Negate Magic

SilverIce58 · September 17

How do people feel about this skill? I feel like it's a little boring. In my opinion, the damage and healing could just be combined into one morph, while the other could have something like a lingering silence on the enemies for like 3 seconds, or maybe the negate is placed on yourself and it moves with you (Similar to Eye of the Storm). It's just felt to me like a stale skill in need of an update.

El_Borracho · September 17

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

SilverIce58 · September 17

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

El_Borracho · September 17

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

Agreed. I'm fine with some skills having no utility in PVE or PVP. I don't ever see this being a PVE skill though. Barrier is far more effective, and given the recent record of changes, my fear would be them making Negate somewhat useful then making Barrier weaker.

SilverIce58 · September 17

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

Agreed. I'm fine with some skills having no utility in PVE or PVP. I don't ever see this being a PVE skill though. Barrier is far more effective, and given the recent record of changes, my fear would be them making Negate somewhat useful then making Barrier weaker.

How are they comparable? Barrier is a damage shield, and Negate is a stun in PvE and a silence in PvP.

WuffyCerulei · September 17

I think it needs to have some actual use in pve outside of a 12-second stun non-elite adds. The tooltip states that it removes ground AOEs and prevents more from being cast in it, but that legitimately only works in pvp. If it completely did that in pve, it’d be pretty damn broken. So maybe have it remove a certain number of AOEs, excluding certain ones that require mechanics to get rid of, and prevents said AOEs from doing damage in the Negate for its allotted time.

El_Borracho · September 17

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

Agreed. I'm fine with some skills having no utility in PVE or PVP. I don't ever see this being a PVE skill though. Barrier is far more effective, and given the recent record of changes, my fear would be them making Negate somewhat useful then making Barrier weaker.

How are they comparable? Barrier is a damage shield, and Negate is a stun in PvE and a silence in PvP.

I was assuming you would want Silence to prevent magic damage. Is there another reason to use it? Since neither stuns nor Silence work against bosses in PVE, you would have to make it so the Silence it provides would work against bosses in order for it to have a purpose in PVE. I don't need a skill that Silences mobs.

So if you made it useful against bosses, like Barrier, I would expect the devs to decrease the effectiveness of Barrier so you wouldn't have an overperformance issue by combing the two.

YandereGirlfriend · September 17

The morphs could easily be combined and then another, PvE use found for the freed-up morph slot.

ViggyBoi · September 18

its an interesting flavorful concept with a unique effect not seen anywhere else from any other class or source. that being said its effect is virtually pvp exclusive. not necessarily a bad thing but aside from that the two morphs are rather underwhelming considering that regardless of what you pick theres no other utility to be found here. not saying we need more sources of silence, but combining the dot/hot morphs and having a true "pve morph" wouldnt at all be a bad idea as mentioned in the thread. "Create a zone of magic suppression that heals allies and harms allies" doesn't seem too overloaded in the slightest. As for what it could do in pve, im pretty sure its also capable of removing harmful negative effects on the ground? But I dont think that applies to boss aoe's aka the actual ones you might benefit from removing. Maybe some equivalent to a localized minor/major evasion? That way theres some sort of aoe interaction without it also affecting pvp too much considering most things that would be nerfed from the evasion buff would have been removed from the ground or silenced anyway. I wouldnt be against a completely unique buff honestly, give sorcs something new to bring to groups besides minor crit they share with nbs or charged lightning.

Soarora · September 18

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think it needs to have some actual use in pve outside of a 12-second stun non-elite adds. The tooltip states that it removes ground AOEs and prevents more from being cast in it, but that legitimately only works in pvp. If it completely did that in pve, it’d be pretty damn broken. So maybe have it remove a certain number of AOEs, excluding certain ones that require mechanics to get rid of, and prevents said AOEs from doing damage in the Negate for its allotted time.

It does work in PvE but only in very old content, like I think it works in BRF but not DoM. You can negate NPC negates in DSA for sure. I wish it worked in all/most 4m content at least because you're spending an entire ult just to remove AoEs. It's more for funsies (I love negating the negates in DSA) but then it doesn't even work in most content.

SilverIce58 · September 18

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

Agreed. I'm fine with some skills having no utility in PVE or PVP. I don't ever see this being a PVE skill though. Barrier is far more effective, and given the recent record of changes, my fear would be them making Negate somewhat useful then making Barrier weaker.

How are they comparable? Barrier is a damage shield, and Negate is a stun in PvE and a silence in PvP.

I was assuming you would want Silence to prevent magic damage. Is there another reason to use it? Since neither stuns nor Silence work against bosses in PVE, you would have to make it so the Silence it provides would work against bosses in order for it to have a purpose in PVE. I don't need a skill that Silences mobs.

So if you made it useful against bosses, like Barrier, I would expect the devs to decrease the effectiveness of Barrier so you wouldn't have an overperformance issue by combing the two.

The silence on bosses would be better if it could apply a debuff that would give it a reason to be used in PvE but not take away from Barrier. Like maybe it could apply Maim or Brittle as a way of "negating" damage or their armor. They could work in conjunction as one will help to debuff the boss, and the other to actually stop damage. One morph could be called Negate Magic with the silence/stun, and the other could be called Negate Power (Maim) or Negate Armor (Brittle).

Turtle_Bot · September 18

Negate used to be mandatory in PvE a very long time ago, since it used to be the only thing that could actually completely stop/prevent boss mechanics from happening. Unfortunately when that interaction got fixed, the ability got nothing to compensate for it (bosses are all immune to CC) outside of abysmal damage/healing over time

It's very hard to come up with something that would be balanced unfortunately while keeping it's theme of silencing enemies because it becomes either completely OP (pre-nerf) or completely useless (current) in PvE (probably why we haven't seen any work attempted on the skill yet).

El_Borracho · September 18

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its a PVP skill. I don't think I've ever seen it used in PVE

And it never will if it doesn't get an update.

Agreed. I'm fine with some skills having no utility in PVE or PVP. I don't ever see this being a PVE skill though. Barrier is far more effective, and given the recent record of changes, my fear would be them making Negate somewhat useful then making Barrier weaker.

How are they comparable? Barrier is a damage shield, and Negate is a stun in PvE and a silence in PvP.

I was assuming you would want Silence to prevent magic damage. Is there another reason to use it? Since neither stuns nor Silence work against bosses in PVE, you would have to make it so the Silence it provides would work against bosses in order for it to have a purpose in PVE. I don't need a skill that Silences mobs.

So if you made it useful against bosses, like Barrier, I would expect the devs to decrease the effectiveness of Barrier so you wouldn't have an overperformance issue by combing the two.

The silence on bosses would be better if it could apply a debuff that would give it a reason to be used in PvE but not take away from Barrier. Like maybe it could apply Maim or Brittle as a way of "negating" damage or their armor. They could work in conjunction as one will help to debuff the boss, and the other to actually stop damage. One morph could be called Negate Magic with the silence/stun, and the other could be called Negate Power (Maim) or Negate Armor (Brittle).

That would be awesome, need more sources of brittle. Good call

Yudo · September 19

In pvp, it is likely the highest value ultimate.
In pve, not so much.

I have tried to use Absorption Field after they buffed it to affect 12 players for fun in trials where ppl are very stacked, certainly lots of healing, but ultimately (

) it is often not that useful compared to other options.

ZhuJiuyin · September 19

Suppression Field and Absorption Field need to be redesigned. Sorc does not need the treatment provided by Absorption Field whether in PVE or PVP. Absorption Field should be modified into an advanced version similar to Borrowed Time, which causes direct damage and stunning targets within range. This will make Absorption Field useful in PVP.

The disadvantage of Suppression Field is that the damage is too low. The effect of silencing enemy players should be removed, the damage caused should be greatly increased, and Major Brittle should be caused to the target to provide Sorc with better AOE damage in PVE situations, and Allowing it to compete with Summon Storm Atronach's Major Berserk. And since this is a floor skill, it won't have too serious an impact on PVP.

YandereGirlfriend · September 19

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Suppression Field and Absorption Field need to be redesigned. Sorc does not need the treatment provided by Absorption Field whether in PVE or PVP. Absorption Field should be modified into an advanced version similar to Borrowed Time, which causes direct damage and stunning targets within range. This will make Absorption Field useful in PVP.

The disadvantage of Suppression Field is that the damage is too low. The effect of silencing enemy players should be removed, the damage caused should be greatly increased, and Major Brittle should be caused to the target to provide Sorc with better AOE damage in PVE situations, and Allowing it to compete with Summon Storm Atronach's Major Berserk. And since this is a floor skill, it won't have too serious an impact on PVP.

This is a really cool idea. Absorption Field really should deal like massive Heal Absorption since it's literally in the name of the skill. Heal Absorption is also a super under-used modality of damage in the game, particularly in PvP, where it's sources are generally tied to poor skills.

Major Brittle on Suppression Field would absolutely get used in PvP. Though, that's not exactly the worst thing ever. And it's time that PvE users of the ultimate got a bone tossed their way.