Is it time to create a dedicated PVP megaserver?

TybaltKaine · July 9

It seems that every patch brings more and more chaos to classes and builds because something that functions good to well in PVE content absolutely breaks PVP balance, or something that only effects PVP balance is nerfed into the ground and made useless for PVE.

Maybe there needs to be a dedicated PVP server that has its own ruleset and own builds completely separate and balanced on itself rather than trying and failing to balance two disparate playstyles that are only growing further and further apart.

Would players support this idea? Is it a non-starter? Do you not care at all?

I chose not to make this a poll because I'd like to generate discussion and not just silent voting.

EdjeSwift · July 9

This has been an idea that's been rolling around in my noggin for years now and while it has many positives, I doubt it can work in practice because at the end of the day it's still the same game. Unless they decide to develop the servers differently your PvE changes are going to affect PvP and vice versa. Sure there may be performance boosts due to less people on the servers but at it's core it's the same game.

TybaltKaine · July 9

My thinking was to create an independent PVP team and have those changes be localized to that server, kind of how PTS does. I don't know if that could work logistically or not but knowing that the Live server and the PTS have different versions of the game existing simultaneously gives me hope that it can.

Desiato · July 9

It wouldn't be popular because most people who main PVP games would never accept all the PVE eso requires.

For ESO PVP to be popular and justify the financial investment to improve it requires a low barrier of access.

Most gamers into PVP games want to be able to download a game and start PVPing right away. They don't want to spend hundreds of hours developing a character in ezmode, grindy PVE. They don't want to feel compelled to grind a new PVE dungeon every few months or a new system every year.

The best approach would be to partially decouple the PVP side of the game in a way that would allow ESO PVE players to continue to play their characters in Cyrodiil/IC/BGs, but would also allow PVP focused gamers to download a PVP only client and spend all of their time within it with absolutely no PVE tie-ins.

I believe if the greater PVP gaming community could download Cyrodiil/IC/BGs as a stand-alone F2P product with existing microtransactions and start PVPing immediately, it could be extremely popular, even with its current problems. Cyrodiil is unlike anything else out there.

If it was popular, then ZOS would be financially incentivized to improve it.

In the model I am proposing, the PVP product would have its own modified rules, systems and gear, but other aspects like cosmetics, mounts, housing and ESO+ and characters could be shared between both the PVE and PVP games.

EdjeSwift · July 9

TybaltKaine wrote: »

My thinking was to create an independent PVP team and have those changes be localized to that server, kind of how PTS does. I don't know if that could work logistically or not but knowing that the Live server and the PTS have different versions of the game existing simultaneously gives me hope that it can.

Yeah, that means developing a second(ary) game. PTS v Live works because it's the same game at different phases, eventually live becomes PTS. What you're asking for is a split of Live into two different servers, which is easy enough, but then developing them separately for specific uses. You're essentially asking for a whole new game to be developed alongside the current one. And keep in mind this is a 10 year old game at this point, resources might be better off, from a business standpoint, making a new game.

Sepultura_13 · July 9

I'd like to see the ongoing, years-long PvP issues addressed and fixed, if at all possible:

1. The ever-present "stuck in combat" bug, which only goes away by leaving Cyrodiil - I usually jump to IC and back to Cyro if I can, but if I have to queue in to Cyro then I go questing and finish up storylines.
2. The ever present "burning / poisoned / scalding rune" that has you affected for 49k hours / days, which only goes away - again - by leaving Cyro.

Photosniper89 · July 9

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

I'd like to see the ongoing, years-long PvP issues addressed and fixed, if at all possible:

1. The ever-present "stuck in combat" bug, which only goes away by leaving Cyrodiil - I usually jump to IC and back to Cyro if I can, but if I have to queue in to Cyro then I go questing and finish up storylines.
2. The ever present "burning / poisoned / scalding rune" that has you affected for 49k hours / days, which only goes away - again - by leaving Cyro.

The tried the year of performance - nothing really changed (as it relates to cyro).

TybaltKaine · July 9

@Desiato

This is essentially exactly what I would like to see. I wasn't quite sure how to phrase it, but yes, this is what I mean when I say a "Dedicated PVP server". Something that exists on its own merit as a side offering to the main game that wouldn't require any PVE for people who just want to fight other people.

LunaFlora · July 9

i think it would be better to simply have extra text in skill descriptions that might need changes that goes under "Whilst Battle Spirit is active"

would this megaserver you imagine be 1 for each of the 3 platforms?
would it be for the current 2 regions?
that would be 6 megaservers added to the current 6.
seems super unlikely.

if it is just 1 extra megaserver, presumably just for PC, in which region would it be NA or EU?

TybaltKaine · July 9

If it were exclusively PVP with the caveats mentioned above, I'd prioritize developing two cross play megaservers, one for NA and one for EU.

Tandor · July 9

There can never be such a thing as "a" dedicated server, given the different regions and platforms it would have to be "six" dedicated servers. Cross-platform play isn't currently possible with ESO, and in any competitive content a mixed regional playerbase would be extremely problematic.

As for the idea of PvP having "its own ruleset and own builds completely separate and balanced", what you're effectively describing is a different and separate game, given that it's become very clear over the years that ZOS aren't interested in balancing things separately for PvE and PvP.

None of this would be remotely viable.

Dragonnord · July 9

Do you know how much a megaserver costs? Do you know have much work would involve having a completely separate megaserver with its own everything?

TESO's PvP community is very small compared to PvE.

It's just not worth it and it won't happen.

TybaltKaine · July 9

I'd like to think that a company that predicated it's 10-year anniversary by announcing a 2 billion dollar earning over that span of time could find a way to invest some of that profit into a viable PVP alternative that does in fact feature cross play.

Perhaps that is a bridge too far.

Araneae6537 · July 9

I would prefer not as my primary interest is PvE but I also enjoy PvP on occasion. There have been several suggestions regarding heals (limiting stacking of same ability to two) that should only effect ballgroups (not that I think players need to be penalized for coordinating, but stacking heals in this manner seems unbalanced and, IMHO, actually diminishes the role of healer).

Other things could be addressed with battlespirit and morphs and sets that are specific to one or the other — these already exist so why not extend what effects opposing players as versus NPCs?

xDeusEJRx · July 9

This would be ideal. However, people seem to forget that zos barely care about PVP and have ignored it for 5+ years outside of occasional updates/balance changes. There's been no new content for ESO PVP so it's clear their love child is not PVP.

If they won't update pvp for 5+ years what's the likelihood they'd cater to PVP in adding a PVP dedicated server?

CrazyKitty · July 9

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Sepultura_13 wrote: »

I'd like to see the ongoing, years-long PvP issues addressed and fixed, if at all possible:

1. The ever-present "stuck in combat" bug, which only goes away by leaving Cyrodiil - I usually jump to IC and back to Cyro if I can, but if I have to queue in to Cyro then I go questing and finish up storylines.
2. The ever present "burning / poisoned / scalding rune" that has you affected for 49k hours / days, which only goes away - again - by leaving Cyro.

The tried the year of performance - nothing really changed (as it relates to cyro).

We've had at least two "years of performance" cited by ZOS, maybe even three. Basically all that happened is that several times they ran a bunch of tests, had us play with different variables changed to combat at the time, then they lowered the population cap and changed nothing else.

CrazyKitty · July 9

They should just charge extra for Cyrodiil, call it Cyro+ or something, and then put the money toward server capacity so we can have the higher population caps and decent performance back. They need to stop spreading the game thinner and thinner over the same server resources and expecting performance not to suffer.

Danikat · July 9

One big problem I see with a dedicated PvP server is there's no way to transfer characters, items, achievements etc. between servers so it would mean asking anyone who wants to PvP to start over and then keeping all their PvP stuff seperate from all their PvE stuff. Not just achievements, items earned, gold etc. but also crown store purchases, guild membership, houses etc.

There's very, very few people who genuinely only ever play PvP. most play both PvP and PvE. I think if the two were completely split, like playing on NA and EU is currently, a lot fewer people would do it because the PvP server would be a much smaller, more limited game.

Some other games handle it by having different versions of the same skills (on the same server). Say for example a skill does too much damage against other players, but nerfing it would make it useless in PvE because bosses have so much health - so it gets split and the PvP version does less damage than the PvE version. I wonder if ZOS could do something like that.

Dax_Draconis · July 9

I have been wanting complete separation between PvE and the dwindling PvP aspect of the game for years. PvP balance complaints need to stop being a factor in messing up the PvE builds. It needs to happen for the health of the game.

WaywardArgonian · July 9

The solution to this issue would be to separate PVE and PVP balancing for sets. Not sure what a PVP megaserver has to do with it. That would be a gigantic waste of resources.

LaintalAy · July 9

Tandor wrote: »

There can never be such a thing as "a" dedicated server, given the different regions and platforms it would have to be "six" dedicated servers. Cross-platform play isn't currently possible with ESO, and in any competitive content a mixed regional playerbase would be extremely problematic.

As for the idea of PvP having "its own ruleset and own builds completely separate and balanced", what you're effectively describing is a different and separate game, given that it's become very clear over the years that ZOS aren't interested in balancing things separately for PvE and PvP.

None of this would be remotely viable.

Apparently no-one read this ^^^ - so here it is again.

This won't ever happen.

Bammlschwamml · July 9

.

Bammlschwamml · July 9

.

darvaria · July 9

A lot of players have left PVP due to que times, extreme lag and stuck in combat/can't mount.

Someone said only 100 players can get in Cyro now?

This suggestion will most likely never been implemented. PVP is dying is most games. Players would rather compete with parsing numbers than with real players. Real players are too unpredictable.

gronoxvx · July 10

Wont happen unfortunately. Zos is too busy concentrating on housing stuff as its their cash cow now. Why put a lot of work into a community that has lost faith in Zos and either left or only plays due to nostalgia?

Rowjoh · July 10

It's entirely possible for ZoS to tailor gear, buffs and de-buffs etc to whatever they want, so disparity between PVP and PVE should never be that much of an issue.

The real issue has been the developers decision making process and heavy handed approach when attempting 'balance'.

As regards performance, a server link to a dedicated server would improve PVP no end. Not only would it eradicate all current issues, it would free up plenty of space for regular expansion too, but I can't see this ever happening.

The resources required would be hugely significant and more than that, for a game this old, player base numbers would never be sufficient to generate the required income to cover the cost of such an undertaking and commitment.

Casdha · July 10

I can confirm that in the early days the PvP servers were actually fun and didn't have near the issues that they have now and everyone had a chance to compete and the population was high enough to make the place feel alive.

In my personal opinion the thing that changed PvP the most are the players. When folks started to complain about how things worked because they felt that they shouldn't be killed in certain situations. When they started to complain and then lobby and get their way, it started a chain reaction that destroyed the PvP aspect of the game

Examples: In the early days if you loaded Eclipse (forgot the exact morph) on a Templar it was very limited in what it was effective at but it was the perfect counter for a glass cannon kiting from the top of a keep as most of the time they were just spamming they wouldn't realize it was active and instakill themselves when their own shot was reflected at them. (and it was hilarious when it happened)

Silverbolts had a hard 10% (I think, might have been lower) chance to instakill a vampire or werewolf (I believe Vampire was Meta at the time) the instant response would be something like I have an awesome build why should I die by RNG just because someone loaded an otherwise useless skill on to their bar.

In both cases a player's own build would cause their own demise if they put too much into power and not enough into balance. When they started to fix things like this I believe they took the true balance out of this game. Continuing to balance the game with math has lead to not being able to have as many players per amount of hardware used and made the game to where the population so low in comparison that you have either a dead areas or zerg zones with no in between and if they try to increase population to where it use to be all they get is lag.

In my opinion, In short if you focused to much on rotation and build and not enough on strategy you could loose and folks didn't like that. Every action should have a counter and at one time it did.