People playing Raijin should be banned.

Ienaore · August 25

This deck is absolutly the worst. People playing it should be banned from ESO lol.

Change my mind.

SeaGtGruff · August 25

I find it to be both fun (when I can use it to my advantage) and frustrating (when my NPC opponent is able to use it against me)-- just like every other patron and its deck.

valenwood_vegan · August 25

But why stop there? Ban anyone who uses any deck or strategy we disapprove of. On the negative side, we might then run out of opponents pretty quickly.

spartaxoxo · August 25

Nobody should ever be banned from this or any game for playing the game the way it is intentional designed. Bad balance and design is the fault of the developers, not players.

Personofsecrets · August 26

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Nobody should ever be banned from this or any game for playing the game the way it is intentional designed. Bad balance and design is the fault of the developers, not players.

A major part of why I will never be able to join the class of people known as designers/developers is because I don't understand why a turn 3/4 Marketplace or Hagraven Matron should ever be a possibility.

I've come to think that what I'll call "big design" which just means the collaborative efforts of everyone who "belongs" inherently is able to select against people who aren't right for their program based on the recognition of outsider ideas. Believing in "skill" being the major factor that should guide design is a disqualifying idea and such ideas ooze out of language even in not-so-explicit ways.

If anyone ever spoke about rolling a dice in a meeting, I wouldn't be able to jump up and clap my hands enthusiastically enough to not be found out. My nervous eyes darting around the room would probably be noticed too.

GuuMoonRyoung · August 26

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

But why stop there? Ban anyone who uses any deck or strategy we disapprove of. On the negative side, we might then run out of opponents pretty quickly.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Nobody should ever be banned from this or any game for playing the game the way it is intentional designed. Bad balance and design is the fault of the developers, not players.

They are joking... the tone of the post is obvious...

valenwood_vegan · August 27

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

They are joking... the tone of the post is obvious...

I guess my sarcasm wasn't, how sad. But I did actually have a point, which is that there have always been and always will be such complaints... oh no my opponent uses that deck. Oh no, my opponent uses that class... that skill... that strategy... that's kind of how competitive games work.

Might it be more useful to identify what is allegedly unbalanced and suggest changes?

AnduinTryggva · August 27

The issue that I particularly have with this patron is that SOME players use this patron only to troll - and I mean trolling as such. They don't use it to win a match. They troll other players only WITHOUT to attempt to win the match other way than trying to make their opponent concede.

That is their sole target: Make the other one feel miserable and push them to concede (and accept a time penalty).

I now know the names of the users who do this (funnily with names that I would place into a specific geographic region in terms of name origin) but as you only learn that name when you already are inside the match I cannot withdraw without that time penalty.

The only thing that could be done about it WITHOUT PUNISHING THE VICTIM OF THAT TROLL is to modify the patron so that trolling is no longer possible.

My suggestion is to increase the costs of re applying the patron too fast and too often. Maybe there are other ideas here to prevent trolling without completely destroying the game idea behind that patron. I don't have any other.

GuuMoonRyoung · August 27

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

They are joking... the tone of the post is obvious...

I guess my sarcasm wasn't, how sad. But I did actually have a point, which is that there have always been and always will be such complaints... oh no my opponent uses that deck. Oh no, my opponent uses that class... that skill... that strategy... that's kind of how competitive games work.

Might it be more useful to identify what is allegedly unbalanced and suggest changes?

I understand your point but there is a very valid reason for not liking Rajin card which is very different than using certain skills or spells or applying certain strategies in pvp. I will tell you what I did, I literally trolled a very high skilled player for over 30 minutes, the match was already decided on the first 5 rounds when he got one after another good cards. So I just trolled him with continuous Rajin patron calls, I even bought extra patron call and used the patron twice in the same round just to be a ***. It is very very easy to troll people with this card set. It is not just "Hurr durr.. git good" problem.

Personofsecrets · August 27

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

The issue that I particularly have with this patron is that SOME players use this patron only to troll - and I mean trolling as such. They don't use it to win a match. They troll other players only WITHOUT to attempt to win the match other way than trying to make their opponent concede.

That is their sole target: Make the other one feel miserable and push them to concede (and accept a time penalty).

I now know the names of the users who do this (funnily with names that I would place into a specific geographic region in terms of name origin) but as you only learn that name when you already are inside the match I cannot withdraw without that time penalty.

The only thing that could be done about it WITHOUT PUNISHING THE VICTIM OF THAT TROLL is to modify the patron so that trolling is no longer possible.

My suggestion is to increase the costs of re applying the patron too fast and too often. Maybe there are other ideas here to prevent trolling without completely destroying the game idea behind that patron. I don't have any other.

The line between trolling and playing to win with the button is very thin. One particular player has purchased midnight raid and then spammed the button multiple times against me. One time they even won.

I'm fairly certain that this player played in such a way not because of their higher understanding of the game, but because of poor sportsmanship and a desire to lash out. But, as I mentioned, one of the games they won, so who is to say that they were not "playing" correctly with the additional upside of being a gremlin?

AnduinTryggva · August 27

Personofsecrets wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

The issue that I particularly have with this patron is that SOME players use this patron only to troll - and I mean trolling as such. They don't use it to win a match. They troll other players only WITHOUT to attempt to win the match other way than trying to make their opponent concede.

That is their sole target: Make the other one feel miserable and push them to concede (and accept a time penalty).

I now know the names of the users who do this (funnily with names that I would place into a specific geographic region in terms of name origin) but as you only learn that name when you already are inside the match I cannot withdraw without that time penalty.

The only thing that could be done about it WITHOUT PUNISHING THE VICTIM OF THAT TROLL is to modify the patron so that trolling is no longer possible.

My suggestion is to increase the costs of re applying the patron too fast and too often. Maybe there are other ideas here to prevent trolling without completely destroying the game idea behind that patron. I don't have any other.

The line between trolling and playing to win with the button is very thin. One particular player has purchased midnight raid and then spammed the button multiple times against me. One time they even won.

I'm fairly certain that this player played in such a way not because of their higher understanding of the game, but because of poor sportsmanship and a desire to lash out. But, as I mentioned, one of the games they won, so who is to say that they were not "playing" correctly with the additional upside of being a gremlin?

Playing to win is to collect prestige points and/or trying to turn all patrons to one's favor. Trying to win means attempting to fulfil game winning conditions. It does NOT mean trolling the opponent into conceding.

You clearly can tell one from the other.

I have played one of the players known to me to troll others who on multiple occasions ignored his or her opportunity to win by patrons during one single match and simply prefered to spam more and more rhajin.

El_Borracho · August 27

The patron should have an escalating cost when in the "Favored" position. So 3, then 4, then 5, and so on so the spamming becomes at the cost of taking real cards from the tavern.

Other than that, the deck is one of 2 that have cards that eliminate agents. Alessia is the other, and by comparison, Rajhin has much more utility. Oddly, if you want to hurt a Rajhin player, choose Alessia and Mora. Rajhin can't keep up with the power and Alessia wrecks the "Look at all my agents erasing your power" strategy