(PVE) A class like the Sorcerer being more optimal on stam is a crime against humanity.

Arcturus · August 11

A class which should be all about wielding magic and all things arcane being reduced to a dual wield/2h stam monkey doesn't do the class description justice.

It's supposed to be themed after destruction magic and conjuration and it should never be better off as a stamina based warrior using mostly off-class skills + spammable with just summoned pets and a crystal frag.

Having options is fine but reaching a point where a magicka oriented class is far better on stam for most of the game content is frustrating to people that bought the idea of playing a wizard character in things like endgame content. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

Hardly anyone will probably care but I'm increasingly frustrated every day by this.

Zodiarkslayer · August 11

Crime against humanity?

Pick an Elf. Problem solved.

Sluggy · August 11

Stop right there, criminal scum!

Ingenon · August 11

ZOS advertises "Go anywhere, do anything, and play your way in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."

You can role play with any build that you want. However, if you want to do harder content as a DPS, you will probably find it easier if you limit your choices to a handful of builds that out perform the rest.

Arcturus · August 11

Ingenon wrote: »

ZOS advertises "Go anywhere, do anything, and play your way in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."

You can role play with any build that you want. However, if you want to do harder content as a DPS, you will probably find it easier if you limit your choices to a handful of builds that out perform the rest.

Yes, that's the point of my post. A sorcerer wanting to do harder content as a DPS should fall into a handful of MAGICKA builds with staves that outperform the rest. It should not fall into a monkey with kitchen knives build.
Sorcs with swords and daggers should fall into the overland roleplay fantasy area of the game, not endgame.

Vaqual · August 11

In my timeline "mag"sorc is doing just fine.

Ingenon · August 11

Arcturus wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of my post. A sorcerer wanting to do harder content as a DPS should fall into a handful of MAGICKA builds with staves that outperform the rest. It should not fall into a monkey with kitchen knives build.
Sorcs with swords and daggers should fall into the overland roleplay fantasy area of the game, not endgame.

I know multiple folks in trials guilds that have stamina sorcerer builds. Why should my guild mates have to make new gear, level new skills, and potentially pay for a race change token? Just because you want to change something just for you that is already working for multiple people?

I think that people who want to start doing harder PvE content should start with a proven build. Talk to the folks in the trials guilds doing the harder content, and see what they are using. Once you get into it, if you like doing harder PvE content, then maybe use the armory station to make a second build for that character, and tweak some stuff to suit your play style.

ZhuJiuyin · August 12

Ingenon wrote: »

I know multiple folks in trials guilds that have stamina sorcerer builds. Why should my guild mates have to make new gear, level new skills, and potentially pay for a race change token? Just because you want to change something just for you that is already working for multiple people?

I think that people who want to start doing harder PvE content should start with a proven build. Talk to the folks in the trials guilds doing the harder content, and see what they are using. Once you get into it, if you like doing harder PvE content, then maybe use the armory station to make a second build for that character, and tweak some stuff to suit your play style.

Following the logic of "what works doesn't need to change", we shouldn't ask for any class balance since everything works.
But is this really reasonable? Let most dps in the LOG record only be stam Arcanist? Let PVE NB be almost extinct in the end game?
It's definitely not unreasonable to ask for improvements to magicka Sorc. What's more, making Sorc no longer just a support dps in HM will also benefit all types of Sorc, right? It's like making Warden no longer just a healer in the end game.

What's more, magicka sorc has too many skills that need to be improved, Mages' Fury's poor execute conditions, Boundless Storm's forgotten range correction, and Lightning Splash's too low damage. Many Dark Magic skills are almost forgotten in PVE. Suppression Field and Daedric Tomb could have been better AOE damage. The over-buffed Daedric Prey left Sorc bound only to pets, and the no-pets build existed only in memories.

I 100% agree that magicka sorc needs buffs, (In-Game Description): "Sorcerers can use conjuration and destruction spells to hurl lightning bolts and create shock fields, wield dark magic to snare and stun, and summon Daedric combat followers from Oblivion to assist them." So there is no reason for sorc to become a circus performer with two daggers, a monkey and a bird. Shooting knives, making monkeys juggle, and commanding birds to sing, these are not what sorc should do.

Pelanora · August 12

Merlin didn't use knives or summon ugly support creatures. Neither did Gandalf.

sleepy_worm · August 12

From Morrowind:

Ingenon · August 12

My experience with ZOS since I started played during Morrowind DLC is that they never get class balance to where all the players are satisfied. After every class balance patch, multiple folks post in the forums that their favorite class/build still needs more buffs, and/or the other peoples favorite class/build needs nerfed.

Oh, and most DPS in the LOG record are the same build? This happens every patch, the folks doing the harder content figure out what works best, and many of them start playing the build that performs best for this patch.

In my opinion, class balance is a waste of time for both ZOS and for the players.

alpha_synuclein · August 12

Before hybridization we had 2 years of mag meta. The pendulum will swing eventually.
Or so I hope

Arcturus · August 12

Ingenon wrote: »

Arcturus wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of my post. A sorcerer wanting to do harder content as a DPS should fall into a handful of MAGICKA builds with staves that outperform the rest. It should not fall into a monkey with kitchen knives build.
Sorcs with swords and daggers should fall into the overland roleplay fantasy area of the game, not endgame.

I know multiple folks in trials guilds that have stamina sorcerer builds. Why should my guild mates have to make new gear, level new skills, and potentially pay for a race change token? Just because you want to change something just for you that is already working for multiple people?

I think that people who want to start doing harder PvE content should start with a proven build. Talk to the folks in the trials guilds doing the harder content, and see what they are using. Once you get into it, if you like doing harder PvE content, then maybe use the armory station to make a second build for that character, and tweak some stuff to suit your play style.

Why should we make new gear, pay for a race token just because you think stamsorc dominating over magsorc is ok and you're overly lazy to get a couple transmutes and craft different gear?

I've been playing since 2017, I'm 3600CP. Over the last few years more than one class and subclass has been completely erased from endgame and that shouldn't be defended.

I also know multiple folks in my pve guilds that are extremely bored of seeing the same stuff over and over and are extremely annoyed at not being able to use their mains anymore for the roles they want to fill.

A stale endgame with the same builds on repeat is NOT working for the vast majority of the playerbase. Everyone can agree class identity is all but gone and the trial logs don't lie.

Yudo · August 12

The days of "sorcerer mages wielding unparalleled magic" is long gone since hybridisation, sadly.
Now you get "stamina orcs in leather leggings dual wielding dagger" casting stronger spells than the mage above, sadly.

Arcturus · August 12

Ingenon wrote: »

My experience with ZOS since I started played during Morrowind DLC is that they never get class balance to where all the players are satisfied. After every class balance patch, multiple folks post in the forums that their favorite class/build still needs more buffs, and/or the other peoples favorite class/build needs nerfed.

Oh, and most DPS in the LOG record are the same build? This happens every patch, the folks doing the harder content figure out what works best, and many of them start playing the build that performs best for this patch.

In my opinion, class balance is a waste of time for both ZOS and for the players.

You see, the thing is that "same build" for a certain class should be different for the "same build" of a different class and that meta build for X class should fall into the resource that characterizes that class, if said class actualy emphasises that in its description.

Meta endgame sorc should be magicka. Why? Bceause the whole point of picking that class was to play as a mage/spellcaster and the description of the class reflects that.

Other classes aren't so black and white, but for the ones that are, such as sorc or nightblade, people should be able to play them for what they are supposed to be.

A nightblade picks up the interest of players wanting to play as a thief/rogue, not a dps incapable endgame healer. Yet that is the situation they find themselves in when they reach endgame.

I don't know how to put this in a more clear way, this is just the way things are right now, and they shouldn't be.

Zodiarkslayer · August 12

@Arcturus
Seriously now. I have seen Magsorc parses between 135k and even 150k in U42!
150k!
What are you even complaining about?

Arcturus · August 12

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@Arcturus
Seriously now. I have seen Magsorc parses between 135k and even 150k in U42!
150k!
What are you even complaining about?

With a staff on both bars?

Sluggy · August 12

Pelanora wrote: »

Merlin didn't use knives or summon ugly support creatures. Neither did Gandalf.

But Gandalf *did* have a big honkin' sword sooooo...

Ingenon · August 12

I am not a fan of an endless loop of balance patches that boost this build and nerf some other build.

And you know what happens next. The most popular build for PvE endgame switches to what is meta for the patch. And then folks post again that PvE endgame is stale with the same builds on repeat.

Do you want to always change to a new race, class, and gear for the characters you play for PvE endgame every balance patch?

BananaBender · August 12

Ingenon wrote: »

I am not a fan of an endless loop of balance patches that boost this build and nerf some other build.

And you know what happens next. The most popular build for PvE endgame switches to what is meta for the patch. And then folks post again that PvE endgame is stale with the same builds on repeat.

Do you want to always change to a new race, class, and gear for the characters you play for PvE endgame every balance patch?

The meta in end game PvE hasn't changed now in over a year, and it has been the most one dimensional and boring meta yet. So yes, I would like to change my class and gear. Race plays such a small role after hybridization that it's not worth changing.

Ingenon · August 12

I'm curious. How often does the meta need to change class and gear? Once a year? It seems like it doesn't take long for most folks to switch their character to the new meta. How long does it take to get bored?

Myself, I'm tired of the change class and gear balance changes, since ZOS will not release a class change token. So sometimes I end up deleting an alt and starting another. And it takes 180 days to fully level a horse with gold.

BananaBender · August 12

Ingenon wrote: »

I'm curious. How often does the meta need to change class and gear? Once a year? It seems like it doesn't take long for most folks to switch their character to the new meta. How long does it take to get bored?

Myself, I'm tired of the change class and gear balance changes, since ZOS will not release a class change token. So sometimes I end up deleting an alt and starting another. And it takes 180 days to fully level a horse with gold.

Of course it's personal how long it takes for someone to get bored. But this arcanist meta in particular has been extremely boring in my, and in many other end game player's opinion. Arcanist just throws out all the weaving and rotation practice you've had in the game out the window, which contributes heavily to how boring this meta has felt.

In previous metas I was okay changing to some other class once I got bored of the main one, but in this meta it just doesn't work as well as before. Arcanist is so much better compared to other classes over all and in most groups the strats and buffs used are tailored to arcanists.

This will vary from person to person, but I think changing the meta around once a year would be fine.

Vulkunne · August 12

Sorc is out of control. My stamblades don't stand a chance against one. Any more if I'm solo NB and see a Sorc come around I just leave. No contest, no point in even trying to stop them.

Quethrosar · August 14

i hate stamsorc since weapon skills like rapid strikes needs can be hard to land on monsters without making you look up from the floor in the camera view. i have a 119k parse on it but much prefer a lower parse hitting magsorc.