Request for Example ToT Games

sayswhoto · March 17

Could someone that is at the top of the leaderboards please post some examples of challenging games and also an explanation of the thought process? I'm finding it difficult to achieve consistently high win rates and would like to study some high level gameplay.

I've searched YouTube/Twitch, and, so far, I'm only seeing tutorials and snippets of game segments.

sayswhoto · March 20

Since no response so far, I will just post a game I had against a player that is consistently top 5 on the NA leaderboards. And no I'm not promoting a YouTube channel. Just reading the forums, I feel like there might be some interest. Please feel free to give feedback or suggestions on how I can improve.

This person bested me 4-5 games in a row. When I asked if I was making any mistakes, my opponent's reply was "no I'm just lucky". However, I will be more critical of my own gameplay.

Orgnum and Pelin were picked by my opponent just about every time. I don't know if this is some hint to a high win rate meta or not. Looking back at the example game, here are some mistakes I made and observations:

Turn 2: I'm a strong believer in that the initial turns and card draws can decide the entire game. I should have denied the Orgnum card early on Turn 2 by buying it and also Druid King Vestments. My opponent picked a strong Pelin cards on Turn 1, so the tempo of the game was already against me. This was probably the mistake that cost me the game.
Throughout the game I was going for a druid combo this approach might have been too slow.
I could've probably denied an additional 1 or 2 Orgnum cards later in the game.
My patron picks of Druid and Almalexia are basically just standard second turn player picks. Compared to the other decks, they don't have as many game winning cards for the Turn 1 player to pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N1rNkgzjRY

Seraphayel · March 20

I came upon this guy on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/YC8dsyT7k5g?si=6WWooYObW6fUow2b

I‘d say he’s decently skilled, although sometimes I really question his thought process and he makes mistakes (like all of us). To get some bigger picture of the thought process and the card values / patrons he’s mostly spot on though, so this could definitely help you.

The most important part in the first 1-2 turns is either get incredibly good cards or cards that give coins. Getting as much coins in the first round can be crucial for the later game. So if you have the choice between a card that gives you coin or one that gives you power/prestige, go for the coin unless the other card is one of the “great“ 4 coin cards.

spartaxoxo · March 20

Two things that jumped out at me from watching your video is that you could work on deck and tavern control. You ignored cards that could help you cycle through trash in your deck faster, and you didn't make much use of the Druid patron. For example, there was a turn when you had vestments and deep wood ritual. You could have used ritual to clear some of the tavern cards and then used your coin to buy yourself a card. You could have then acquired the agent that your opponent ended up buying the next turn.

Edit

Another thing is that I think you underestimated the value of the druid agents in building for druid combos.

Personofsecrets · March 20

sayswhoto wrote: »

Since no response so far, I will just post a game I had against a player that is consistently top 5 on the NA leaderboards. And no I'm not promoting a YouTube channel. Just reading the forums, I feel like there might be some interest. Please feel free to give feedback or suggestions on how I can improve.

This person bested me 4-5 games in a row. When I asked if I was making any mistakes, my opponent's reply was "no I'm just lucky". However, I will be more critical of my own gameplay.

Orgnum and Pelin were picked by my opponent just about every time. I don't know if this is some hint to a high win rate meta or not. Looking back at the example game, here are some mistakes I made and observations:
Turn 2: I'm a strong believer in that the initial turns and card draws can decide the entire game. I should have denied the Orgnum card early on Turn 2 by buying it and also Druid King Vestments. My opponent picked a strong Pelin cards on Turn 1, so the tempo of the game was already against me. This was probably the mistake that cost me the game.

Throughout the game I was going for a druid combo this approach might have been too slow.

I could've probably denied an additional 1 or 2 Orgnum cards later in the game.

My patron picks of Druid and Almalexia are basically just standard second turn player picks. Compared to the other decks, they don't have as many game winning cards for the Turn 1 player to pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N1rNkgzjRY

This particular opponent goes first like 70% of the time.

sayswhoto · March 21

Seraphayel wrote: »

I‘d say he’s decently skilled, although sometimes I really question his thought process and he makes mistakes (like all of us). To get some bigger picture of the thought process and the card values / patrons he’s mostly spot on though, so this could definitely help you.

I have seen his videos before and watched some of his more recent ones. I think he plays kind of quickly though. Months ago I played him on the NA ladder as well. Agree that he is decent.

Seraphayel wrote: »

The most important part in the first 1-2 turns is either get incredibly good cards or cards that give coins. Getting as much coins in the first round can be crucial for the later game. So if you have the choice between a card that gives you coin or one that gives you power/prestige, go for the coin unless the other card is one of the “great“ 4 coin cards.

I generally do so, but, in this case, I might have needed to buy some of the strong Pelin and Orgnum power cards.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

For example, there was a turn when you had vestments and deep wood ritual. You could have used ritual to clear some of the tavern cards and then used your coin to buy yourself a card. You could have then acquired the agent that your opponent ended up buying the next turn.

I would say missing on acquiring the agent is after the fact. At the present moment of the turn, there were high cost cards my opponent could not afford, so I wouldn't necessarily want to replace them and reveal better options. Also, the Orgnum patron power was in favor of the opponent, and the tempo of the game was already against me. I felt I needed to reverse that patron. I should've bought my card first and then use the Druid combo from Deepwoods Ritual to replace any card that I didn't want my opponent buying.

I thought Almalexia cards would be too slow at this point in the game to help with deck cycling, but I could've been wrong.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Another thing is that I think you underestimated the value of the druid agents in building for druid combos.

That could be true for this game. I just felt I needed to build a power lead as a buffer since my opponent was going to quickly ramp in power. If I had a moment where I felt the prestige rush was stagnating, then I would've bought some Druid agents.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This particular opponent goes first like 70% of the time.

If I remember, I went first twice in the four or five games played. I did try the infamous Crow+Reachmen once when I was first but still lost.

Seraphayel · March 21

sayswhoto wrote: »

Since no response so far, I will just post a game I had against a player that is consistently top 5 on the NA leaderboards. And no I'm not promoting a YouTube channel. Just reading the forums, I feel like there might be some interest. Please feel free to give feedback or suggestions on how I can improve.

This person bested me 4-5 games in a row. When I asked if I was making any mistakes, my opponent's reply was "no I'm just lucky". However, I will be more critical of my own gameplay.

Orgnum and Pelin were picked by my opponent just about every time. I don't know if this is some hint to a high win rate meta or not. Looking back at the example game, here are some mistakes I made and observations:
Turn 2: I'm a strong believer in that the initial turns and card draws can decide the entire game. I should have denied the Orgnum card early on Turn 2 by buying it and also Druid King Vestments. My opponent picked a strong Pelin cards on Turn 1, so the tempo of the game was already against me. This was probably the mistake that cost me the game.

Throughout the game I was going for a druid combo this approach might have been too slow.

I could've probably denied an additional 1 or 2 Orgnum cards later in the game.

My patron picks of Druid and Almalexia are basically just standard second turn player picks. Compared to the other decks, they don't have as many game winning cards for the Turn 1 player to pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N1rNkgzjRY

So, after watching this video, my opinion is: your biggest mistake was to play Orgnum patron when you really shouldn’t have. Especially in early turns it‘s not dramatic when the opponent flipped the patron to his favor, it costs 3 coin then and will make it impossible for them to get better tavern cards, e.g. the good power generating cards from Pelin.

You easily could’ve ignored this for 2-3 rounds and instead create Writs which you really needed to buy cards. There were rounds where you were stuck with 3-4 coins left and wasted them because you couldn’t afford buying a tavern card and already played the patron. Another thing is you ignored some very strong Pelin cards.

In the first 3-4 turns you got some very nice Druid cards and could have even gotten a Druid agent, but you started spamming Orgnum and from that point on it was a losing game for you because neither could you buy anything nor did the power generated by Orgnum help you in any way.

Just my two cents.

spartaxoxo · March 21

sayswhoto wrote: »

I would say missing on acquiring the agent is after the fact. At the present moment of the turn, there were high cost cards my opponent could not afford, so I wouldn't necessarily want to replace them and reveal better options. Also, the Orgnum patron power was in favor of the opponent, and the tempo of the game was already against me. I felt I needed to reverse that patron. I should've bought my card first and then use the Druid combo from Deepwoods Ritual to replace any card that I didn't want my opponent buying.

I thought Almalexia cards would be too slow at this point in the game to help with deck cycling, but I could've been wrong.

You could have replaced them and bought the better options yourself because you would have still had your coins. I know it sucks being behind on Orgnum but you didn't have the deck to play the Orgnum patron and needed to shore it up.

sayswhoto · March 22

Seraphayel wrote: »

So, after watching this video, my opinion is: your biggest mistake was to play Orgnum patron when you really shouldn’t have. Especially in early turns it‘s not dramatic when the opponent flipped the patron to his favor, it costs 3 coin then and will make it impossible for them to get better tavern cards, e.g. the good power generating cards from Pelin.

You easily could’ve ignored this for 2-3 rounds and instead create Writs which you really needed to buy cards. There were rounds where you were stuck with 3-4 coins left and wasted them because you couldn’t afford buying a tavern card and already played the patron. Another thing is you ignored some very strong Pelin cards.

In the first 3-4 turns you got some very nice Druid cards and could have even gotten a Druid agent, but you started spamming Orgnum and from that point on it was a losing game for you because neither could you buy anything nor did the power generated by Orgnum help you in any way.

Just my two cents.

I probably could've passed on a few Orgnum patron flips. I didn't want a bunch of Orgnum cards being generated from favored status. I don't play or play against Orgnum and Pelin that much so that's something I need to work on.

It felt like I had already lost the game very early on. I was considering the Druid agents.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You could have replaced them and bought the better options yourself because you would have still had your coins. I know it sucks being behind on Orgnum but you didn't have the deck to play the Orgnum patron and needed to shore it up.

I was trying to get the Whisperheart Totem in order to get a larger gold buy later, maybe not the best strategy for the moment. Agree, it probably could've been played out better.

Just want to thank everyone for their feedback and suggestions. The rush decks are something I need to work on. I know more could be said, but I also want to leave this thread open for other videos if someone has examples.

raguvy · March 27

I know some highly-ranked leaderboard players used to stream ToT matches on Twitch... dunno if that's still a thing.. also i found pinkApple and OldSaltySean's videos on YT really helpful