Can Alliance Tripots be a thing?

HowlKimchi · April 2024

Let PVPers get the pots we need through the content we like to do please. Would also be a good way to drop columbine prices probably.

Sakiri · April 2024

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Let PVPers get the pots we need through the content we like to do please. Would also be a good way to drop columbine prices probably.

Probably not, actually.

Columbine is used in a lot of things, not just tripots.

Resist pots. Think ulti pots. Certain foods.

HowlKimchi · April 2024

Sakiri wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Let PVPers get the pots we need through the content we like to do please. Would also be a good way to drop columbine prices probably.

Probably not, actually.

Columbine is used in a lot of things, not just tripots.

Resist pots. Think ulti pots. Certain foods.

Yes but tripots is likely the most used pots in the game right now. Regardless, my main point is that letting PVPers buy an essential part of our loadouts through the currency awarded through our preferred game mode would be a nice change.

Jaraal · April 2024

We've been asking for this for years. ZOS has continuously ignored us, without even the benefit of a "No."

Sakiri · April 2024

PvPers aren't the only people that use them, as a side note.

Galeriano2 · April 2024

Sakiri wrote: »

PvPers aren't the only people that use them, as a side note.

PvPers were also not the only people using spell power pots when their prices got obnoxious at some point. It were actually PvErs who were using them more. Still ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices. Today nobody is complaining about prices of corn flower which was a thing before AP spell power pots were added.

Avran_Sylt · April 2024

Would be interesting how AP resources might influence PvE mainliners into PvP. Or just give more of a stanglehold for PvP guilds intent on AP farming with a PvE mindset...

(AP gain is atrocious through Battlegrounds)

HowlKimchi · April 2024

Sakiri wrote: »

PvPers aren't the only people that use them, as a side note.

Yes I think everyone is aware. That's why I said it's the most used pots in the game. Thanks for the clarification though.

Galeriano2 · April 2024

In my opinion ZoS is planning to add alternative options to make magicka+stamina potions with potion hybrydisation which was announced to happen later this year. It's a perfect opportunity to solve multiple issues with potions economy.

They may combinine major crit buffs and major wep/spell dmg buffs. This will create an abundane of flowers with crit or wep+spell dmg effects so to avoid it ZoS can switch some of that effects into something else and provide us with 1 or 2 more flowers that will have max magicka+stamina similarly to culumbine. So maybe we would be able to make potions that give max magicka+stamina+something else like crit or immovability or just potions that give max magicka+stamina without 3rd effect that would be a cheaper replacement fopr tristat pots.

fred4 · April 2024

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Let PVPers get the pots we need through the content we like to do please. Would also be a good way to drop columbine prices probably.

Careful what you wish for. There is a much higher than average proportion of Columbine in Imperial City alchemy parcels, relative to the other plants in those parcels. When they were introduced, years ago, Columbine prices fell from a, then, high of 500 to more like 200. That said, Tel Var value gradually fell from 10 gold, when IC was introduced, to around 2 gold for the longest time thereafter. It is only recently that Tel Var value has risen back up to 10 gold (on PC EU). I can only figure that Columbine prices are partly responsible for this. IC is a major source for that plant. In other words, PvPers already have a way to obtain Columbine from PvP, and they are already benefitting from it's high price. Hakeijo is, in fact, not the best (reliable / non-gambling on PA ice staff) way to turn Tel Var into gold. Alchemy parcels have always been better by about 20%. They're just more hassle to price up and sell.

If IC isn't your thing, then one of the reliable markers of what AP are worth has become Dawn-Prism, ever since jewelry writs became worth doing last November. The value of AP is up from 1/5 to around 1/2 gold on PC EU, as measured by Dawn-Prism. The utility of ZOS introducing Alliance War tri-pots would very much depend on their price. There are only a few items from any given zone that are ever worth buying from an NPC. In Cyro this now includes Dawn-Prism, some armor set pieces (Deadly, Vicious Death), with "the Golden" vendor probably fading into obscurity. Alliance War tripots will either have no effect on this balance. If ZOS overprices them, they simply won't be bought. On the other hand, low / well-priced potions would have knock on effects, not just on Columbine prices. Were I to guess, I could see AP value rising as a result, but Tel Var value falling.

PvPers on PC EU IMO already have it good by historical standards. Tel Var are worth a lot and even AP have substantially risen in value, as well as in ease of conversion. Alliance war tri-pots would be convenient, but may only help players who only want those pots. They might devalue, if not AP, then certainly Tel Var. Gold, on the other hand, buys a huge variety of things. Personally I'd rather have the gold, as long as my playstyle - PvP - enables me to generate lots of it, which it does. I know IC is like marmite, but it is one of the most lucrative and interesting ways to make gold in the game. However even Cyrodiil has caught on. Between low-pop and low-score bonuses, one of which was active, I got a 57K defense tick the other day just for throwing myself against some siegers for a few minutes. That was 30K gold right there.

HowlKimchi · April 2024

fred4 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Let PVPers get the pots we need through the content we like to do please. Would also be a good way to drop columbine prices probably.

Careful what you wish for. There is a much higher than average percentage of Columbine in Imperial City alchemy parcels, relative to the other plants in those parcels. When they were introduced, years ago, Columbine prices fell from a, then, high of 500 to more like 200. That said, Tel Var value gradually fell from 10 gold, when IC was introduced, to around 2 gold for the longest time thereafter. It is only recently that Tel Var value has risen back up to 10 gold (on PC EU). I can only figure that Columbine prices are partly responsible for this. IC is a major source for that plant. In other words, PvPers already have a way to obtain Columbine from PvP, and they are already benefitting from it's high price. Hakeijo is, in fact, not the best (reliable / non-gambling on PA ice staff) way to turn Tel Var into gold. Alchemy parcels have always been better by about 20%. They're just more hassle to price up and sell.

If IC isn't your thing, then one of the reliable markers of what AP are worth has become Dawn-Prism, ever since jewelry writs became worth doing last November. The value of AP is up from 1/5 to around 1/2 gold on PC EU, as measured by Dawn-Prism. The utility of ZOS introducing Alliance War tri-pots would very much depend on their price. There are only a few items from any given zone that are ever worth buying from an NPC. In Cyro this now includes Dawn-Prism, some armor set pieces (Deadly, Vicious Death), with "the Golden" vendor probably fading into obscurity. Alliance War tripots will either have no effect on this balance. If ZOS overprices them, they simply won't be bought. On the other hand, low / well-priced potions would have knock on effects, not just on Columbine prices. Were I to guess, I could see AP value rising as a result, but Tel Var value falling. Then again, very cheap prices, aka large oversupply, would probably lower the market value of Columbine, tri-pots, but also AP and Tel Var as a whole.

PvPers on PC EU IMO already have it good by historical standards. Tel Var are worth a lot and even AP have substantially risen in value, as well as in ease of conversion. Alliance war tri-pots would be convenient, but would only help players who only want those pots, since they might also devalue AP and Tel Var as a whole. Gold, on the other hand, buys a huge variety of things. Personally I'd rather have the gold, as long as my playstyle - PvP - enables me to generate lots of it, which it does. I know IC is like marmite, but it is one of the most lucrative and interesting ways to make gold in the game. Even Cyrodiil, however, has caught on. Between low-pop and low-score bonuses, only one of which was active, I got a 57K defense tick the other day just for throwing myself against some siegers for a few minutes. That was 30K gold right there.

Hi fred4! I think i recognize your name some years ago from the pvp section in a long thread about magicka nightblades back when they were far from being meta. Cool to see a familiar name. I changed my forum and account name so you might not recognize it, but w/e.

Yes, I am aware of everything you've listed. I love farming Telvar in IC as well and have made probably 80% of my gold through that game mode alone. The best way to farm it is soloing bosses in no CP IC, where there are hardly any people. But then again I don't consider that PVP anymore because that place is EMPTY. There are times when CP IC has a decent balance of players from each faction, and then farming the bosses there is fun, and some of the best PVP content ive played in any MMO. However, It's more common to have a group of 5+ people go around and take the whole map, and it's almost impossible to keep up with them as a solo player. Cyrodiil roaming and 1vXing is a much funner pvp experience for me.

I am aware that dawn-prism is a decent (but not the best) way to convert AP to gold. Another set that you have not listed is Rallying Cry gambling, which is also decent. But I see no downsides of AP value rising through the introduction of tripots.

I also know that you're a pvp player, and if you think pvp enables you to generate lots of gold on pace with PVE gpm, I have bad news for you... Optimal PVE gold farming methods are waaay more reliable than any optimal pvp related gold farm. But i'm not complaining about that in this post. I can comfortably farm the gold I need for tripots from telvar+ap. I'm just saying, it would (1) be nice if I could directly use AP to buy tripots and not have to deal with trade guilds, and (2) AP tripots would be a nice quality of life change improvement that rewards skilled gameplay on a game mode I prefer.

ESO is not our jobs, and with life getting busier these days, I prefer just logging in to pvp for a couple of hours after work consistently. Recently, this has been together with some friends. They are newer to the game (and thus not that good yet), don't have millions of gold in the bank like I do. And they consistently has to stop playing pvp to "work" for the gold they needs to buy tripots. In short, they can't access the game mode they want to play without gimping themselves by not using tripots. It also feels bad for them everytime they use a tripot. I think that's not nice game design.

Also, I'm well aware that this change would affect the economy, and I firmly believe that it would be a good change. In fact it has happened before, with the introduction of major sorc and proph (and green counterpart) AP pots.

hiyde · April 2024

Just did this math in the other active post on this topic.

To consume 50 tri-pots an hour, it takes about 8 minutes of node farming.
Farm nodes for an hour, you have the wealth to cover 6 hours of PvP.

And that's not considering any other forms of income - just if one wanted to pay for their Tripots via nodefarming. As discussed above, there are ways to convert AP to gold, or even get Columbine directly from IC.

fred4 · April 2024

HowlKimchi wrote: »

But I see no downsides of AP value rising through the introduction of tripots.

I actually revised my post a bunch of times. I'm prone to that, unfortunately. Yes, I agree, there should actually be no downside to the value of AP. I can only see it's value going up. As for Tel Var, I'm not sure how much their recent value gain also comes from war tortes and stuff like that. I suspect Columbine is still one of the major factors.

I also know that you're a pvp player, and if you think pvp enables you to generate lots of gold on pace with PVE gpm, I have bad news for you... Optimal PVE gold farming methods are waaay more reliable than any optimal pvp related gold farm.

Are they now?

A friend farms Dragon Rheum. The gold earning rate we calculated was about 200K per hour at best.

Hyperioxes, a YouTuber, has claimed 650K per hour from Infinite Archive. I have not found this to be true. It is heavily RNG / Rubyblossom Extract related. I didn't get good RNG, but also the price on PC EU has fallen from 700K to 500K, since he made the video. He claimed this might be the most you could make reliably / steadily from PvE. That would put it above PvP alright, but not enough, for me, from a fun-perspective.

After the Hyperioxes video I made it a point to go into CP IC there and then. I prefer CP for a variety of reasons. Greater population and variety of gameplay. Gank protection from the Esoteric Greaves. More damage on bosses. Better healing.

Ownership of flags was mixed and changing hands. All factions were decently represented. I have this session on an unreleased video. There are lots of options as a solo nightblade. Focusing purely on making Tel Var was really interesting. This included:

Leeching from a group of yellows who were doing bosses while most flags were my colour (red). In other words, getting enough damage on the boss to make Tel Var, then Shadow Image / cloak away.
Farming mobs. Avoiding pointless PvP.
Ganking occasionally.
Soloing one or two bosses in a building.
Changing colour eventually and joining the, then, dominating zerg.

I made 35K Tel Var in a little over an hour, so call it 30K an hour or 300K gold at the current exchange rate. I'm not saying there will be any consistency to this. Your point obviously stands, because it's PvP. I might put that to a longer-term test in the future, though. That said, only on nightblade. Not because you gank people, but because you can control what you do and not be forced into, say, an endless battle under a flight of stairs.

Supposing I can repeat that performance - it wasn't under ideal conditions after all - then what PvE activity actually beats this, other than the Infinite Archive claim?

You mentioned 5+ players (dominating and) farming the IC map. If they are very organised, I would probably switch faction, join them, and get the "IC the next boss" addon initialised. Once you have that, you may start getting opportunities to branch off and solo some bosses.

Anyway, I just love IC. I've been doing a lot of PvE lately, but am always thinking of the place as my home.

The only PvE activity I can think of, which can make significantly more, is carrying people. Very occasionally I've been paid millions for very little work. Since I've never specifically looked for such opportunities, though, I'm not sure how much effort would go into that when making it your business.

sarahthes · April 2024

fred4 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

But I see no downsides of AP value rising through the introduction of tripots.

I actually revised my post a bunch of times. I'm prone to that, unfortunately. Yes, I agree, there should actually be no downside to the value of AP. I can only see it's value going up. As for Tel Var, I'm not sure how much their recent value gain also comes from war tortes and stuff like that. I suspect Columbine is still one of the major factors.

I also know that you're a pvp player, and if you think pvp enables you to generate lots of gold on pace with PVE gpm, I have bad news for you... Optimal PVE gold farming methods are waaay more reliable than any optimal pvp related gold farm.

Are they now?

A friend farms Dragon Rheum. The gold earning rate we calculated was about 200K per hour at best.

Hyperioxes, a YouTuber, has claimed 650K per hour from Infinite Archive. I have not found this to be true. It is heavily RNG / Rubyblossom Extract related. I didn't get good RNG, but also the price on PC EU has fallen from 700K to 500K, since he made the video. He claimed this might be the most you could make reliably / steadily from PvE. That would put it above PvP alright, but not enough, for me, from a fun-perspective.

After the Hyperioxes video I made it a point to go into CP IC there and then. I prefer CP for a variety of reasons. Greater population and variety of gameplay. Gank protection from the Esoteric Greaves. More damage on bosses. Better healing.

Ownership of flags was mixed and changing hands. All factions were decently represented. I have this session on an unreleased video. There are lots of options as a solo nightblade. Focusing purely on making Tel Var was really interesting. This included:
Leeching from a group of yellows who were doing bosses while most flags were my colour (red). In other words, getting enough damage on the boss to make Tel Var, then Shadow Image / cloak away.

Farming mobs. Avoiding pointless PvP.

Ganking occasionally.

Soloing one or two bosses in a building.

Changing colour eventually and joining the, then, dominating zerg.

I made 35K Tel Var in a little over an hour, so call it 30K an hour or 300K gold at the current exchange rate. I'm not saying there will be any consistency to this. Your point obviously stands, because it's PvP. I might put that to a longer-term test in the future, though. That said, only on nightblade. Not because you gank people, but because you can control what you do and not be forced into, say, an endless battle under a flight of stairs.

Supposing I can repeat that performance - it wasn't under ideal conditions after all - then what PvE activity actually beats this, other than the Infinite Archive claim?

You mentioned 5+ players (dominating and) farming the IC map. If they are very organised, I would probably switch faction, join them, and get the "IC the next boss" addon initialised. Once you have that, you may start getting opportunities to branch off and solo some bosses.

Anyway, I just love IC. I've been doing a lot of PvE lately, but am always thinking of the place as my home.

The only PvE activity I can think of, which can make significantly more, is carrying people. Very occasionally I've been paid millions for very little work. Since I've never specifically looked for such opportunities, though, I'm not sure how much effort would go into that when making it your business.

Hours of advertising for only a couple runs a week. That's what carries are.

hiyde · April 2024

fred4 wrote: »

The only PvE activity I can think of, which can make significantly more, is carrying people. Very occasionally I've been paid millions for very little work. Since I've never specifically looked for such opportunities, though, I'm not sure how much effort would go into that when making it your business.

Farming nodes in Craglorn or on any starter island can easily net 500k an hour (PC-NA) in mats (even during primetime). Talented farmers (I'm not) pull quite a bit more.

HowlKimchi · April 2024

fred4 wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

But I see no downsides of AP value rising through the introduction of tripots.

I actually revised my post a bunch of times. I'm prone to that, unfortunately. Yes, I agree, there should actually be no downside to the value of AP. I can only see it's value going up. As for Tel Var, I'm not sure how much their recent value gain also comes from war tortes and stuff like that. I suspect Columbine is still one of the major factors.

I also know that you're a pvp player, and if you think pvp enables you to generate lots of gold on pace with PVE gpm, I have bad news for you... Optimal PVE gold farming methods are waaay more reliable than any optimal pvp related gold farm.

Are they now?

A friend farms Dragon Rheum. The gold earning rate we calculated was about 200K per hour at best.

Hyperioxes, a YouTuber, has claimed 650K per hour from Infinite Archive. I have not found this to be true. It is heavily RNG / Rubyblossom Extract related. I didn't get good RNG, but also the price on PC EU has fallen from 700K to 500K, since he made the video. He claimed this might be the most you could make reliably / steadily from PvE. That would put it above PvP alright, but not enough, for me, from a fun-perspective.

After the Hyperioxes video I made it a point to go into CP IC there and then. I prefer CP for a variety of reasons. Greater population and variety of gameplay. Gank protection from the Esoteric Greaves. More damage on bosses. Better healing.

Ownership of flags was mixed and changing hands. All factions were decently represented. I have this session on an unreleased video. There are lots of options as a solo nightblade. Focusing purely on making Tel Var was really interesting. This included:
Leeching from a group of yellows who were doing bosses while most flags were my colour (red). In other words, getting enough damage on the boss to make Tel Var, then Shadow Image / cloak away.

Farming mobs. Avoiding pointless PvP.

Ganking occasionally.

Soloing one or two bosses in a building.

Changing colour eventually and joining the, then, dominating zerg.

I made 35K Tel Var in a little over an hour, so call it 30K an hour or 300K gold at the current exchange rate. I'm not saying there will be any consistency to this. Your point obviously stands, because it's PvP. I might put that to a longer-term test in the future, though. That said, only on nightblade. Not because you gank people, but because you can control what you do and not be forced into, say, an endless battle under a flight of stairs.

Supposing I can repeat that performance - it wasn't under ideal conditions after all - then what PvE activity actually beats this, other than the Infinite Archive claim?

You mentioned 5+ players (dominating and) farming the IC map. If they are very organised, I would probably switch faction, join them, and get the "IC the next boss" addon initialised. Once you have that, you may start getting opportunities to branch off and solo some bosses.

Anyway, I just love IC. I've been doing a lot of PvE lately, but am always thinking of the place as my home.

The only PvE activity I can think of, which can make significantly more, is carrying people. Very occasionally I've been paid millions for very little work. Since I've never specifically looked for such opportunities, though, I'm not sure how much effort would go into that when making it your business.

Yes all good points. I tried IA and got really lucky with 2 rubyblossoms and the dew one with a small amount of the currency, but as you said, it's very RNG dependent and I imagine I wont be that lucky some other times. The first few stages also put me to sleep sadly. It's a good way to get gold by being actually good at combat though, and is my preferred way of making gold in PVE now. However, farming mats in craglorn is so much better for the gpm with the harvest map add-on, and running full movespeed with the associated green cps slotted.

I agree with you about IC though. I really love that place. Just the other day, I was lucky enough to 1v3 some decently skilled players who were confident enough to carry a lot of telvar and got 30k telvar from them in like 5 minutes. These moments are the best and is something I get only in ESO.

About your point of switching factions to join the organized groups, yeah i've done it from time to time when I really need the gold to buy something I want, but it's not something I enjoy doing. I wanna make gold through PVPing, not farming mobs in a pvp enabled map.

Another way to make gold in PVE is if you have three other friends, you can optimize runs on the current DLC dungeon that drops expensive motifs, and split the profits 4 ways. It's also very fun, but harder to organize since (1) you need 3 friends and (2) your schedules need to align, which does not happen very often during the weekdays.

fred4 · April 2024

hiyde wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

The only PvE activity I can think of, which can make significantly more, is carrying people. Very occasionally I've been paid millions for very little work. Since I've never specifically looked for such opportunities, though, I'm not sure how much effort would go into that when making it your business.

Farming nodes in Craglorn or on any starter island can easily net 500k an hour (PC-NA) in mats (even during primetime). Talented farmers (I'm not) pull quite a bit more.

Yeah, but that sounds mind-numbing. If I found a podcast I wanted to listen to, I might consider it. Basically it's OK by me, if this makes more gold than something that's actually fun

.

As far as the OP's post goes, I was only trying to figure out the consequences. I suppose I fear for my beloved IC a little bit, but ... whatever.

HowlKimchi · April 2024

hiyde wrote: »

Just did this math in the other active post on this topic.

To consume 50 tri-pots an hour, it takes about 8 minutes of node farming.
Farm nodes for an hour, you have the wealth to cover 6 hours of PvP.

And that's not considering any other forms of income - just if one wanted to pay for their Tripots via nodefarming. As discussed above, there are ways to convert AP to gold, or even get Columbine directly from IC.

Actually, the starting zones are the best way to get columbine I think. Small map with fast respawn time. Easy to make good routes.

However, considering your statistics +- some variance in a vacuum, If I have to spend an hour or two to fund ~6 hours of pvp, and I only play ESO an hour or two per day, then once every 3 days i have to commit my game time to "work." Sorry to say but that sounds boring AF for me. I'm actually getting sleepy imagining doing it :P. I'm sure some people enjoy the low stakes and relaxing nature of it, but it's sadly not for me or my friends.

For a comparison, we also played GW2 spvp (bgs) and wvw (cyrodiil). Here, there wasn't any "money barrier" to play because there wasn't any mechanic in the game where you had to consistently burn through potions to play optimally. Additionally, there isn't any need to apply to a trade guild in that game, and you can just use the centralized trading system to sell stuff to earn gold. But this is a whole other topic, and I overall prefer ESO more than GW2 , I just wanted to make a comparison since both games are considered casual MMOs that are easy to "pick up and play" or "get back to anytime."

I'm just saying that AP tripots would be a great QoL improvement for people who enjoy Cyrodiil, with the added benefit of lowering price inflation of columbines (probably).

hiyde · April 2024

HowlKimchi wrote: »

However, considering your statistics +- some variance in a vacuum, If I have to spend an hour or two to fund ~6 hours of pvp, and I only play ESO an hour or two per day, then once every 3 days i have to commit my game time to "work." Sorry to say but that sounds boring AF for me.

Sure there's variance and it goes the other way as well.

The only farming I do these days is when I join a weekly guild event. And like clockwork I can pull 500-600k worth of mats during primetime (it would shoot up considerably outside of primetime). If you spend *two* hours doing this, as you referenced above, you're very likely going to fund 12 hours of Cyro potions.

And all of this is just one example. There are plenty of other ways to obtain the gold or mats needed including converting AP to gold.

I've seen a lot of comments of "there isn't time" to farm up what is needed for potions and I became curious how much time would actually be involved.

It works out to 8 mins for each hour of PvP assuming 50 pots an hour consumption rate and no other forms of income.

And I'm sure it would be great if potions cost 90% less or there were free crates of them at the gate. I just don't see a lot of factoring in of the people who enjoy crafting/farming/selling and the impact big changes like this would have on their game enjoyment.

virtus753 · April 2024

hiyde wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

However, considering your statistics +- some variance in a vacuum, If I have to spend an hour or two to fund ~6 hours of pvp, and I only play ESO an hour or two per day, then once every 3 days i have to commit my game time to "work." Sorry to say but that sounds boring AF for me.

I've seen a lot of comments of "there isn't time" to farm up what is needed for potions and I became curious how much time would actually be involved.

It works out to 8 mins for each hour of PvP assuming 50 pots an hour consumption rate and no other forms of income.

There's a difference between "the time does not exist" and "the ratio of time spent grinding mats or gold for a consumable resource to the time spent on activities one actually enjoys is too high to make it worth it." It only takes the latter for people to feel discouraged from playing, and that's what counts when it comes to deciding whether to keep playing and for how long.

gariondavey · April 2024

I've made several threads on this.
Others have, too,
We've tagged @ZOS_Kevin and @ZOS_GinaBruno in most of them. No response yet, unfortunately.

hiyde · April 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

There's a difference between "the time does not exist" and "the ratio of time spent grinding mats or gold for a consumable resource to the time spent on activities one actually enjoys is too high to make it worth it." It only takes the latter for people to feel discouraged from playing, and that's what counts when it comes to deciding whether to keep playing and for how long.

The absolute worst case scenario is 8 minutes of random node farming per hour of PvP.

What should that number be?

HowlKimchi · April 2024

hiyde wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

There's a difference between "the time does not exist" and "the ratio of time spent grinding mats or gold for a consumable resource to the time spent on activities one actually enjoys is too high to make it worth it." It only takes the latter for people to feel discouraged from playing, and that's what counts when it comes to deciding whether to keep playing and for how long.

The absolute worst case scenario is 8 minutes of random node farming per hour of PvP.

What should that number be?

The number can be 0 if AP tripots were a thing. The point is, spending even a little extra time doing something people don't enjoy just to access another part of the game feels like a chore, not fun.

EF321 · April 2024

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

PvPers aren't the only people that use them, as a side note.

PvPers were also not the only people using spell power pots when their prices got obnoxious at some point. It were actually PvErs who were using them more. Still ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices. Today nobody is complaining about prices of corn flower which was a thing before AP spell power pots were added.

Lowered in what way, lol, stop spreading misinformation. Undercutting players by 1 gold per full stack is not lower prices.

PvP players were happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta. No one is complaining today because meta chaser don't use it anymore, but they were complaining whole two years when AP spell pots were a thing and magicka was still meta. What lowered prices was hybridization patch that made these potions irrelevant to meta chasers. All what was achieved with this is new players struggling even more to sell honest goods on already saturated market, there was never a shortage of crafted potions to begin with.

Major_Toughness · April 2024

Make alliances pots only usable with battle spirit active, or while in a PvP zone. However that would then leave the 5 duelers left in the game to buy the "normal" ones.

Then make the alliance health draughts into tri-stat potions.

Galeriano2 · April 2024

EF321 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

PvPers aren't the only people that use them, as a side note.

PvPers were also not the only people using spell power pots when their prices got obnoxious at some point. It were actually PvErs who were using them more. Still ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices. Today nobody is complaining about prices of corn flower which was a thing before AP spell power pots were added.

Lowered in what way, lol, stop spreading misinformation. Undercutting players by 1 gold per full stack is not lower prices.

PvP players were happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta. No one is complaining today because meta chaser don't use it anymore, but they were complaining whole two years when AP spell pots were a thing and magicka was still meta. What lowered prices was hybridization patch that made these potions irrelevant to meta chasers. All what was achieved with this is new players struggling even more to sell honest goods on already saturated market, there was never a shortage of crafted potions to begin with.

Nice chart. Does it take inflation into consideration? Or You will claim that during this almost 2 years time skip between two marked points value of gold was frozen?

Linking that chart without context is just silly. It misses some important details like the fact that between those two marked points pandemic happened and with it influx of players which caused faster inflation and increase of prices for certain basic goods. Fact is that if not for alliance spell power pots that chart You've linked would be way steeper between those two points You've marked.

EF321 · April 2024

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Fact is that if not for alliance spell power pots that chart You've linked would be way steeper between those two points You've marked.

Fact is this chart, lol, that is actual data. It literally is a fact, not my words and not my theories.
You just claimed that it made them cheaper??

You are already changing your claim from "lowering market prices" to "would be way steeper", right after facts were presented to you? You were not aware that historical data exists?

ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices

Galeriano2 wrote: »

if not for alliance spell power pots that chart You've linked would be way steeper

At least pick one false narrative and stick to it

Galeriano2 · April 2024

EF321 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Fact is that if not for alliance spell power pots that chart You've linked would be way steeper between those two points You've marked.

Fact is this chart, lol, that is actual data. It literally is a fact, not my words and not my theories.
You just claimed that it made them cheaper?? You are already changing your claim from "lowering market prices" to "would be way steeper", right after facts were presented to you? You were not aware that historical data exists?

ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices

Galeriano2 wrote: »

if not for alliance spell power pots that chart You've linked would be way steeper

At least pick one false narrative and stick to it

So You admit You didn't took inflation into accoount? And yes if price for some item is Increasing at slower pace than the inflation than price for this item is getting lower. It's basic economy. Not my fault You are getting lost in it.

Lets look at the price of some alchemical ingredient that was always at reliably the same level of use and not affected by changes made by ZoS to alliance pots and hybrydisation to see how inflation alone was affecting prices shall we?

Now put Your two markers in the same places as before. Is the graph steeper of flatter than the one for corn flower? Was spider egg which is not being used to make spell power pots also affected by "PvP players happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta"?

Or was this ingredient (that is not being used for spell power pots) affected by "PvP players happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta"?

Or maybe this ingredient (that is not being used to make spell power pots) was affected by "PvP players happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta"

Now let's look at prices of other ingredient actually used used for making spell power pots alongside corn flower

Isn't that suprising that two main ingredients used for spell power pots despite being in higher demand due to pots being a meta had flatter charts for increase in prices than three other ingredients that were not used for spell power pots? Three other ingredients that I linked and were not used for spell power pots took off more drastically right after first point marked by You. Interresting isn't it?

And suprisingly all linked ingredients wheter they were used for spell power pots or not had noticable increase in prices right inbetween two points marked by You. Is this just a one extra massive coincidence or maybe just maybe it wasn't "PvP players happily rising prices of these AP pots for as long as magicka was meta" that caused corn flower price increase. Maybe it was a inflation caused by a noticable increase of players in pandemic times (which happened around the same time as Your first marked point) that caused prices of majority of goods to go up.

Going by Your logic I would reccomend You to find new false narrative if You want to still fight the fact that AP spell power pots helped to monitor and lower the prices or ingredients used for regular spell power pots.

EF321 · April 2024

Galeriano2 wrote: »

*very big post removed to not clutter thread further*

First of all, thank you for not proving your original point I was replying to:

Galeriano2 wrote: »

ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices. Today nobody is complaining about prices of corn flower which was a thing before AP spell power pots were added.

Of course you didn't because this is a lie, this never happened and there is no data to support your claim. You keep quoting my reply to THIS claim, but now trying to prove completely different point? That's not a nice thing to do. If you keep quoting my chart post, please prove that price of corn flower went down thanks to AP pots? Or stop quoting it out of context to fit your new false narrative, that you switched to after your lie was called out.
I said spell pots never lowered price of corn flower, which was backed up by actual data, it never went down as you originally claimed, only up. And then I pointed out REAL reason why no one is complaining about corn flower today and why it went down, which is meta shift to different potions that use different flowers.

But anyway, let's get to the funny part!

Flatter curve? Flatter curve!?

Your whole "analysis" is based on a curve you see on pictures you presented? Then may I introduce you to... Y-axis!

Is the graph steeper of flatter than the one for corn flower?

Now also put Y-axis on the same scale as corn flower and you tell me?

Cornflower starts at 0 and ends with 1420. Your eggs start with 30 and end with 70. You know how it would look like on the same scale? Well, something like this:

Columbine? Haven't you even looked at this picture before posting it? Didn't you notice that it ends abruptly RIGHT at the moment when corn flower stops being meta and columbine is new meta? That very moment when it shots up, as anything new meta would? Y-axis cuts off at 1150, when modern day price is a bit below ~2000-ish, with peak known to me being at least 2600. The rest of the data is literally off the charts

You posted graph that failed to generate properly and trying to prove something with it...

Same story with Mountain flower, you didn't fact check before posting it, real line after meta shift is very high above what Y-axis has to offer here, you can't even see it.

Lady's smock is carbon copy of corn flower, thanks for posting this. That proves that AP spell pots did not lower prices of crafted pot components, only meta shift did (at that time I marked before). Just like I said

Flatter curve

No wonder such expert in ESO economy has no gold to afford potions

Galeriano2 · April 2024

EF321 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

*very big post removed to not clutter thread further*

First of all, thank you for not proving your original point I was replying to:

Galeriano2 wrote: »

ZoS decided to add spell and weapon power pots to AP vendor which made them easier to get for everyone by lowering market prices. Today nobody is complaining about prices of corn flower which was a thing before AP spell power pots were added.

Of course you didn't because this is a lie, this never happened and there is no data to support your claim. You keep quoting my reply to THIS claim, but now trying to prove completely different point? That's not a nice thing to do. If you keep quoting my chart post, please prove that price of corn flower went down thanks to AP pots? Or stop quoting it out of context to fit your new false narrative, that you switched to after your lie was called out.
I said spell pots never lowered price of corn flower, which was backed up by actual data, it never went down as you originally claimed, only up. And then I pointed out REAL reason why no one is complaining about corn flower today and why it went down, which is meta shift to different potions that use different flowers.

But anyway, let's get to the funny part!

Flatter curve? Flatter curve!? Your whole "analysis" is based on a curve you see on pictures you presented? Then may I introduce you to... Y-axis!

Is the graph steeper of flatter than the one for corn flower?

Now also put Y-axis on the same scale as corn flower and you tell me?
Cornflower starts at 0 and ends with 1420. Your eggs start with 30 and end with 70. You know how it would look like on the same scale? Well, something like this:

Columbine? Haven't you even looked at this picture before posting it? Didn't you notice that it ends abruptly RIGHT at the moment when corn flower stops being meta and columbine is new meta? That very moment when it shots up, as anything new meta would? Y-axis cuts off at 1150, when modern day price is a bit below ~2000-ish, with peak known to me being at least 2600. The rest of the data is literally off the charts You posted graph that failed to generate properly and trying to prove something with it...

Same story with Mountain flower, you didn't fact check before posting it, real line after meta shift is very high above what Y-axis has to offer here, you can't even see it.

Lady's smock is carbon copy of corn flower, thanks for posting this. That proves that AP spell pots did not lower prices of crafted pot components, only meta shift did (at that time I marked before). Just like I said

Flatter curve No wonder such expert in ESO economy has no gold to afford potions

I did prove what I said. Fact that You don't understand it is not my fault.

You know what's truly funny about the about funny part? That it proves You don't understand what You read. I was clearly pointing out few times about flatter curve between points marked by You in corn flower chart yet to prove Your point You not only stretched out Your Y axis to full time period but You also compared things with completly ignoring scale and proportions by putting them on the same chart. Going by Your logic if item A went from costing 1 dollar to 20 dollars and item B went from costing 10k dollars to 20k dollars, item A was less effected by price increase because if You put both on Your Y axis than item A would have flatter curve. It's such a leap in logic that it makes Your argument painfull to read.

Did You look at columbine chart? It first shoots up drastically in the place marked by You in corn flower chart which is around 1,3k days ago which You conveniently descrtibed as "Alliance spell potions".

Same goes for mountain flower it started to shoot up around 1,3k days ago. During the point Yoiu marked as hybrydisation both mountain flower and columbine actually start to slow down in their rapid increase. Isn't that suprising that all ingredients in charts provided even if they were not used for spell power potions started to notice significant price increase excatly at that point marked by You as "alliance spell potions"? And even ingredient that were not used for both spell power and tristat potions started to notice the same increase in the same moment. Are You really not understanding what inflation is?

Both lady smock and corn flower within the same time frame marked by You noticed way less steep increase in price when compared to other mentioned ingredients. So it's pretty unusuall that two most wanted flowers within marked by You time frame have noticed less drastic increase in prices than flowers that weren't ingredients for meta potions. Almost makes You think that there was a factor that was slowing down that price increase. Funnily enough You marked and described that factor in Your corn flower chart. If You look at columbine, spider egg or mountain flower You will notice that all three have very similar steep increase for around 200-300 days starting around 1,3k days ago but when it comes to corn flower and lady smock their increase is way less steep and spread longer in time for around 600-700 days starting from 1,3k days ago so something was definietly holding back prices of those two ingredients from skyrocketinhg like the others despite both flowers being in way higher demand.

If You don't understand what I am saying that's fine just say it but please don't make some wierd comebacks that make no sense and prove only that You didn't read carefully what I wrote and that You pretty much don;t understand basic economics. Like seriously Your Y axis argument just hurts to think about.

Making assumptions about others is a bad habit often coming from lack of arguments. I may not be the best ESO seller in history but I am still doing fine enough to not care much about lack of resources to make potions for myself

DrNukenstein · April 2024

"Wealth of Nations" by the classical economist, Adam Smith, is a great book. It exposes the reader to the fundamental laws and mechanics that structure modern capitalist economies.

This is a videogame, and there's totally no need for conjecture on economics like that. AP tripots or alternatives to Columbine would absolutely make the game better.

There are only two sincere places that an argument against can come from:

-It is an opportunity to flex your understanding of economic principles and show the readers how smart you are

-Your primary outlet for play is the in game economy. lol.