vampires

fenn1539 · April 27

i finally have been able to join the forums and this is a topic i have wanted to talk about for a while but i personally feel the bit about vamp abilites costing less and normal abilites costing more needs to be removed from vamps and replaced with instead one of the frenzy morphs being changed to make all abilites cost their value in hp with than the base vamp passive would boost your hp regen per level by up to maybe 20% or something since when i think vampires and especially blood magic, i dont think "HEY ALL YOUR MAGIC ABILITIES ARE WORTHLESS CAUSE FOR SOME REASON THEY COST MORE FOR YA TO USE AS A VAMPIRE!!!! OH AND THE BLOOD MAGIC YOU GET IS LIMITED AND BAD!!!!" AND the LOSS in hp regen per level also doesnt fit the theme of a vampire AT [snip] ALL.... literally, vamps are supposed to be the alucard type mother *** who eat a *** shotgun barrel, *** around and find out, and somehow walk away 2 seconds later cause their body would make deadpools regeneration blush..... not someone so anemic that a papercut *** kills em.........

[edited for profanity bypass]

Yamenstein · April 27

Does Vampire need a rework? Again. Yeah probably. Won’t happen any time soon I reckon. I don’t know what the ZOS creative team philosophy is when it comes to skills - but yeah vampire one of those lines you go for just one passive. Everything else is meh.

redlink1979 · April 27

Vampires used to be better but they were balanced.
Same old story.

Elvenheart · April 27

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

HailstoSithis · April 27

redlink1979 wrote: »

Vampires used to be better but they were balanced.
Same old story.

I definitely preferred the old vampire. I stopped caring for vampire after they changed it.

Arcturus · April 27

I just hope we get a proper VL transformation rather than this weird plastic mimicry Lamae somehow thought was a good idea.
If that means being a vampire has no impact/flavor in humanoid form beyond a simple cosmetic change I'd be cool with that.

Hopefully a Pure-Blooded one, I'm tired of Elder Scrolls games forcing us to be lowborns or half-bloods in the case of Skyrim.

It'd literally just be a werewolf ultimate with two bars, it can't be that hard to code.

VL BARS Magic+Melee mode.
WW BARS Offensive+Defensive stance

Only thing everyone can agree on is that both are garbage and on top of that vampire gets in the way of PvP annoying players that don't want anything to do with it because of undeath.

These "niches" are also gameplay gold mines ZOS could literally MILK if they got around to do it (greymoor launch had a HUGE spike of players coming from places like VTMB interested in vampire stuff until they saw how garbage it was). No worthwhile MMO out there has vampires/werewolves as a player accessible feature.

JanTanhide · April 27

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

Have you tried V Rising? It's a great game and has a fairly good following. It's not an MMO but you can create your own server and invite your friends. If you do play it and don't like how the Camera works (i hate it), there is a Mod called Normal Camera that basically makes it just like ESO. Much better in my opinion.

alexj4596b14_ESO · April 27

Honestly, the skill line even if its not 'perfect' needs to be remade. At this point its a waist of code, and just make pvp way worse than it should be.

Vulkunne · April 28

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

Unfort they're right. Best to be thankful for what we have because whose to say what another vamp rework might bring? WW however seems to be really buggy and doesn't really seem to play out that well, especially in PvP.

In short, yeah it could be better, parts of WW need to be improved but what will we get? Sometimes better to keep what you have.

fenn1539 · April 28

Yamenstein wrote: »

Does Vampire need a rework? Again. Yeah probably. Won’t happen any time soon I reckon. I don’t know what the ZOS creative team philosophy is when it comes to skills - but yeah vampire one of those lines you go for just one passive. Everything else is meh.

true....

fenn1539 · April 28

Arcturus wrote: »

I just hope we get a proper VL transformation rather than this weird plastic mimicry Lamae somehow thought was a good idea.
If that means being a vampire has no impact/flavor in humanoid form beyond a simple cosmetic change I'd be cool with that.

Hopefully a Pure-Blooded one, I'm tired of Elder Scrolls games forcing us to be lowborns or half-bloods in the case of Skyrim.

It'd literally just be a werewolf ultimate with two bars, it can't be that hard to code.

VL BARS Magic+Melee mode.
WW BARS Offensive+Defensive stance

Only thing everyone can agree on is that both are garbage and on top of that vampire gets in the way of PvP annoying players that don't want anything to do with it because of undeath.

These "niches" are also gameplay gold mines ZOS could literally MILK if they got around to do it (greymoor launch had a HUGE spike of players coming from places like VTMB interested in vampire stuff until they saw how garbage it was). No worthwhile MMO out there has vampires/werewolves as a player accessible feature.

honestly that would be a change i would 100% be here for to just make better passive abilities and than like ya said, give them a werewolf transformation with 2 bars with the tradeoff being that you get saddled with a weakness to templar abilites, fighters guild abilites, AND the big weakness to fire dmg to symbolize holy magic doing a number on ya with since the line about vamp ability cost reduction would no longer mean anything, it would instead just give you UP TO maybe like a 10% ability cost reduction instead or something with than the health regen thing also being something i still 100% stand by needs to be inversed because undead is a tank ability so its a pain in the ass that you get PUNISHED for making a vamp tank like that...

fenn1539 · April 28

Vulkunne wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

Unfort they're right. Best to be thankful for what we have because whose to say what another vamp rework might bring? WW however seems to be really buggy and doesn't really seem to play out that well, especially in PvP.

In short, yeah it could be better, parts of WW need to be improved but what will we get? Sometimes better to keep what you have.

i mean your probably right because no matter how good a suggestion anyone gives zos, its not likely that they will listen to us and will only hear the 'X needs a rework' part and do whatever THEY think is good even tho as they have shown too often in past, they dont know *** about whats good or bad........ hell they cant even make a good set of vampire PASSIVE abilities let alone active ones so yea.....

Vulkunne · April 28

fenn1539 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

Unfort they're right. Best to be thankful for what we have because whose to say what another vamp rework might bring? WW however seems to be really buggy and doesn't really seem to play out that well, especially in PvP.

In short, yeah it could be better, parts of WW need to be improved but what will we get? Sometimes better to keep what you have.

i mean your probably right because no matter how good a suggestion anyone gives zos, its not likely that they will listen to us and will only hear the 'X needs a rework' part and do whatever THEY think is good even tho as they have shown too often in past, they dont know *** about whats good or bad........ hell they cant even make a good set of vampire PASSIVE abilities let alone active ones so yea.....

Absolutely. They're not listening. Makes me wonder sometimes, if they aren't listening to us, what is important to them?

It's a good question and one that maybe I should have asked sooner. Still love ESO though. Oh well it is what it is.

fenn1539 · April 28

Vulkunne wrote: »

Absolutely. They're not listening. Makes me wonder sometimes, if they aren't listening to us, what is important to them?

It's a good question and one that maybe I should have asked sooner. Still love ESO though. Oh well it is what it is.

yea with if whoever cleaned my original post of the swearing is readin this, PLEASE AT LEAST make blood mist work like lightning streak and just instantly tp you its max distance as opposed to clunkily pulling up a ground aoe aiming reticle before than not just forcing you to press mb1 but to full on double tap the ability key specifically.... it *** up SO DAMN MANY rotations for no good reason when we already had streak which was just implemented better and coulda been 1:1 copied on this part......

Elvenheart · April 28

JanTanhide wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sadly, vampires and werewolves can never be made too good, because then everyone would choose to be one or the other, and the game would have to be renamed Elder Vampires and Werewolves Online. They are meant to be niche alternatives more for the fantasy of getting to be one or the other.

Originally, ESO was simply going to be a stopping point for me on the way to a game I was really waiting for, Worlds of Darkness, a vampire MMO. it got canceled, and unfortunately, there are just no good games out there that focus on vampires are werewolves, probably because maybe they would not be successful. And now, thanks to the grim focus permaglow my vampire looks like a giant hazard light.

Have you tried V Rising? It's a great game and has a fairly good following. It's not an MMO but you can create your own server and invite your friends. If you do play it and don't like how the Camera works (i hate it), there is a Mod called Normal Camera that basically makes it just like ESO. Much better in my opinion.

I’ll check that out!

Wildberryjack · April 28

Vampires get stronger as they feed but in this game we get weaker. It's backward and needs to be fixed. I'm about at the point of just curing all my vampires because it's worthless, unlike werewolf who becomes a wrecking machine when transformed.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 28

It is a damn shame as well as lorewise a Blood Scion would be so far above a mortal character it would be like comparing a Lich to a Draugr, shame we cannot experience the true power that being one would bestow without it causing a massive balance issue, imagine being able to rip your enemies in half with your bare hands.

notyuu · April 28

Making vampire not terrible and fixing the undeath problem would be as simple as this

Vamprism
-10/30/60/100% health recovery
+30/60/90/120% health recovery
Taking fire damage stops health recovery from working for 2/3/4/8 seconds
+5/8/13/20% fire damage taken
-6/10/16/24% vampire ability cost
+3/5/8/12% regualr ability cost

Undeath
While you are at vampire stage 3 or higher reduce your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health
While you are at vampire stage 4 increase your health recovery by up to 300% based on your Missing health

is it a perfect solution? no, but it's better than just "tweaking the numbers" and making everybody angry as a result, plus it'd fit better with vampire lore without being disgustingly overpowered, like the current undeath is

alexj4596b14_ESO · April 28

notyuu wrote: »

Making vampire not terrible and fixing the undeath problem would be as simple as this

Vamprism
-10/30/60/100% health recovery
+30/60/90/120% health recovery
Taking fire damage stops health recovery from working for 2/3/4/8 seconds
+5/8/13/20% fire damage taken
-6/10/16/24% vampire ability cost
+3/5/8/12% regualr ability cost

Undeath
While you are at vampire stage 3 or higher reduce your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health
While you are at vampire stage 4 increase your health recovery by up to 300% based on your Missing health

is it a perfect solution? no, but it's better than just "tweaking the numbers" and making everybody angry as a result, plus it'd fit better with vampire lore without being disgustingly overpowered, like the current undeath is

This would have to add more health recovery as well for it to be effective but this isn't bad.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 28

My take on the Vampirism system

Fire Damage based on stage (stays the same)

Outside Healing received reduced based on stage (3%/6%/9%/12%

Health Recovery increased based on stage (100/200/300/400)

Stage Based Abilities

Stage 1: Dark Stalker (Stays the same)

Stage 2: Strike from Shadows replaced with Unnatural Movement

The reason for this is to make the supposed weaker Vampirism stages the run and hide stages, higher Vampire stages "3 and 4" where your supposed to be stronger would be intended for combat

Stage 3: Undeath changed so when at full health you take 10% less damage.

The Reason for this is it will still be powerful but only when the Vampire is able to keep their health at 100%, it will provide greater upfront defense when at full health but will not be as overpowered when the Vampire has lower health

Stage 4: Unnatural Movement replaced with Vampiric Frenzy, when you kill an enemy gain a stack of Bloodlust for 10 seconds increasing weapon and spell power by 50 points and movement speed by 5%, this can happen up to every 0.5 seconds and can stack up to 10 times.

The reason for this would be to replace the existing Blood Frenzy skill with a proper Vampire themed passive ability

Vampire Skills Changed

Perfect Scion is identical to the base morph but now adds a passive when slotted, when you feed on an "NPC" when you are already at stage 4 briefly ascend to stage 5 for 10 minutes removing all Vampire related weaknesses.

With this it would make the ultimate skill a bit more attractive then it currently is allowing you to obtain Vampiric Perfection without needing to transform, it would however require you to bite an enemy so bloody mara's would not suffice.

Mezmerise and it's morphs will activate a synergy allowing you to "bite" weaker NPCs instantly killing them and restoring your health.

This skill would sound OP but it really wouldn't be as the only NPCs it would work on are already those you can kill in 1 or 2 hits, this skill would simply be a means for the less stealth oriented vampire to feed.

Blood Mist visuals should be a cloud of Bats instead of a reddish pool.

New Skill: Vampiric Fortitude (replaces Blood Frenzy)
Consume stored blood to instantly restore 50% of your maximum resources, reducing your Vampirism Stage by 1, cannot be used when at Stage 1.

Morph A - You no longer regenerate Magicka and Stamina from this skill but you recover all of your Health and gain "Undying Warrior" increasing your health by 50% of your maximum for 10 seconds.

Morph B - Restore amount increased to 75% from 50%.

Vulkunne · April 28

If you think about it, the problem with the Vampire Health Recovery penalty is how its become a straight debuff to Health Recovery among a large portion of the player characters in the game, whereas by now its safe to assume most players are on Vamp vs WW. Same as before they made the major changes to Vamp. Different process but basically the same buffs people liked from before, which makes sense.

So with that said they may as well have just nerfed Health Recovery globally because anyone using Vamp will get the debuff.

fenn1539 · May 2

notyuu wrote: »

Making vampire not terrible and fixing the undeath problem would be as simple as this

Vamprism
-10/30/60/100% health recovery
+30/60/90/120% health recovery
Taking fire damage stops health recovery from working for 2/3/4/8 seconds
+5/8/13/20% fire damage taken
-6/10/16/24% vampire ability cost
+3/5/8/12% regualr ability cost

Undeath
While you are at vampire stage 3 or higher reduce your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health
While you are at vampire stage 4 increase your health recovery by up to 300% based on your Missing health

is it a perfect solution? no, but it's better than just "tweaking the numbers" and making everybody angry as a result, plus it'd fit better with vampire lore without being disgustingly overpowered, like the current undeath is

that feels really thought out and persoanlly i would agree fits both the theme of vampires in lore while also just making them way *** better while also getting rid of some that that tho i love, i agree is a massive negative since when something is as *** as vampire BUT plenty of people go that hard into vampire up to level 3 for just one singular passive, you know something is WAY overpowered about that passive and that literally everything needs a rework...

fenn1539 · May 2

also vamps capstone ability being that you turn invisible when you run is so trash as while its a good ability, as it stands, going to stage 4 vamp for a still not free invisibility that has a cast time essentially as it doesnt instantly start is so bad.