[SUGGESTION] Make ink and ressource node byproducts results from extraction at crafting station

AnduinTryggva · June 29

Currently some byproducts like heartwood and ink can be found in ressource nodes.

Please do not flame me as I am only want to discuss some thoughts that I have on how these byproducts are obtained.

As of now someone finding these byproducts can just loot them and leave the primary ressource there. The result: The node will not respawn for other players to have a chance on that byproduct.

A solution to halfway looted ressource node would be to enforce the emptying of a node as soon as it is farmed. However I guess it may be difficult to change as this would probably touch quite some code here and there.

I wonder if it might not be easier to remove the byproducts as drops from the nodes themselfs and to implement them as additional results from enhancing the basic results on the crafting stations like to obtain hardeners. Of course the success of extracting these byproducts should emulate the drop probability of these byproducts that we have now farming the nodes.

This could have additional benefits for the market prices of hardeners. This could incite players farming for ink or heartwood to treat their basic ressource and get hardeners in addition that they could sell. This could increase supply for hardeners.

These are just thoughts of mine and I am happy to get views on this from the community.

EDIT: This would of course require to implement an extration possibility for basic ressources not yet implemented like plants, runes and water.

EDIT: For plants these plant node byproducts could drop from crafting potions. Why not have ink and bast as "residuals" sometimes when destliing potions. Dito for water. Byproducts from runes could as well be a byproduct from crafted enchanting thingies.

LunaFlora · June 29

this would be super awesome! people have been wanting furnishing materials to drop from deconstruction for a while now and ink would be great too.

TaSheen · June 29

What I find more is that people loot the "good stuff" from nodes and leave the furnishing mats. So that's fine with me.... I'm happy to "clean up after them".

Dragonnord · June 29

This has never been a problem in 10 years. Why it's suddenly a problem now?

Besides, ZOS several times mentioned that when you leave a node, chest, etc. with some loot inside, the node auto-resets minutes later and respawns with full loot again.

katanagirl1 · June 29

I have been in favor of a “take all” only option for nodes but the prevailing argument is that they do respawn and it just takes longer and most think it is not a problem.

While additional sources for furnishing mats (besides random ToT drops) would be welcome, I would not want them to remove what we already have. I would fear the change would be implemented in an unsatisfactory manner.

LaintalAy · June 29

Dragonnord wrote: »

This has never been a problem in 10 years. Why it's suddenly a problem now?

Besides, ZOS several times mentioned that when you leave a node, chest, etc. with some loot inside, the node auto-resets minutes later and respawns with full loot again.

Maybe you have a link that you can share showing ZOS' comments?
I seem to have missed this important information somehow.

Kappachi · June 29

This would discourage harvesting, which is already a kind of demanding task. IF you could just buy the mats on the market and construct them for these it would be bad for the game IMO. They need to do more to encourage harvesting, and adding ink drops is a major step forward IMO.

LaintalAy · June 29

The main problem I have with this idea is that the refined products are themselves subject to drop rates and/or rng.

This system would also need to exclude players that haven't bought Gold Road.

AnduinTryggva · June 30

Kappachi wrote: »

This would discourage harvesting, which is already a kind of demanding task. IF you could just buy the mats on the market and construct them for these it would be bad for the game IMO. They need to do more to encourage harvesting, and adding ink drops is a major step forward IMO.

Can you explain this a bit more? I don't see how this does not motivate for farming as long as you need farmed ressources to get the hardeners, ink and byproduct from the basic ressources that someone has farmed. I don't see much difference to now. Someone has to collect the basic ressources (they don't appear on guild stores out of nowhere) and he or she has to treat them at the crafting stations just like we have to do to obtain hardeners and the mats for crafting armor and weapons.

But maybe I miss something here so I would really like to understand your train of thought.

AnduinTryggva · June 30

LaintalAy wrote: »

The main problem I have with this idea is that the refined products are themselves subject to drop rates and/or rng.

This system would also need to exclude players that haven't bought Gold Road.

Maybe there is a missunderstanding. I don't suggest to refine the refined products to get the by products.

My suggestion is:
You collect a certain number of the basic ressource. You take these to the corresponding crafting station and start to refine.

As a result you have a chance to get hardeners just like now with higher chance for green hardeners than for golden hardeners.

IN ADDITION you have a chance to get the byproducts that you usually find at ressource node (like bast, heartwood, ink, etc.). This chance should emulate the drop chance that you have farming the ressource node.

Just an invented example of what I mean here:
Let's assume that you find heartwood in every second wood node. With 10 wood nodes farmed you should have - on average - now something like 5 heartwoods (of course this can vary due to rng).

With the suggested system you go collect 10 wood nodes. You take these 10 wood nodes to the carpenter station and start to refine. You will get hardeners and other mats just like now. But IN ADDITION you would get - on average but of course depending on ordinary rng - extract 5 heartwood.

If you are out looking for heartwood you would have lost nothing. You would have the same chance to obtain heartwood as before. But since the system made you refining which you would not have done if you only looked for the heartwood you have now a chance to also obtain hardeners and refined mats. These you could sell on guild store if you wish.

AvalonRanger · June 30

"[SUGGESTION] Make ink and resource node byproducts results from extraction at crafting station Bookmark"

Hmm...It's good idea. Very welcome.

kargen27 · June 30

As others have said nodes respawn even if only part of the loot is taken. One reason most often given for not wanting loot all being forced is players without crafting bags fill their inventory fairly quick while out farming.

To me this reads as a way to buy ink and have it count as collected ink. Players would begin to sell the raw materials in guild stores more frequently than now and at higher prices because of the added chance of getting ink. Players wanting ink buy the raw materials and if they get a drop while refining it counts towards the achievement. That is a problem for only a short bit but still a problem.
Other potential problem is how it affects the cost of materials. People paying more for raw materials are not going to want to sell the refined materials at a loss but will want to list them at prices that reflect what they paid. Another potential problem is hoarders. Again maybe just a short term problem and it might offset the price increase problem. I was sitting on around 15K raw clothing materials and just refined them a couple of days ago. I know there are players out there have way way more raw materials than what I had. Basically your idea gives them potentially 100s of free inks. That kind of defeats the idea behind why they are a rare commodity.
I wouldn't mind other sources for ink but I think ink from refining might not be a good idea.

Casdha · July 1

Be glad they didn't do it this way.

If ZOS would have done this it would have been Jewelry and grains all over again needing 10 parts to make 1 ink and 3 inks to make one Grimoire. At least until the chapter was old enough to be included with a new game purchase.

ShadowPaladin · July 1

Sorry to say it, but thats a bad idea. Changing a system which does work into another one. Also, you are just moving the RNG component from the resource node to the refining part. The latter being the worse one, because here you will need resources for it to work, which you will first need to farm. If you don't have resources, you won't get anything. This means, you will have to do two steps instead of one (1st farm, 2nd refine).

With the other option, you will get nearly unlimited things from farming, since nodes do respawn after some time (if they are not looted completely, it will take a bit longer) and they do so endlessly. Here you will only have one steap - farming resource node and the limiting factor will only be the time you are willing to invest

DenverRalphy · July 1

If ever Ink drops were shifted from Resource Nodes, it should go to Torchbugs. Would make more sense anyway.

Oh wait... I guess those are technically a resource node because they sometimes drop their thorax.

FlopsyPrince · July 1

Kappachi wrote: »

This would discourage harvesting, which is already a kind of demanding task. IF you could just buy the mats on the market and construct them for these it would be bad for the game IMO. They need to do more to encourage harvesting, and adding ink drops is a major step forward IMO.

You mean encourage the bots I saw on one of the starting islands yesterday harvesting?

FlopsyPrince · July 1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If ever Ink drops were shifted from Resource Nodes, it should go to Torchbugs. Would make more sense anyway.

Oh wait... I guess those are technically a resource node because they sometimes drop their thorax.

Then Miri would gripe at you!

No Miri, I can't make some things without Torchbug Thoraxes!

DinoZavr · July 1

sorry, i see a small problem here:
- to be able to get inks from resource nodes you are to complete Indriks' quests, hence you have to have Gold Road
not every player has bought the Chapter already.
to implement the filter (if player eligible to get inks or not) Zeni should re-write some core code, which i doubt could happen