Why does ZOS hate Bows?

ioResult · June 6

Am I reading this right? When I use the Scribing Simulator on ESO Hub, it says that Elemental Explosion - the Destro staff Scribing skill - has a 28m range but Vault - the Bow Scribing skill - only has a SIX METER range? Am I reading this wrong? If I'm not, WHY ON EARTH would a BOW skill only have a SIX METER range? Less of a range than the Dual Wield skill - Traveling Knife - which is 15m?!?! Seriously?!?

And WHY do we have to find and dig up FIFTEEN LEADS to get THREE mythics we don't even WANT as a bow user in order to get the Scarlet Red Snipe skill style? Is there any MORE difficult skill style to get?

Pelanora · June 6

"The best longbows were made of yew, might have required a force of as much as 150 to 180 pounds (70 to 80 kg) to draw, and shot arrows a cloth yard (about 37 inches, or 94 cm) long, with an effective range of some 450 to 1,000 feet (140 to 300 metres) depending on the weight of the arrow."

140 to 300 meters.

Bow users rise up!

Calastir · June 6

Our arrows will blot out the sun!

Firstmep · June 6

ioResult wrote: »

Am I reading this right? When I use the Scribing Simulator on ESO Hub, it says that Elemental Explosion - the Destro staff Scribing skill - has a 28m range but Vault - the Bow Scribing skill - only has a SIX METER range? Am I reading this wrong? If I'm not, WHY ON EARTH would a BOW skill only have a SIX METER range? Less of a range than the Dual Wield skill - Traveling Knife - which is 15m?!?! Seriously?!?

And WHY do we have to find and dig up FIFTEEN LEADS to get THREE mythics we don't even WANT as a bow user in order to get the Scarlet Red Snipe skill style? Is there any MORE difficult skill style to get?

Vault is an escape skill at its core, if it had 28m range, and a 15m backflip, you would jump out of attack range of you opponent.

As for the skill style for snipe, if you think the 3 mythics are the hardest grind, look up what you have to do for meteor(30 fragments with once a day cap).

DigiAngel · June 6

Firstmep wrote: »

ioResult wrote: »

Am I reading this right? When I use the Scribing Simulator on ESO Hub, it says that Elemental Explosion - the Destro staff Scribing skill - has a 28m range but Vault - the Bow Scribing skill - only has a SIX METER range? Am I reading this wrong? If I'm not, WHY ON EARTH would a BOW skill only have a SIX METER range? Less of a range than the Dual Wield skill - Traveling Knife - which is 15m?!?! Seriously?!?

And WHY do we have to find and dig up FIFTEEN LEADS to get THREE mythics we don't even WANT as a bow user in order to get the Scarlet Red Snipe skill style? Is there any MORE difficult skill style to get?

Vault is an escape skill at its core, if it had 28m range, and a 15m backflip, you would jump out of attack range of you opponent.

As for the skill style for snipe, if you think the 3 mythics are the hardest grind, look up what you have to do for meteor(30 fragments with once a day cap).

Necrotech_Master · June 6

vault is meant to be a movement skill akin to mist form, streak, etc so it wont have a 28 meter range

the destro one your lobbing a grenade effectively, with 2 sec cast time

like comparing apples to oranges

Pelanora · June 7

I took that to be the point, the bow skill we get is just a gimmick- that doesn't even make sense. There's no recoil from firing an arrow into the ground.

ioResult · June 7

Firstmep wrote: »

Vault is an escape skill at its core, if it had 28m range, and a 15m backflip, you would jump out of attack range of you opponent.

As for the skill style for snipe, if you think the 3 mythics are the hardest grind, look up what you have to do for meteor(30 fragments with once a day cap).

Then get it off the Bow skill line and put it somewhere else like Fighter's Guild and give the bow a Scribing skill that does something ranged like the destro skill does. Or better yet, swap the Destro Skill and the Bow skill because you need an escape skill when wielding a destro staff far more than wielding a bow.

And look at the mythics, one lead requires you to do HoF Trial just to get the lead. Point is no other Skill Style requires all this nonsense.

ioResult · June 7

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

vault is meant to be a movement skill akin to mist form, streak, etc so it wont have a 28 meter range

the destro one your lobbing a grenade effectively, with 2 sec cast time

like comparing apples to oranges

No it's not. No other weapon skill line has nothing to do with the weapon like this. You can now make knock back skills for other weapons that outperform Magnum Shot but you can't do anything with this Bow skill to outclass a destro staff skill. This Scribing Skill makes NO sense for this weapon line. Go put it on Fighter's Guild or swap it with the Destro Staff Scribing Skill and tell me all about how it matches with the weapon skill line.

And we've seen you in Cyrodiil, bow is not your forte. ;-)

Turtle_Bot · June 7

Vault is a teleport skill designed for utility. It is not designed to be a DPS/burst skill.

Vault's "range" is 15m just like all of the other teleport abilities that don't have a target (streak, mist form). The 6m you are seeing on the ability is likely the area of effect or radius that the skill has that it deals its damage (or heal) and applies the secondary effects when you cast it, before it leaps you backwards.

For the different weapon scribing skills, they seem to follow these designs as their core functions:
- Bow - escape + utility
- destro - burst damage
- dual wield - multi hit spammable
- resto - heal/utility over time
- 2h - pseudo spammable with offensive utility
- 1h + s - pseudo spammable with defensive utility

Trying to compare vault to elemental explosion is like trying to compare mist form to snipe. They are just designed to be completely different abilities that have completely different uses.

As for the snipe style, sure it sucks that it's locked behind that particular grind, but the style is completely cosmetic and doesn't alter the performance of the ability in any way.

ioResult · June 7

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Vault is a teleport skill designed for utility. It is not designed to be a DPS/burst skill.

TL;DR

How is this so difficult for you folks to understand? I get what kind of skill it is. I DON'T CARE. That skill does NOT BELONG ON THE BOW SKILL LINE

Period.

That's it.

The end.

No other weapon skill line got a Scribing skill that is a "teleport skill". Every other weapon scribing skill is an attack related to that weapon and follows the general range and rules of the other abilities for that weapon skill line.

You want to create a teleport Scribing skill? [snip]. Do so!

But get it the **** OFF a weapon skill line and put it somewhere else.

And then give the Bow skill line - a WEAPON skill line - the same type of Scribing skill as was created for EVERY OTHER weapon skill line - a Scribing ability that is actually related to the weapon itself and how it performs in combat.

Oh and I guarantee if the new color for something on the Destro Staff line or the Resto staff line was behind having to obtain three Mythics which require specific DLCs be purchased by the player to do the dungeons and trials to get the leads for those mythics, there would have been screaming bloody murder during the PTS cycle. It'd never gone live. [snip]

[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Pelanora · June 7

And trials?

What the

What the actual

That's pretty crap

Necrotech_Master · June 7

ioResult wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

vault is meant to be a movement skill akin to mist form, streak, etc so it wont have a 28 meter range

the destro one your lobbing a grenade effectively, with 2 sec cast time

like comparing apples to oranges

No it's not. No other weapon skill line has nothing to do with the weapon like this. You can now make knock back skills for other weapons that outperform Magnum Shot but you can't do anything with this Bow skill to outclass a destro staff skill. This Scribing Skill makes NO sense for this weapon line. Go put it on Fighter's Guild or swap it with the Destro Staff Scribing Skill and tell me all about how it matches with the weapon skill line.

And we've seen you in Cyrodiil, bow is not your forte. ;-)

regardless where they put the skill, if its a "movement" skill like it is, its certainly not going to have a range higher than 15 meters because thats the standard, thats how zos balances the skills, am i happy with vault as it is? not really, i dont like the idea of a "self knockback", will i use it? probably not

when i saw a video showing the scribed fighters guild skill that looked weird to me too, the waving a torch around thing

and all that matters to me is having fun in cyro, i know my build isnt meta and wont be effective against everyone, especially those who actually do care about being competitive lol

ioResult · June 7

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

regardless where they put the skill, if its a "movement" skill like it is, its certainly not going to have a range higher than 15 meters because thats the standard, thats how zos balances the skills, am i happy with vault as it is? not really, i dont like the idea of a "self knockback", will i use it? probably not

See but that's my point. Every other weapon line got an upgrade with their Scribing skill. Bow did not. That is not balance. That is the opposite. If this skill belongs on any weapon line, it belongs on Sword & Shield, not Bow. But what did they do with that skill line? They added a Scribing skill where the shield can be THROWN 28 meters and return automatically back making every troll tank like Captain America now. It's ridiculous. Put Vault on the Sword 7 Board skill line, remove the Captain America shield skill andd then give Bow a skill that is ranged.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

when i saw a video showing the scribed fighters guild skill that looked weird to me too, the waving a torch around thing

It's not how it looks. It's how it puts bow users at a disadvantage & out of balance.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

and all that matters to me is having fun in cyro, i know my build isnt meta and wont be effective against everyone, especially those who actually do care about being competitive lol

You're fine in Cyro. I was just teasing you a bit. :-) But some of us do care about being competitive and this issue is real to us.

Necrotech_Master · June 7

ioResult wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

regardless where they put the skill, if its a "movement" skill like it is, its certainly not going to have a range higher than 15 meters because thats the standard, thats how zos balances the skills, am i happy with vault as it is? not really, i dont like the idea of a "self knockback", will i use it? probably not

See but that's my point. Every other weapon line got an upgrade with their Scribing skill. Bow did not. That is not balance. That is the opposite. If this skill belongs on any weapon line, it belongs on Sword & Shield, not Bow. But what did they do with that skill line? They added a Scribing skill where the shield can be THROWN 28 meters and return automatically back making every troll tank like Captain America now. It's ridiculous. Put Vault on the Sword 7 Board skill line, remove the Captain America shield skill andd then give Bow a skill that is ranged.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

when i saw a video showing the scribed fighters guild skill that looked weird to me too, the waving a torch around thing

It's not how it looks. It's how it puts bow users at a disadvantage & out of balance.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

and all that matters to me is having fun in cyro, i know my build isnt meta and wont be effective against everyone, especially those who actually do care about being competitive lol

You're fine in Cyro. I was just teasing you a bit. :-) But some of us do care about being competitive and this issue is real to us.

i mean they could do something similar eventually, this is only the "first round" of scribing skills, its possible they will add more

the way i could see vault right now is more of a utlity skill to get out of dodge while providing some bonuses (because you can make it heal and such as well)

will it be useful in every build? probably not, as i noted i dont really have an intention of using it right now (not to mention all the grind to get all the stuff to make it useable in the first place with the ink and scripts)

i kind of figured the jabs on bow usage were for sport lol, if i can give people an enjoyable fight thats good enough for me lol

NyassaV · June 8

For consistency with Melee range abilities it should have a 8m range but 10 would be more generous.

SandandStars · June 9

yep, bows have always been neglected

someone doesnt find them interesting