ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

In order to help the Warden's damage production without rocking the boat too much in PvP (where they already are plenty strong), we're adding a conditional bonus that will mainly activate in PvE. We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, Animal Companions, so we can slowly look at shifting passive damage, such as Piercing Cold and the density of Glacial Presence, out of their tanking focused skill line. To clear up some of the confusion and concern we saw during PTS testing, we are NOT looking to remove morph diversity that helps frost mage DPS shine, like Arctic Blast or Winter’s Revenge. Our main concerns are on how much passive damage frost Wardens rely on to do reliable damage, and how it is allowing tankier Wardens to often out-damage others in PvP with little to no draw backs.


This is fantastic to see further clarification on, as many of us frost wardens were deeply concerned with the original note. still a few issues though. the reason arctic blast and winters revenge are any good at all is due to chilled's damage output. by looking for ways to nerf this, you will VERY likely destroy frost warden dps builds as they're propped up by chilled proc rates and damage. these are the most viable warden pve damage builds at the current moment, a fan favourite, and not performing well in pve content.

Chilled is one of, if not our most powerful damage source by far:

Doing anything to nerf its uptime and/or damage will absolutely tank frost warden's performance to a point where no-one will run it over some generic dual wield or inferno/lightning staff build. something drastic would need to be done to keep the playstyle alive. Using Frost damage is the main point of frost warden. As is, we have to go out of our way to use many sources to really get a lot out of the build as there are not that many sources within our class outside of the 2 AoE DoT skills winter's revenge and arctic blast. Northern Storm is a fun option but only a realistic option in pvp content.

If you go about this the wrong way, there will be an incredibly large community outcry. So, i think it's appropriate to suggest a direction to go in to help meet players halfway. The most popular and effective solutions i can think of would be to standardise damage types, with frost damage on the magicka scaling animal companions skills (Feral/Eternal Guardian, Dive/Screaming Cliff Racer, Scorch/Deep Fissure, Swarm/Fetcher Infection) This has many times been suggested before. this would allow more sources of frost damage skills within the class and therefore allowing the reduction of passives deemed too powerful within the winter's embrace line and easier ability to build around pure frost damage builds. currently the class's skill lines feel disjointed with catering to 2 different audiences. winters embrace power fantasy caters to frost mages while animal companions is for players wishing to play with a hunter/druid type power fantasy. For us frost mages, they mostly act as filler as the skills are too strong to not take. by making them deal frost damage, and with minor visual and sound effect changes, they can easily cater towards both audiences of players. this should realistically make it much easier to design for as now, both groups would be united. Everyone wants a polar bear that deals frost damage afterall.
With respects to lore regarding why the animals could/should do frost magic is simply because warden storytelling magic isn't actually summoning a real animal as the shalks would normally deal flame damage, and the bear would deal physical or bleed damage for example, they could therefore easily be imbued with frost magic, warden's native element. Necromancer can summon flaming skeletons and a frozen collosus, and Sorcerer can summon shock imbued daedric minions. is this really so far fetched?

I will also mention that piercing cold's bonus for increasing ice staff usage for dps players is not necessarily a bad thing, however it's roughly implemented in its current state, so if there are plans to remove this and to nerf chilled at the same time, this will greatly upset us as we enjoy using an ice staff, even if the power granted from it is currently limiting build choice. How you choose to go about this needs to be cautious. I suggest changing the ice staff bonus to only increase frost damage while equipped, so that it's not just a stat stick, but a specific bonus for frost oriented dps builds.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

In order to help the Warden's damage production without rocking the boat too much in PvP (where they already are plenty strong), we're adding a conditional bonus that will mainly activate in PvE. We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, Animal Companions, so we can slowly look at shifting passive damage, such as Piercing Cold and the density of Glacial Presence, out of their tanking focused skill line. To clear up some of the confusion and concern we saw during PTS testing, we are NOT looking to remove morph diversity that helps frost mage DPS shine, like Arctic Blast or Winter’s Revenge. Our main concerns are on how much passive damage frost Wardens rely on to do reliable damage, and how it is allowing tankier Wardens to often out-damage others in PvP with little to no draw backs.


This is fantastic to see further clarification on, as many of us frost wardens were deeply concerned with the original note. still a few issues though. the reason arctic blast and winters revenge are any good at all is due to chilled's damage output. by looking for ways to nerf this, you will VERY likely destroy frost warden dps builds as they're propped up by chilled proc rates and damage. these are the most viable warden pve damage builds at the current moment, a fan favourite, and not performing well in pve content.

Chilled is one of, if not our most powerful damage source by far:

Doing anything to nerf its uptime and/or damage will absolutely tank frost warden's performance to a point where no-one will run it over some generic dual wield or inferno/lightning staff build. something drastic would need to be done to keep the playstyle alive. Using Frost damage is the main point of frost warden. As is, we have to go out of our way to use many sources to really get a lot out of the build as there are not that many sources within our class outside of the 2 AoE DoT skills winter's revenge and arctic blast. Northern Storm is a fun option but only a realistic option in pvp content.

If you go about this the wrong way, there will be an incredibly large community outcry. So, i think it's appropriate to suggest a direction to go in to help meet players halfway. The most popular and effective solutions i can think of would be to standardise damage types, with frost damage on the magicka scaling animal companions skills (Feral/Eternal Guardian, Dive/Screaming Cliff Racer, Scorch/Deep Fissure, Swarm/Fetcher Infection) This has many times been suggested before. this would allow more sources of frost damage skills within the class and therefore allowing the reduction of passives deemed too powerful within the winter's embrace line and easier ability to build around pure frost damage builds. currently the class's skill lines feel disjointed with catering to 2 different audiences. winters embrace power fantasy caters to frost mages while animal companions is for players wishing to play with a hunter/druid type power fantasy. For us frost mages, they mostly act as filler as the skills are too strong to not take. by making them deal frost damage, and with minor visual and sound effect changes, they can easily cater towards both audiences of players. this should realistically make it much easier to design for as now, both groups would be united. Everyone wants a polar bear that deals frost damage afterall.
With respects to lore regarding why the animals could/should do frost magic is simply because warden storytelling magic isn't actually summoning a real animal as the shalks would normally deal flame damage, and the bear would deal physical or bleed damage for example, they could therefore easily be imbued with frost magic, warden's native element. Necromancer can summon flaming skeletons and a frozen collosus, and Sorcerer can summon shock imbued daedric minions. is this really so far fetched?

I will also mention that piercing cold's bonus for increasing ice staff usage for dps players is not necessarily a bad thing, however it's roughly implemented in its current state, so if there are plans to remove this and to nerf chilled at the same time, this will greatly upset us as we enjoy using an ice staff, even if the power granted from it is currently limiting build choice. How you choose to go about this needs to be cautious. I suggest changing the ice staff bonus to only increase frost damage while equipped, so that it's not just a stat stick, but a specific bonus for frost oriented dps builds.

So is this a nerf for ice right

We don't know until they make changes, but it's extremely likely to be without reasonable compensation to frost dps elements of warden/the ice staff.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

It's good to read that the morphs they mentioned won't be adjusted. I still wonder what changes ZOS will end up making, though.

It would indeed be great if more DPS skills would deal Frost damage. But if Piercing Cold and Glacial Presence are significantly nerfed (or even replaced by passives that are more related to tanking), that still seems like a damage loss to me. Unless Advanced Species would be changed to "Increases your Critical Damage by 4% and your Damage Done by 2% for each Animal Companion ability slotted" or something.

My guess would be nerfing the chilled proc rate and damage as well as redesigning piercing cold. I'd be fine with a piercing cold rework if glacial presence was going to remain untouched but that seems highly unlikely given the wording. I highly doubt whatever change they'll make is going to do anything other than return us to dual wield/inferno/shock staff meta. A good way to help mitigate this problem would be to finally commit to changing animal companions skills to frost damage, not because that would inherently increase our damage, but because it would eliminate the conflicting nature of the frost mage aspect and the druid aspect and would allow the skill line to be solidly designed to just be good without needing to capitulate to 2 different playstyles.

Only rework I want for ice is more abilities and change the minor resolve for something else like snare or vulnerability

What do you mean minor resolve? We have class major resolve on frost cloak. We also already have minor vulnerability on fetcher infection.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

It's good to read that the morphs they mentioned won't be adjusted. I still wonder what changes ZOS will end up making, though.

It would indeed be great if more DPS skills would deal Frost damage. But if Piercing Cold and Glacial Presence are significantly nerfed (or even replaced by passives that are more related to tanking), that still seems like a damage loss to me. Unless Advanced Species would be changed to "Increases your Critical Damage by 4% and your Damage Done by 2% for each Animal Companion ability slotted" or something.

My guess would be nerfing the chilled proc rate and damage as well as redesigning piercing cold. I'd be fine with a piercing cold rework if glacial presence was going to remain untouched but that seems highly unlikely given the wording. I highly doubt whatever change they'll make is going to do anything other than return us to dual wield/inferno/shock staff meta. A good way to help mitigate this problem would be to finally commit to changing animal companions skills to frost damage, not because that would inherently increase our damage, but because it would eliminate the conflicting nature of the frost mage aspect and the druid aspect and would allow the skill line to be solidly designed to just be good without needing to capitulate to 2 different playstyles.

Only rework I want for ice is more abilities and change the minor resolve for something else like snare or vulnerability

What do you mean minor resolve? We have class major resolve on frost cloak. We also already have minor vulnerability on fetcher infection.

On the frost staff abilities contain resolve, I wish it replace for something else, that what I mean.

I cant remember any of the frost staff skills having resolve. The closest thing is minor protection on impulse.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

It's good to read that the morphs they mentioned won't be adjusted. I still wonder what changes ZOS will end up making, though.

It would indeed be great if more DPS skills would deal Frost damage. But if Piercing Cold and Glacial Presence are significantly nerfed (or even replaced by passives that are more related to tanking), that still seems like a damage loss to me. Unless Advanced Species would be changed to "Increases your Critical Damage by 4% and your Damage Done by 2% for each Animal Companion ability slotted" or something.

My guess would be nerfing the chilled proc rate and damage as well as redesigning piercing cold. I'd be fine with a piercing cold rework if glacial presence was going to remain untouched but that seems highly unlikely given the wording. I highly doubt whatever change they'll make is going to do anything other than return us to dual wield/inferno/shock staff meta. A good way to help mitigate this problem would be to finally commit to changing animal companions skills to frost damage, not because that would inherently increase our damage, but because it would eliminate the conflicting nature of the frost mage aspect and the druid aspect and would allow the skill line to be solidly designed to just be good without needing to capitulate to 2 different playstyles.

Only rework I want for ice is more abilities and change the minor resolve for something else like snare or vulnerability

What do you mean minor resolve? We have class major resolve on frost cloak. We also already have minor vulnerability on fetcher infection.

On the frost staff abilities contain resolve, I wish it replace for something else, that what I mean.

I cant remember any of the frost staff skills having resolve. The closest thing is minor protection on impulse.

Or my mistake maybe was that but still it should be replace to something better

I reckon frost impulse should deal more damage to enemies affected by crowd control. (Snares, Immobilisation and hard cc like Stuns, Charms and Fears)