Skingrad street view comparison 2E 582 - 3E 433

MaisonNaevius · July 24

Exterior

Chapel District

"Hightown district"

Other

TaSheen · July 24

?

EdjeSwift · July 24

I'd guess they're comparing Oblivion and ESO.

TaSheen · July 24

Yes, but why?

SickleCider · July 24

TaSheen wrote: »

Yes, but why?

Funsies?

I did find it interesting. 👍

KaosWarMonk · July 24

Why not? Yes is interesting to some of us.

HappyTheCamper · July 24

I appreciate the post! Good picture comparisons

LunaFlora · July 24

fun ^_^

katanagirl1 · July 24

Skingrad feels so much smaller to me now, but it was so long ago that I played Oblivion.

davidtk · July 24

TaSheen wrote: »

Yes, but why?

I ask myself this with a lot of posts here on the forum. And yet here they are, so why? Because why not.
Actually interesting, for someone, I'd welcome more ESO vs Oblivion vs Skyrim comparisons here. Because why not.

So... its...
about 700 - 800 years before TES IV Oblivion?
about 900 - 1000 before TES V Skyrim?

Sleep724 · July 24

Unless I’m seeing it wrong, I’m glad to see it’s not exactly the same as has been the case with some previous DLC’s.

vsrs_au · July 24

Why? Because it's good nostalgia. Anyone remember the crazy guy who asked you to meet him behind the chapel at midnight, and who was convinced everyone was after him?

emilyhyoyeon · July 24

I've been wondering since the chapter dropped about how the two versions compare, especially since I didn't recognize the layout of the two halves connected with the road between, as is in Oblivion; and it looked like it's just simply not there in ESO. The OP has confirmed it for me and I'm sad because I love the Oblivion layout, but also I understand it's reasonable that there would/could be big differences.

also @MaisonNaevius I've seen your posts a lot over the years and I've always loved your imperial based insights on stuff in different TES games; they're my favorite race. So thanks for your posts

Tra_Lalan · July 24

Cool idea, thanks for that.

xclassgaming · July 24

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Skingrad feels so much smaller to me now, but it was so long ago that I played Oblivion.

well, half of it is missing since it hasn't been built yet at the time when gold road takes place so thats most likely why

EttinTheBreton · July 24

Love this idea! Nice shots

derkaiserliche · July 24

pretty awesome, i only miss not having the rosethornhall as house

Supreme_Atromancer · July 24

I love posts like this, thanks for sharing!

I also think the world builders have done a stunning job. Its kept the feel, and the changes probably make sense, given the time difference. The zone is a joy to be in.

vsrs_au wrote: »

Anyone remember the crazy guy who asked you to meet him behind the chapel at midnight, and who was convinced everyone was after him?

Yes! I was creeped out by that quest. His level of delusion was... unsettling.

Syldras · July 24

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Yes! I was creeped out by that quest.

More than by Falanu Hlaalu's dialogue, or the house full of undead in middle of town, or Salmo the Baker who sells nothing (and placing bread in his inventory will cause the game to crash as soon as he tries to eat it)?

Skingrad was a very weird town in Oblivion...

GuuMoonRyoung · July 24

How does time not affect anything in ES universe? More than thousand years apart yet the architecture is still the same. Not to mention the clothing, weaponry, culture and so on.

Syldras · July 24

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

How does time not affect anything in ES universe? More than thousand years apart yet the architecture is still the same. Not to mention the clothing, weaponry, culture and so on.

The static culture and technology is strange, but I wouldn't be bothered so much by medieval buildings lasting for 800 years.

If you look at this town, for example, the city wall and towers are about 600 years old, many houses are older, the oldest one is 800 years old:

One time I've been there, the gate house was for sale. Alas, I had business elsewhere and couldn't move to the countryside. I still regret it at times...

Or how old do you think these houses in Italy are?

GuuMoonRyoung · July 24

Syldras wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

How does time not affect anything in ES universe? More than thousand years apart yet the architecture is still the same. Not to mention the clothing, weaponry, culture and so on.

The static culture and technology is strange, but I wouldn't be bothered so much by medieval buildings lasting for 800 years.

If you look at this town, for example, the city wall and towers are about 600 years old, many houses are older, the oldest one is 800 years old:

One time I've been there, the gate house was for sale. Alas, I had business elsewhere and couldn't move to the countryside. I still regret it at times...

Or how old do you think these houses in Italy are?

And we know that they are old architecture and they don't build structures like these anymore. You can see the difference in current time architecture and old architecture here.

But in ES, nothing changed, absolutely nothing changed. I find it very odd, considering, there are hints of people tinkering around with technologies that seem to be of "advanced time period"(not using the word modern) in the ESO, which is in 2nd era, I find it surprising that none of it were found in 3rd or 4th era.

MaisonNaevius · July 24

So... Skingrad has expanded and retracted several times in its history according to a book seen in Gold Road.

And from my own analysis, the buildings in Skingrad as well as the walls in ESO are not the same as in TES IV. Note also that ESO buildings are more realistic (wooden corbels and not stone for example).

The only building that has remained the same, apart from some minor modifications, is Skingrad Castle and its bridge. Everything else was rebuilt or modified in 747 years.

I will say that ZOS reacted to player comments for Solitude in Greymoor. Solitude was very, very similar and has changed little... Except for the loss of decorative ornaments and a few buildings.

A first progress is seen in Blackwood. Leyawiin is similar from the outside. But the layout of the streets is not similar to TES IV with the exception of the wayshrine square and, for evident reason, the great Chapel.
Even the walls are a remake of the city walls from TES IV.

Skingrad is the one that strays furthest from what we know of TES IV. While remaining identifiable (great Chapel and castle, on rocky ledges).

Syldras · July 24

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

And we know that they are old architecture and they don't build structures like these anymore. You can see the difference in current time architecture and old architecture here.

It may depend on culture and region, of course, but even today, if a building inside an old town is damaged or destroyed (by a fire or earthquake, for example), it is often rebuilt in the old style (but with today's technology of course) to retain a consistent architectural style, if possible. Simplified rebuilding was mostly a matter of costs, for example after a war. Or when a big area was completely destroyed, so there was nothing to save anyway.

Other than that, new architectural styles usually show up when building completely new settlements (demolishing of old settlements is rare, as it rarely makes sense costwise, if the buildings are in a usable condition). Which is only neccessary when there is a population growth. Hard to say how it looks in Tamriel, as we have no information about that.

Actually, it is rare to see new settlements on Tamriel's map in general. I mean, there are places where a settlement has turned to a ruin in a game set later on the timeline, and one prominent example of a new-built town would be Ald'ruhn, which is a town (built in the then current Redoran style) in TES3, while it is still nothing more than an Ashlander camp in ESO, but in general it seems to be a much rarer occurrence than it is in the real world.

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

I find it very odd, considering, there are hints of people tinkering around with technologies that seem to be of "advanced time period"(not using the word modern) in the ESO, which is in 2nd era, I find it surprising that none of it were found in 3rd or 4th era.

Strictly seen, TES is a story of technological regression. There were more "futuristic" sounding technologies, but they have been lost and forgotten. The Dwemer are the prime example for that.

MaisonNaevius wrote: »

And from my own analysis, the buildings in Skingrad as well as the walls in ESO are not the same as in TES IV. Note also that ESO buildings are more realistic (wooden corbels and not stone for example).
The only building that has remained the same, apart from some minor modifications, is Skingrad Castle and its bridge. Everything else was rebuilt or modified in 747 years.

But how much of that is lore and how much is simply due to differences in game technology at time of release?

AllenaNightWood · July 25

Neat

ArchMikem · July 25

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

How does time not affect anything in ES universe? More than thousand years apart yet the architecture is still the same. Not to mention the clothing, weaponry, culture and so on.

The static culture and technology is strange, but I wouldn't be bothered so much by medieval buildings lasting for 800 years.

If you look at this town, for example, the city wall and towers are about 600 years old, many houses are older, the oldest one is 800 years old

One time I've been there, the gate house was for sale. Alas, I had business elsewhere and couldn't move to the countryside. I still regret it at times...

Or how old do you think these houses in Italy are?

And we know that they are old architecture and they don't build structures like these anymore. You can see the difference in current time architecture and old architecture here.

But in ES, nothing changed, absolutely nothing changed. I find it very odd, considering, there are hints of people tinkering around with technologies that seem to be of "advanced time period"(not using the word modern) in the ESO, which is in 2nd era, I find it surprising that none of it were found in 3rd or 4th era.

There's a hypothesis behind Technological stagnation in High Fantasy. You can blame Magic. Human civilization changed and advanced out of the necessity to make life easier and better. In Tamriel, Magic exists and is the answer to a very great many problems. With Magic being a readily available solution, there's no urgency to invent more advanced tools.

The Dwemer were the most advanced society on the Continent, even though they too utilized Magic they for some reason pushed toward combining it with Machinery. Achieving Steam Engines is a massive step actually.

MaisonNaevius · July 25

Syldras wrote: »

But how much of that is lore and how much is simply due to differences in game technology at time of release?

Skingrad Castle is a perfect example. The structure in general is the same as in TES IV. The east door has been redone however.
Considering ZOS's work for Solitude and Leyawiin, I think ZOS would have redone the TES IV buildings for Skingrad if they wanted, making them a little nicer.

I don't want to talk nonsense, but I believe the buildings in TES IV was remade. Finally, we had new buildings.

Skingrad is a city in constant movement. It stretches, shrinks... So I imagine that buildings in the city have also been subject to demolition and reconstruction.. There is also the risk of fires.

BetweenMidgets · July 25

Nice post. Fun to see the comparisons.

Varana · July 25

I don't think it's overly useful to think too long and hard (or at all) about Medieval Stasis. It's a standard trope in Fantasy (and some Science Fiction as well) and has narrative reasons, not worldbuilding ones. A lot of Fantasy is not about realism but about flair, or vibes, or atmosphere, or whatever you want to call it - it has to feel like Fantasy, and (unfortunately), that usually means pseudo-medieval Europe plus some "exotic" locales tacked on. Even the Imperials in TES are basically pseudo-medieval with some Grecoroman-ish window-dressing. And that's not because the worldbuilders can't do or think of anything else. It's because for most people, it stops being classic Fantasy when you deviate from the cliché too much. Dwemer steampunk is already pushing the boundaries, and there's a reason why it's a forgotten past.

And for more subtle differences, you sure can do that - at the cost of recognisability. You want Skingrad to feel at least close to TES IV-Skingrad. Could they have put a Romanesque church in the centre instead a Gothic-y one? But then a vital part of that nostalgia would be gone. You can do that with some things, but to do it "realistically", would need to be planned from the beginning (we already had established that temples in Cyrodiilic cities look like they do in TES IV, so that Romanesque predecessor would be not have the same impact), and it would be a lot of effort for very little gain. Or even detrimental to what you wanted to achieve. Because again, it's only Fantasy if you feel it.

Sure, you can think of justifications for the stasis as a fun exercise of the mind. (Just "because Magic!" is not a good solution, imho.) But you won't find the actual reason why the worldbuilders did it that way.