Sets

yadibroz · May 1

Why is there more sets in the game when there is already at least 500 sets and at least 30 of them are used, this need to stop, we don't need more sets, we need rework all of them. Do you agree.

TaSheen · May 1

I don't. I use what's useful for me, and it's not up to me to decide what the devs like to do with stuff like that.

tomofhyrule · May 1

I don't see the problem. If it's not useful, then just decon it. But I'd rather have zones drop themed gear to those zones than have them drop blue Rubedite Greaves of Magicka or something. How many people do Wrothgar dailies and are happy that they get generic gear from the dailies instead of the Briarheart Dagger?

Besides, not every set needs to be meta. There are some sets that are 100% for fun sets, and it's great to throw them on alts to just have fun.

jaws343 · May 1

It really doesn't matter if they add more sets or adjust current sets. At the end of either options, there are going to be good sets and bad sets either way. It really makes no different if the set has name X and has been around for 5 years, or if the set has name Y and has been around for one patch.

And that is really only for peak effectiveness. In nearly any content, you can get by with almost any set in the game to some extant. I mean, if you are trying to use a tanking set as a DPS, then yeah, probably not great. But take your pick of the hundreds of DPS options and unless you are score pushing, you can make it work.

And even with a rework of existing sets, you realize that a similar X number of sets would still be the best, mathematically. It is practically impossible to make all sets and set combinations perform identically. People who are trying to squeeze as much DPS out of a setup as possible are naturally going to gravitate to combinations that outperform other combinations by a few % points. That will not change. You could redesign every set in the game, but you would still come back to the same complaint. Because people want to use the best when they can. It isn't a requirement though, I've literally been using the same solo and dungeon setup since Elswyr dropped, completing content with zero issues, including vet clears on newer trials.

Nerouyn · May 1

Personally I never saw much value in this part of the game.

Armor sets with weird little Does X random thing once every 15 seconds effects on them.

Don't want and love that most of them are rewards for content I don't enjoy. A perfect marriage.

Love me my plain old Twice Born Star and Julianos. Gets the job done. At least for the content I enjoy and want to play.

Tried to Telvanni Efficiency set levelling new alts and it's quite good. And to mix it up just ever so slightly did an Order's Wrath for an alt account instead of Julianos.

Wild times!

New spells or abilities? Cool. Magic does what magic does. More please.

Shoulder pads, hats (i.e. monster sets) or other clothing having some bizarre effect on my abilities or whatever?

No thanks.

BXR_Lonestar · May 1

Not all 500 sets need to be endgame worthy sets. There should definitely be a sliding scale of "beginner" sets and endgame sets. But a few things I think should be addressed are:

1. Hybridization effectively cut the amount of meta sets in half. There used to be a meta setup for magika characters, and a meta setup for stamina characters. But now, they are basically all the same. Getting rid of hybridization would instantly expand the build options by 50%, creating more build variety at the endgame level.

2. When they changed the way damage scaled to strongly favor max weapon/spell power over max stats, it also rendered many sets/builds obsolete and not viable anymore. This should be undone so an investment in maximum stats is basically the same as an investment into weapon/spell power. This would make max stat builds viable again.

Veinblood1965 · May 1

New people need the odd sets, they use whatever they can find. It's better than the basic gear you start with.

When I start a new toon I don't use CP points, no gold and no help at all from any of my other toons. It's more fun that way worry about dying to an open world trash mob lol.

You'd be surprised what even a trash set does to help. What's really surprising is how soon you can start doing moderate damage even with a trash set.

El_Borracho · May 1

@BXR_Lonestar I agree, but the underlying problem remains that once you hit CP 160, the beginner sets are mostly obsolete. For instance, Order of Diagna. I used that set between Level 50 and sometime before CP 160 because it felt like a good set, it was easy to farm (this was before the stickerbook), and I had no idea what I was doing. I wouldn't consider touching that set again. But at the same time, I am not in favor of eliminating it, because I agree. It helps new players.

At the same time, there are sets out there that are complete trash. Spelunker and Prayer Shawl are two prime examples of base game sets that I can not explain why you would use. Treasure Hunter sounds good until you realize that there are many other sources for Major Prophesy/Savagery. And these are dungeon sets, not even overland, so you went in there hoping to get good gear and you came out with these. And since its a dungeon, you need to run it multiple times to get a full set. Of gear that has no use other than providing mats.

As for overland, Withered Hand? Wilderqueen? Dreamer's Mantle? LOL. Even when I had no idea what I was doing, I could tell these sets are next to useless, and that is before I had the chance to compare them to other overland sets.

There should be an overhaul of these sets. But instead the devs are focused on nerfing viable, fun sets because someone in Cyrodiil can't emotionally handle losing. To the point Way of Fire has become a meta PVP set. It should be the opposite.

yadibroz · May 1

I also feel if they remove the five piece to four piece only with the effect, it would be better with more option or add a another slot like necklace or rings, would be nice again for more option.

Elyu · May 1

Similar to sentiments expressed above:

There should be a sliding scale of sets from beginner >> advanced
But beginner sets should not be useless when you reach "endgame" (whatever that is)
There should be an in-game system to encourage players to advance, because although as Nerouyn mentions you are free to play with any sets and be mostly functional, it is an MMO and running with "meme" builds in group content is just a recipe for resentment (e.g. when I see heavy attack builds in a vet DLC dungeon)
Hybridisation either needs to be reversed, or fully realised. As @BXR_Lonestar pointed out, it essentially halved build variety - that's a bad thing.
There needs to be more skill options for build diversity, build diversity shouldn't all be locked behind gear (scribing might help, we'll see). Side note - excellent opportunity here to revamp ww and vamp skill lines - how to make them integrate would be to add a "normal" skill line that is only accessible when not cursed, so you have to make a choice which skill line to add to your roster - normal, ww or vamp.
Old gear needs to be revamped to fit into points 1+2

yadibroz · May 1

Elyu wrote: »

Similar to sentiments expressed above:
There should be a sliding scale of sets from beginner >> advanced

But beginner sets should not be useless when you reach "endgame" (whatever that is)

There should be an in-game system to encourage players to advance, because although as Nerouyn mentions you are free to play with any sets and be mostly functional, it is an MMO and running with "meme" builds in group content is just a recipe for resentment (e.g. when I see heavy attack builds in a vet DLC dungeon)

Hybridisation either needs to be reversed, or fully realised. As @BXR_Lonestar pointed out, it essentially halved build variety - that's a bad thing.

There needs to be more skill options for build diversity, build diversity shouldn't all be locked behind gear (scribing might help, we'll see). Side note - excellent opportunity here to revamp ww and vamp skill lines - how to make them integrate would be to add a "normal" skill line that is only accessible when not cursed, so you have to make a choice which skill line to add to your roster - normal, ww or vamp.

Old gear needs to be revamped to fit into points 1+2

True, you know it

katanagirl1 · May 1

I don’t like the OP sets that have been coming out lately, especially for PvP. They keep nerfing the classes but make gear with stacks and stacks of stuff, probably not good for performance and certainly not good for the game.

SkaraMinoc · May 1

yadibroz wrote: »

Why is there more sets in the game when there is already at least 500 sets and at least 30 of them are used, this need to stop, we don't need more sets, we need rework all of them. Do you agree.

30 sets is way too low.

The data is not public but Pareto principle is probably safe to use here.

654 sets according to eso-hub.com's All Sets page.
document.getElementById('searchable-table-sets').rows.length

654 * 0.2 = 130.8

In other words, 80% of all sets equipped by players are represented by just 130 sets.

Vulkunne · May 1

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

Why is there more sets in the game when there is already at least 500 sets and at least 30 of them are used, this need to stop, we don't need more sets, we need rework all of them. Do you agree.

30 sets is way too low.

The data is not public but Pareto principle is probably safe to use here.

654 sets according to eso-hub.com's All Sets page.
document.getElementById('searchable-table-sets').rows.length

654 * 0.2 = 130.8

In other words, 80% of all sets equipped by players are represented by just 130 sets.

Exactly,

Its easy to see there are too many sets in the game however I wonder if they might do more harm than good trying to reduce these in size.

I think its important to just send a friendly reminder to the devs once in a while about what is useful and what might need some attention. Because if we see a problem and say nothing then we're just as much part of the problem. Besides, staying silent, knowing there's an issue or perhaps maybe a better way of doing things, yet saying nothing is no way to treat a friend and its not nice. Especially seeing how we're the ones using the sets.

LunaFlora · May 1

i like that new sets regularly get added.
for example for me Tharriker's Strike is a new favourite set that's coming in update 42. and it is craftable!

just only use the sets you like

Ittrix · May 1

What I really wish is that good sets actually felt different to use. It's a pretty small handful of PvE viable sets that actually encourage playing differently, and they're not particularly rewarding.

As an example, I play the same way, regardless of whether I'm wearing whorl and nirn or mother's sorrow and false gods.
I could wear something like Master Architect and regularly change up my rotation whenever I used my ultimate.
I'd have to go farm an off meta set in a trial hardly anyone wants to run and deal with my DPS tanking though, so why would I or anyone else do that?

I don't think ZoS has enough control over balance to really remedy this, but it is a bit sad to see.

vsrs_au · May 1

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

Why is there more sets in the game when there is already at least 500 sets and at least 30 of them are used, this need to stop, we don't need more sets, we need rework all of them. Do you agree.

30 sets is way too low.

The data is not public but Pareto principle is probably safe to use here.

654 sets according to eso-hub.com's All Sets page.
document.getElementById('searchable-table-sets').rows.length

654 * 0.2 = 130.8

In other words, 80% of all sets equipped by players are represented by just 130 sets.

Aren't you overlooking the fact that even the sets which behave the same (or very similarly) also look different? These sets are all a combination of function and appearance.

RebornV3x · May 2

I think some sets do need updating there are plenty of older sets and even some that are outright horrible that could use some love and there are plenty of sets that are amazing but a sliver away from being meta and its frustrating.

ToRelax · May 2

jaws343 wrote: »

It really doesn't matter if they add more sets or adjust current sets. At the end of either options, there are going to be good sets and bad sets either way. It really makes no different if the set has name X and has been around for 5 years, or if the set has name Y and has been around for one patch.

And that is really only for peak effectiveness. In nearly any content, you can get by with almost any set in the game to some extant. I mean, if you are trying to use a tanking set as a DPS, then yeah, probably not great. But take your pick of the hundreds of DPS options and unless you are score pushing, you can make it work.

And even with a rework of existing sets, you realize that a similar X number of sets would still be the best, mathematically. It is practically impossible to make all sets and set combinations perform identically. People who are trying to squeeze as much DPS out of a setup as possible are naturally going to gravitate to combinations that outperform other combinations by a few % points. That will not change. You could redesign every set in the game, but you would still come back to the same complaint. Because people want to use the best when they can. It isn't a requirement though, I've literally been using the same solo and dungeon setup since Elswyr dropped, completing content with zero issues, including vet clears on newer trials.

They certainly could balance sets to a pretty high degree if they wanted to. But it's no coincidence that Bloodthorn < Amberplasm < Wretched Vitality, for example.

yadibroz · May 2

LunaFlora wrote: »

i like that new sets regularly get added.
for example for me Tharriker's Strike is a new favourite set that's coming in update 42. and it is craftable!

just only use the sets you like

It will be nerf

yadibroz · May 2

Ittrix wrote: »

What I really wish is that good sets actually felt different to use. It's a pretty small handful of PvE viable sets that actually encourage playing differently, and they're not particularly rewarding.

As an example, I play the same way, regardless of whether I'm wearing whorl and nirn or mother's sorrow and false gods.
I could wear something like Master Architect and regularly change up my rotation whenever I used my ultimate.
I'd have to go farm an off meta set in a trial hardly anyone wants to run and deal with my DPS tanking though, so why would I or anyone else do that?

I don't think ZoS has enough control over balance to really remedy this, but it is a bit sad to see.

The greddy that is the issue,more money less work.