at least it looks like it.

First one is same scenario. Different angle though.

The goblins in Oblivion also look hunched over. Face shape is a bit different and ESO ones are buffer, but they are about the same size.

Edit

Here's a buffer one from Morrowind. Although this one's a war chief.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Durgoc

Syldras · September 25

I think what makes a difference is the head shape. In Oblivion, their heads looked bigger and wider, giving them a less human appearance, while in ESO it's very close to the normal skull shape that the playable races have, which makes it look like it's just a different skin over the usual character skeleton.

But their size is about the same. Just proportions look different.

spartaxoxo · September 25

Syldras wrote: »

I think what makes a difference is the head shape. In Oblivion, their heads looked bigger and wider, giving them a less human appearance, while in ESO it's very close to the normal skull shape that the playable races have, which makes it look like it's just a different skin over the usual character skeleton.

But their size is about the same. Just proportions look different.

Yeah. I think it's the skull and the scrawnier arms of the regular goblins in Oblivion.

disky · September 25

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I think what makes a difference is the head shape. In Oblivion, their heads looked bigger and wider, giving them a less human appearance, while in ESO it's very close to the normal skull shape that the playable races have, which makes it look like it's just a different skin over the usual character skeleton.

But their size is about the same. Just proportions look different.

Yeah. I think it's the skull and the scrawnier arms of the regular goblins in Oblivion.

It's also the proportions of the digits, the claws, the skin color and texture, the sunken eyes, pronounced brow, nose shape, mouth shape...goblins don't always look the same across the fantasy genre but they do at least tend to have certain similar, recognizable features which the ESO goblins lack. And I do think size is also one of those features.

spartaxoxo · September 25

The goblins in ESO vary more in skin color but there's definitely green ones running around. They also have sunken eyes, it's more subtlety done but it's there. The texture is going to be different because it's different games....still disagree about the size. I don't think TES ones are small.

Edit

I also agree on the noses. They did the same with orc noses.