Character Immersion broken by bad dialogue

SyncWolf · April 2014

Character Immersion. Broken by bad dialogue.

Hopefully this post will help bring this to the attention of the developers and we may see improvement in the future. I have raised feedback in-game on this matter, but would like to give it some more attention out here on the forums.

Me and my friends have noticed a lot of immersion breaking from NPC dialogue because the dialogue ignores your own race or other conditions like being a vampire.

Playing in the Ebonheart Pact, you'll quickly notice that the Dunmer (Dark Elf) and the Argonians do not get along all to well. A rough history of slavery is to blame there. Now I do like how you can see this reflected in NPCs talking about others. However, they often ignore the race of the Player Character.

Dark Elves will react the same to you about Argonians, regardless if you're an Argonian yourself. In Shadowfen, land of the Argonians, you see the same racist comments in which NPCs talk bad about Dark Elves to you as if you'd understand.

Perhaps they're just venting.. I can shrug it off a bit. I'd love to see more varied responses though in which the PC Character's race, or perhaps even membership of a NPC guild, would have some impact on the dialogue.

On the other hand, I ran into a quest in which the quest giver is a vampire. They're pretty much relying on you as the Player Character to deal with the issue because they can't go out in the sun too much. The other vampires there also talk to you in a way that you're a mortal. Sadly, I'm already a vampire (at stage 4 even, so highly noticeable to be one). This, I feel, is something that shouldn't simply be ignored by NPCs that expect you to do something because you're not a vampire.

If you have encountered any points yourself that you believe breaks character immersions, or perhaps even found quests that respond quite well to your race, please reply and share your thoughts.

Sihnfahl · April 2014

Trainers and the 'headmaster' badmouthing khajiit and bosmer at the College of Altmeri Propriety to your face.

I'm a khajiit operating under the Queen's Aegis. Who's there to determine if they continue to work there. The very khajiit and bosmer-friendly Queen.

That's like telling someone from the White House, when you're in a very political job, that the Prez is a *$(%$. Okay, you may think it in private, but boy, you better not do that to someone who works for him.

Thorofothalab14_ESO · April 2014

In 29 levels, I found one single instance of racial recognition. If you are a Dunmer and approach the guarded Hist Tree north of Ebonheart, they will say you are not welcome here.

It even goes so far as to call my Nord an outsider when I finally get to Skyrim. As if I have no choice but to never have set foot in my homeland. Sure it is possible, but I feel like I would get a better welcome than a Dunmer or Argonian rather than the same.

That shows it had to be a thought at some point, and they trashed the idea. I find this completely unacceptable. Bugs are one thing, *** happens. But to overlook such crucial content in a game such as this is another.

This ontop of not being able to make decisions is horrible. I want my race to be recognized and I want to be able to choose a path in more quests. A Quest had me go to one of the Thanes, and he told me to fix the problem and don't tell the Prince because of what he might do. I think this is a good example. Maybe I want to tell the Prince.

I might give them one more month, to atleast aknowledge that they dropped the ball here and plan to fix it, within a reasonable time frame. If they refuse to fix this and just let it go, I honestly don't know how much longer I could put into this game when every corner I turn immersion is broken by dialogue having corners cut.

Genev · April 2014

I'm not sure how you expect them to fix that, the amount of work in both coding and writing would be pretty significant, and in general projects have deadlines.

It's a sacrifice they had to make in order to make other things better, and personally I don't really feel there's a problem.
But then again, I'm not part of the immersion crowd /shrug

Thete · April 2014

Genev wrote: »

I'm not sure how you expect them to fix that, the amount of work in both coding and writing would be pretty significant, and in general projects have deadlines.

To be fair, it isn't really that much work froma coding point of view. Other MMOs have different repsonses for different races, and it wouldn't take much to write that slightly separate comment whilst still staying within the spirit of the quest. The main problem is the extra voicing which needs to be done. This is probably what stops it being implemented and one reason why I'm not all that keen on voice acting in RPGs.

Ahnjil · April 2014

This happens in the Dominion as well.
When I reached Valenwood, a desperate elf asked my khajiit for help, while at the same time calling another khajiit a cat. Someone asking for help would naturally be more polite towards my race, but not in this game...

This isn't a big problem, but like said, it does break the immersion.

PBpsy · April 2014

It's even more fun In VR when my Dunmer has to go kill a group of Dunmer. It is the price of having hundreds of hours of voice acting.

Izzban · April 2014

It would be great to have racially inspired/acknowledged quests/npcs. It would also be great to have players ready to act based on their character's race. Instead of posting here about how mean that Dunmer was to your Argonian, DON'T DO THE QUEST! Act like you are actually your character or roleplay, whichever is easier!

I regularly refuse to do quests based on my determined morals for my character. I have also run into racial quests that I have refused to do.

I am not protesting ZO having made those quests. I am very glad that they did so I could refuse to do them. So my roleplaying choices mean something.

I think there is some room for improvement. Race could be a bigger factor in some conversations, and NPCs could be more aware of race. It would be cool if it's not too costly. If you are quitting the game because every Dunmer you come across doesn't ignore your Argonian, then I think you are asking too much.

Laurai · April 2014

A Khajiit Pirate calling me "Shaveskin" while being a Khajiit myself...
Well, he usually would be right..if it wasn't for the explorer pack.
I don't mind those things that much though. It takes more than a funny dialogue to break my immersion.
Other players completing my quest objective for example.

TheAmu · April 2014

I play as a Bosmer in the DC. I decided my wood elf was a bit of a revolutionary. But every NPC in the DC areas just ignore the fact that I'm Bosmer. Aren't they suspicious that I'm not fighting against them?

I made allowances for this. Considering I was rescued from the sea by the DC I've decided to repay them by fighting on their side. My character considers the ideals of the AD abhorrent. But she doesn't apply this disapproval to all Altmer.

I think, as the player, if you want to role play you have to create your own context. If you really want to do the quest because of the exp and rewards you get, decide what your characters motivations (or lack thereof) are.

Nox_Aeterna · April 2014

hehe , try playing a race that does not even belong in the faction OP , then things get really funny.

I just dont even care anymore :P.

UnderKingRhun · April 2014

unless you are a bosmer flying dominion colours, why would anyone bother you besides the towns local bigot brigade ( lets face it, every town has one or two lol ) granted a few nods of recognition would go down well, its not too much of a stretch that any race in any province would not be frowned upon too much. Perhaps with the exception of the beast races. As for vet rank explanations, Cadwell does explain why you wont be recognised as a champion of ( insert faction here)

Runefell · April 2014

Thorofothalab14_ESO wrote: »

In 29 levels, I found one single instance of racial recognition. If you are a Dunmer and approach the guarded Hist Tree north of Ebonheart, they will say you are not welcome here.

They told me that as well, and I'm a wood elf. Granted, a little on the tan side, but even so, there's no mistaking me for a Dunmer.

I actually found, so far, that in the Pact storyline at least, a lot of dialogue makes more sense if you're NOT one of the native three. There's just so much distrust and hate between some of them, and they're not afraid to confide their feelings to you, even if you're the race they're prejudiced against and badmouthing.

I did find at least one spot, though, that does acknowledge you if you're an Argonian. In the Enslaved in Death quest, where the argonian ghost asks you to free her fellow argonian spirits. If you're any other race, she'll just give you a general history at the end of the quest. If you're an Argonian, she'll warn you that there are Dark Elves who wish to enslave you again.

opaj · April 2014

Laurai wrote: »

A Khajiit Pirate calling me "Shaveskin" while being a Khajiit myself...
Well, he usually would be right..if it wasn't for the explorer pack.
I don't mind those things that much though. It takes more than a funny dialogue to break my immersion.
Other players completing my quest objective for example.

I just did this quest tonight. It was surely meant to insult me for working for a Dunmer and an Argonian. Surely...

My favorite was arriving to a particularly important place for the Argonians that was taken over by the Dominion. Quest giver gave me a disguise and I thought, "Finally! As a Khajiit, I can sneak right into the Dominion camp and take them down from within!" (I know the quest couldn't have been designed like that; I merely assumed it was a Dominion costume and my being a Dominion race was happy coincidence.)

Nope. They sent me, a Khajiit, to dress up as one of the Argonian holy men. Great plan, guys.

Runefell · May 2014

Huh. I just had an NPC snap at me 'What? Haven't you ever seen a Wood Elf before?'

Um, every time my character sees her reflection, yes?

Pendrillion · May 2014

Yeah that could have gone better. I found it a bit weird sometimes as well. But playing a Dunmer in the pact it wasn't that horrible. Other maybe than the odd Nord or Argonian who badmouthed my species in front of me. In any way. I would LOVE if they could brush those things up a little. Also the whole Dialogue options like... WHAT YOU DONT KNOW WHO XX, Vivec, Sanguine, Molag Bal is... and then go an recite some random fact about the entity. Geez those things are every day knowledge in Tamriel. No one should have missed that. Of course you have to help the Newcomers along a bit. But after playing ES for 10 years, this game often makes sure I feel treated like a *** at some points. Of course... Its really difficult to appease every level of knowledge.

ArgonianAssassin · May 2014

Genev wrote: »

I'm not sure how you expect them to fix that, the amount of work in both coding and writing would be pretty significant, and in general projects have deadlines.

It's a sacrifice they had to make in order to make other things better, and personally I don't really feel there's a problem.
But then again, I'm not part of the immersion crowd /shrug

You don't have to be apart of the 'immersion' crowd to realize this is a huge problem, when you're a khajiit and NPC's are going around calling your people racial slurs to your face and then they have the gall to ask you for help, and then we don't even have the choice to do anything about. Or Dunmer going around being racist calling my egg-brothers and sisters savages and again, other racial slurs and then have the nerve to ask me for help? Do these people have no concept of decency? Would you go around calling black people ***'s and then expect one to help you go find your cat? If you're desperate and really need help with something you're probably going to either refuse help from the race you despise, or keep your idiotic racist views to yourself.

Laurelinde · May 2014

I did have an option in one quest recently to say 'I am also Saxhleel, perhaps I can help' - I can't remember which one though. And when you first get out of Coldharbour, I remember Captain Rana being surprised/incredulous if I chose the conversation option to ask about Argonians, responding with something like 'you should know!' But yes, sometimes there will be disparaging comments about 'the lizards' which takes away any desire I have to help the speaker.

*mutter* Bloody dryskins...