BG versus IC and Cyrodil

eMKa8 · July 2

I have been playing Bgs constantly and feel comfortable enough now to play in cyrodil and IC, however it still feels very overwhelming because you sometimes have to fight 30 people in very small buildings which makes it very difficult to see what is happening.

How does the difficulty cap of BGs compare to openworld pvp?

Are players in cyrodil and ic much better and is it much more difficult then BG?

chessalavakia_ESO · July 2

The PvP in Battlegrounds uses a degree of MMR and pulls in players that are doing it to get some XP fast in addition to those that like Battlegrounds PvP.

The PvP aspects in Cyrodiil and Imperial City pulls in primarily people that have been PvPing for years.

You'll get the occasional periods of exception such as during Mayhem but, most of the time the people fighting in Cyrodiil are significantly better than those in Battlegrounds.

In my past experience, the people of Blackreach tend to be a bit worse than those on Gray Host. So, if you play when the population is high enough and want an easier experience you might choose Blackreach.

divnyi · July 3

It's different kind of PvP and different meta.

BG requires more sustain because non-stop fights in 4v8 fashion. It doesn't require higher toughness because you don't have 10 minute rides to combat.

Cyro requires more immediate impact (heavier burst stacking) and higher amount of toughness, but can give a slack on sustain (and CP stars give even more slack). Because if you killed someone instantly (or died instantly) its gg and you are not gonna see them anytime soon.

IC is closer to Cyro (tougher chars die less & lose telvars less, good gankers farm on squishies) but BG builds don't feel as bad as in Cyro because less time to get back, and extra sustain can be used to farm NPCs. I wish they didn't screw up noCP with noproc though.

Don't worry about what is more difficult, all the modes are challenging if you get strong players against you.
It's a question of a personal preference.

Firstmep · July 3

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

The PvP in Battlegrounds uses a degree of MMR and pulls in players that are doing it to get some XP fast in addition to those that like Battlegrounds PvP.

The PvP aspects in Cyrodiil and Imperial City pulls in primarily people that have been PvPing for years.

You'll get the occasional periods of exception such as during Mayhem but, most of the time the people fighting in Cyrodiil are significantly better than those in Battlegrounds.

In my past experience, the people of Blackreach tend to be a bit worse than those on Gray Host. So, if you play when the population is high enough and want an easier experience you might choose Blackreach.

Bgs are basically usually a few competent players farming ppl trying to get their dailies done. Sadly the population is too low for any effective mmr.

That being said in primetime, at least on EU, theres usually enough decent players to fill out at least 1 bg, and then I think it's a bit more difficult then cyro.
A lot of the pvp minded ppl who have been playing for years only know how to zerg or pvdoor so a lot of the time they are barely more competent than pve players trying to get their daily box in bgs.

Ic also has more inexperienced players these days, mostly to get their dailies done, for scripts and such.

Bammlschwamml · July 3

eMKa8 wrote: »

How does the difficulty cap of BGs compare to openworld pvp?

Are players in cyrodil and ic much better and is it much more difficult then BG?

There are no difficulty levels in pvp. Most other players are not behaving like npcs in a dungeon. You can encounter better or worse players and groups everywhere you go.

If you don't like to lose, you can prepare yourself by learning as much as possible about the game. Practice your combos and resource management. Fight against friends until you feel comfortable on your char and don't have to look on your bars all the time. Fight as many fights as you can to gather experience and improve your situational awareness. Find ways to deal with different situations. Not everyone can be prepared for every kind of fight all the time, so you should get a feeling for when it's time to attack, when it's time to run and when you can just give up and respawn. Find out what kind of playstyle you enjoy. Don't get stuck on one char. Team up with other players. Especially in Cyrodiil it's a lot more efficient to help each other out than running around on your own.

But you can learn, practice and prepare as much as you want, some people are just always going to be faster, more intelligent or better prepared.

It's ok to die in pvp. Even if you did nothing wrong. Sometimes it's just the internet connection, bad luck or your children/pets turning off the tv... If you can accept that, you are good to go wherever you want and still have fun.

Unfortunately there are no "difficulty" levels in pvp. Gray host (the most populated campaign in Cyrodiil) might be overwhelming at first, with all the groups and siege and everything. Performance issues might drive you crazy. But i personally find ic, bgs and empty campaigns boring, and you are going to end up fighting all kinds of players anyway, so i would recommend to just jump into Cyrodiil and see what happens.

DrNukenstein · July 16

BGs are the most controlled environment. 4v4v4 unless a slot is empty. It's the best place to see how your build functions in a relatively controlled environment with a standard group, and your individual contribution to a team is a bigger slice than what you contribute to cyrodil or IC raid group. Exceptions being the terrible matchmaking that doesn't do a job at distributing classes. The combat is non stop so you get lots of data points.

Cyrodil is a numbers game when ball groups aren't involved. What you do matters 1/3rd as much when you're working with 3 times the people. Otherwise, the 12 man's who treat PvP like trial content like to pretend that running around in their spread-sheet pot-luck comp while they listen to one neckbeard that probably hasn't showered in weeks is a display of talent.

IC has the best small PvP, but it's rare because it's mostly gankers and guilds on field trips. When it's good though, there really isn't anything better in all the videogames. Would benefit a lot from 4 man group caps, detection outposts to reduce ganking, and a bounty system beyond telvar payouts. This is the battle city we all want, but do not want in real life.

Necrotech_Master · July 16

divnyi wrote: »

It's different kind of PvP and different meta.

BG requires more sustain because non-stop fights in 4v8 fashion. It doesn't require higher toughness because you don't have 10 minute rides to combat.

Cyro requires more immediate impact (heavier burst stacking) and higher amount of toughness, but can give a slack on sustain (and CP stars give even more slack). Because if you killed someone instantly (or died instantly) its gg and you are not gonna see them anytime soon.

IC is closer to Cyro (tougher chars die less & lose telvars less, good gankers farm on squishies) but BG builds don't feel as bad as in Cyro because less time to get back, and extra sustain can be used to farm NPCs. I wish they didn't screw up noCP with noproc though.

Don't worry about what is more difficult, all the modes are challenging if you get strong players against you.
It's a question of a personal preference.

this

good news is no proc is going away for good next update lol

divnyi · July 17

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Would benefit a lot from 4 man group caps, detection outposts to reduce ganking, and a bounty system beyond telvar payouts.

Decent PvP detection pots or ingredients sold for telvars would be a really nice addition for this game mode.
Saying this as NB main.

Also they could move all the quest givers down to the sewers, it's seriously annoying to have to climb ladder up-down 6 times to get all the dailies.

Necrotech_Master · July 17

divnyi wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Would benefit a lot from 4 man group caps, detection outposts to reduce ganking, and a bounty system beyond telvar payouts.

Decent PvP detection pots or ingredients sold for telvars would be a really nice addition for this game mode.
Saying this as NB main.

Also they could move all the quest givers down to the sewers, it's seriously annoying to have to climb ladder up-down 6 times to get all the dailies.

agree on the IC quest givers

whats kind of funny is half of the quest givers move down into the sewers for the turn in part already, only a few of them tell you to turn in at a different npc

SaffronCitrusflower · July 17

eMKa8 wrote: »

I have been playing Bgs constantly and feel comfortable enough now to play in cyrodil and IC, however it still feels very overwhelming because you sometimes have to fight 30 people in very small buildings which makes it very difficult to see what is happening.

How does the difficulty cap of BGs compare to openworld pvp?

Are players in cyrodil and ic much better and is it much more difficult then BG?

I don't play much BG's, but it seems like when I do there are a lot of pretty strong min/max players in other groups, so in my view if you can hack it in BG's you can do fine in Cyrodiil. IC, on the other hand, is pretty much an NB gankfest and I think that's why so few players spend much time in IC.

DrNukenstein · July 17

divnyi wrote: »

Decent PvP detection pots or ingredients sold for telvars would be a really nice addition for this game mode.
Saying this as NB main.

Also they could move all the quest givers down to the sewers, it's seriously annoying to have to climb ladder up-down 6 times to get all the dailies.

I feel fine using my 1 effect detex that cost like tree fiddy for 4. Wormwood and whitecap. Dirt cheap and all you need if you have major sorcery on your bars. I'm saying it would be cool if there were little outposts you can climb, and while on top you have detect pot vision (but can't use skills on them from there, or use skills on people on the outpost). Good for going into the menu, moving stuff around, getting intel on gankers or just ending a fight you don't want to continue.

What I'm getting at here is I think the biggest ingredients for toxicity in IC are the "friend diff" and inability to end a fight that is both going on forever and not fun. A small safe zone in every district like these detect outposts would be awesome for the latter. If you're sick of a fight just go there and bag at them from safety. Both egoes only take half a hit. A 4man cap would limit the ability to coordinate guild field trips that ruin the zone for an hour.

quest givers being in the sewer is overdue QOL. think of the poor guild lackeys that have to pick up the quests for their club every (day of the week) for their field trip.

Dem_kitkats1 · July 18

BGS - If teams are actually fighting eachother, and you're at the cap of whatever minimal "experience" mmr system they have, it's actually some of the toughest combat in the game, imo. Dealing with sustain, and not relying on cp will give you the skills needed to venture into other pvp areas.

CYRO - It can be as challenging or easy as you want it to be. I'd join a group or follow your faction's pug for the first few times of playing to get a feel for the flow of combat there (how to siege, or defend keeps and outposts, repair them, etc), to learn locations, and to learn the objective of Cyro. After that you can do anything from soloing to group play, purely search for combat with other players, or go on an AP farm session. You have a lot of options as to how much or little combat you want to engage in, which is nice.

There's good players and groups in all campaigns, but Gray Host is the most active, and is why you'll find more of the most competitive players there. Blackreach is a little more chill. Anytime I've joined Ravenwatch it's been very low pop, allowing one group to decimate everything.

IC - Very low pop, lots of gankers, a few 1vXers. If they don't kill you within a few hits get used to running around and chasing players abusing los. And the sewer map can be kind of a maze at first. If there are other players down there, or are farming bosses, the combat can be challenging, otherwise its an easy telvar farming session with not a lot going on. Overall, it's not my kind of combat. If you choose to try it, detect pots are your friend, as others have suggested.

No matter which activity you do, there seems to always be a varying degree of difficulty depending on your own proficiency, and goal, and just in the player base itself.

divnyi · July 18

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I feel fine using my 1 effect detex that cost like tree fiddy for 4. Wormwood and whitecap. Dirt cheap and all you need if you have major sorcery on your bars.

Interesting. Although it's not only about sorcery/brutality, but about regen buffs too.
But ok true, I didn't know those reagents are that cheap. I will keep that in mind.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · July 30

Day 1 MNB and BG enjoyer also from day 1. A good BG player in theory will be better suited for IC and Cyro if you can break down your fights and the situational awareness needed to do well in BGs. For starters, adding CP gives you a lot more of a crutch that you don’t have in BGs, you should be able to sustain much easier and have more mitigation / damage.

That all being said, you’re going to face more people potentially at a time, and a totally new terrain / environment. Use what works in BGs and apply that to cyro / IC..things like kiting, line of site, resource management.

I play probably 90% solo so my take is from a 1vX standpoint but you want to pick and choose your fights, time your ultimate and target you want to focus for things like executes.

Some things I recommend depending on your class but a form of immovable is extremely beneficial in these outnumbered situations. I run immovable detect pots as well as race against time.

Hope this is helpful!

Syiccal · July 30

I prefer Bgs, no lag the game runs how it should and I prefer the smaller scale combat. Xbox eu

El_Borracho · July 31

BGs are also no CP, so if you jump into a CP Cyrodiil or Imperial City on you BG build, you might be in for pain.