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"Defeated" in Imperial City
marcbf
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I rarely venture into the Imperial City and when I do it's usually briefly, mostly for events and to do the odd daily. Since a couple of updates ago we now get status messages both in IC and Cyrodiil. One particular in IC sits pretty poorly with me. It's the "X defeated Y" one. that message implies some form of struggle, when in 99% of the cases it's just a ganker killing another player. Is there any chance we could drop the pussyfooting and just call it what it actually is: killing? The message "X killed Y" would be much more fitting for what actually happens.
Cue the usual "if you don't like PvP then don't go to PvP areas" comments...
Cue the usual "if you don't like PvP then don't go to PvP areas" comments...
PC EU
2
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Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you dont like those messages you can just turn them off.PC/EU, StamSorc Main23 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
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Cue the usual "if you don't like PvP then don't go to PvP areas" comments...
I mean... <insert shrug emoji>
Kill feed is useful as it tells PvPers and PvErs where the action is. If you step into a district and you see your alliance members getting massacred, it's time to leave. If you see your alliance doing the killing, stick around and help score a few kills.
Also useful in Cyro as it can alert you to fights around keeps and resources, and give you a similar indication of what's occurring locally.
As the other poster said, if you don't like the kill feed, just turn it off.14 -
marcbf✭✭✭I can't see the "kill feed" being of much use in IC since it's only for the district you're currently in. No idea about Cyro. I'm also not against the feed as such, but I object to the phrasing. Again, there's usually no struggle involved in IC, hence the term "defeat" is wrong, and frankly a bit insulting. Anyway, I've said my piece. Maybe ZOS chooses to react on it, but probably not.PC EU0
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OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I gave you a good use of the kill feed in Imp City. As a PvE player, you'd benefit from paying attention to it.
The word used doesn't interest me, but fiwiw, defeated is the correct word. Doesn't matter if its a quick or drawn out battle. It's still a battle, and someone was defeated. By the dictionaryand all that:
adjective. relating to or being the loser in a contest, election, battle, etc.; overcome or vanquished
Likewise, your use of the term "killed", with the opinion that all fights in Imp or Cyro are one sided would by your logic most certainly be incorrect. There are too many drawn out battles between groups and individuals to make a "killed" under your use of the word to apply to all situations.12 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the kill feed is indeed useful to see if the district is full of people from the other alliancesmiaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.1 -
DanteTheDeviant✭✭✭There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
I think people are missing the point. OP is frustrated at the skill gap/massive learning curve that exists in the game as a barrier to entry for any form of PvP.
Just more reason we need to scale players without full sets with flat stats, scale all their gear to gold tier, and give them flat stats if they lack a mythic. Close the stat gap so it's more fair and new/casual players can enjoy the game's PvP. Do that and the PvP gamemodes won't be so dead like they currently are (Cyrodil is pretty dead too considering the capacity is 60 players per alliance when it used to be hundreds).2 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DanteTheDeviant wrote: »There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
I think people are missing the point. OP is frustrated at the skill gap/massive learning curve that exists in the game as a barrier to entry for any form of PvP.
Just more reason we need to scale players without full sets with flat stats, scale all their gear to gold tier, and give them flat stats if they lack a mythic. Close the stat gap so it's more fair and new/casual players can enjoy the game's PvP. Do that and the PvP gamemodes won't be so dead like they currently are (Cyrodil is pretty dead too considering the capacity is 60 players per alliance when it used to be hundreds).
I think the OP is more upset that the message gives the idea that they lost in a fair fight, when what they really want is
"Died when filthy, dirty ganker X jumped on me from behind"
or
"Busy minding my own business in the IC sewers, turned a corner and was squashed by a zerg"
or
"Death shouldn't count... I was handing in a quest!".20 -
marcbf✭✭✭
No, "defeated" is not fine. As I've stated several times it implies a struggle, which there usually isn't in IC.There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
Actually, people are not missing the point. I'm reasonably high in CP, I just don't like PvP. At least not in ESO and particularly in IC. But all that is beside the point. For me it's really only about the phrasing, which is really off with regard to IC. I have no beef with Cyro. I've very rarely been killed in Cyro except if I should partake in some group effort and that's how it should be. IC, on the other hand, is toxic. People are literally waiting cloaked to take out unsuspecting other players (which usually are PvE players) or even attacking them when it's plain to see the other players are there for a daily. To then give said people a sense of accomplishment by stating they defeated someone is just plainly wrong.DanteTheDeviant wrote: »There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
I think people are missing the point. OP is frustrated at the skill gap/massive learning curve that exists in the game as a barrier to entry for any form of PvP.
Just more reason we need to scale players without full sets with flat stats, scale all their gear to gold tier, and give them flat stats if they lack a mythic. Close the stat gap so it's more fair and new/casual players can enjoy the game's PvP. Do that and the PvP gamemodes won't be so dead like they currently are (Cyrodil is pretty dead too considering the capacity is 60 players per alliance when it used to be hundreds).PC EU2 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DanteTheDeviant wrote: »
Hm, interesting take. Imo OP was more about "ganking/stealthing isn't a viable tactic and I don't accept to be defeated by players using this style".
But yeah, all of that was most probably started after another player showed OP the ropes.
Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.4 -
BetweenMidgets✭✭✭✭✭What about when it IS a struggle? Should the verbiage change if the fight goes over X seconds / minutes?
Even if it was a ganker, did they defeat the person? Yes, they actually did. The word itself doesn't imply anything, that is you making the implication.PC-NA9 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree, defeated is incorrect.
Defeated would be when you are fighting and lose the combat, but if you are killing a mob to complete a daily quest and a ganker one shots you, then you are not defeated since you weren't participating in any type of fight, you just got ganked.
You defeat a boss when you fight against it and win, but you don't defeat an NPC when you use the Blade of Woe in stealth from behind them, you just kill them.
Edited by Dragonnord on March 23, 2024 12:58PM3 -
loosej✭✭✭✭✭I'd go one step further and say it's silly to call Imperial City PvP in the first place. Usually there's a couple people trying to do the daily quests, and some nightblades trying to score an easy kill while the first group is fighting a group of monsters. If that's your idea of fun then by all means, enjoy yourself. But calling it PvP is a bit cheap in my opinion.Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup (source: despair.com)4 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd go one step further and say it's silly to call Imperial City PvP in the first place. Usually there's a couple people trying to do the daily quests, and some nightblades trying to score an easy kill while the first group is fighting a group of monsters. If that's your idea of fun then by all means, enjoy yourself. But calling it PvP is a bit cheap in my opinion.
Agree.
IC should be called:
PvQ = Players vs. Questers
GvQ = Gankers vs. Questers
TvQ = Tryhards vs. Questers
ZvQ = Zergs vs. Questers
But not a PvP zone, since it's definitely not.
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OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have to fight other players to take districts. It's PvP and PvE. A lot of both are involved. Just because you choose to only experience one aspect of Imp City, doesn't mean the other aspect doesn't exist.
Most PvP guilds are always welcoming of new recruits. Please join one, even for a week, and experience the PvP side of the city before declaring it simply doesn't exist.6 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You have to fight other players to take districts.
No you don't, you just need to kill some guards protecting flags. You have to fight or kill ZERO players to take a district.
In fact, different than Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds, you don't need to fight or kill players AT ALL in Imperial City to do anything. Every single thing that you can do or complete there doesn't require you to engage other players.
Edited by Dragonnord on March 23, 2024 1:47PM7 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dragonnord wrote: »
Which will cause other alliances members to come and take the district from you. You are competing with other alliances players to take the districts. You will have to fight other players if you want to keep and continue taking the districts for your own alliance.5 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
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No, "defeated" is not fine. As I've stated several times it implies a struggle, which there usually isn't in IC.There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
Actually, people are not missing the point. I'm reasonably high in CP, I just don't like PvP. At least not in ESO and particularly in IC. But all that is beside the point. For me it's really only about the phrasing, which is really off with regard to IC. I have no beef with Cyro. I've very rarely been killed in Cyro except if I should partake in some group effort and that's how it should be. IC, on the other hand, is toxic. People are literally waiting cloaked to take out unsuspecting other players (which usually are PvE players) or even attacking them when it's plain to see the other players are there for a daily. To then give said people a sense of accomplishment by stating they defeated someone is just plainly wrong.DanteTheDeviant wrote: »There's likely some reason for not using the word "kill". Defeated is fine.
I think people are missing the point. OP is frustrated at the skill gap/massive learning curve that exists in the game as a barrier to entry for any form of PvP.
Just more reason we need to scale players without full sets with flat stats, scale all their gear to gold tier, and give them flat stats if they lack a mythic. Close the stat gap so it's more fair and new/casual players can enjoy the game's PvP. Do that and the PvP gamemodes won't be so dead like they currently are (Cyrodil is pretty dead too considering the capacity is 60 players per alliance when it used to be hundreds).
Not their fault you didn't fight back.
And you missed my point. They're not going to use the word kill. It's a bit triggering to some, including important people in the approval department. And on top of it, death is final, defeat is not.
Deafeated is fine. They're going to get a sense of accomplishment regardless.11 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dragonnord wrote: »
Which will cause other alliances members to come and take the district from you. You are competing with other alliances players to take the districts. You will have to fight other players if you want to keep and continue taking the districts for your own alliance.
Or you can just wait till they leave the district and take it back killing the guards (not players) again.
Nodoby is there all the time taking districts like it happens in Cyro with groups taking keeps.
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Jack-0✭✭✭✭✭I mean technically, you don’t have to pvp to take a keep or outpost or resource in Cyrodiil. It’s a silly argument, anyway, as both are zones with pvp rulesets, therefore they are pvp areas.
And there’s nothing wrong with the word defeat here. Of all the things that need fixing in this game of ours, it sure as hell isn’t one word in a brief utility message that you can switch off if you don’t like it.
Also, it sounds like you might want to try blocking when being attacked by some stealthy ***, it does wonders for not dying to them.8 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean technically, you don’t have to pvp to take a keep or outpost or resource in Cyrodiil. It’s a silly argument, anyway, as both are zones with pvp rulesets, therefore they are pvp areas.
And there’s nothing wrong with the word defeat here. Of all the things that need fixing in this game of ours, it sure as hell isn’t one word in a brief utility message that you can switch off if you don’t like it.
Also, it sounds like you might want to try blocking when being attacked by some stealthy ***, it does wonders for not dying to them.
how do you block an attack that you can't see coming??
when someone gets killed by a ganker they usually can't respond at all. it's gank and then dead.miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.1 -
Ezhh✭✭✭✭✭
✭How likely you are to die to a ganker, sometimes how likely you are to even be attacked by one, can depend on such tiny things as your total hp. If you do not want to get one shot, a good starting point is to not look like a squishy quester. Have hp food running. Maybe run a set that adds a bunch of hp too (it doesn't need to be golded or even anything meta - it's about appearance). And run some heavy and/or impen pieces for if you do get hit.
Also check what defensive buffs you have available. Keep them up at all times. Not much screams "I am a target" quite so loudly as a combo of low hp and never having your buffs up.
If those horrible NBs are just looking for easy kills like so many people seem to think, deter them. Do not look like an easy kill.Edited by Ezhh on March 23, 2024 4:23PM3 -
IsharaMeradin✭✭✭✭✭Since they already track the hits...
If both parties manage to hit each other, use defeated.
If only one party hits the other, use eliminated.
But this is ZOS' game. They do what they want, and we play it or not.PC-NA / PC-EUID @IsharaMeradin
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Arylina Loreal - High Elf Sorcerer
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Natash af-Ishara - Redguard Warden
Shallan Radiant Veil - Dark Elf Arcanist0 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭IsharaMeradin wrote: »Since they already track the hits...
If both parties manage to hit each other, use defeated.
If only one party hits the other, use eliminated.
But this is ZOS' game. They do what they want, and we play it or not.
Most people that see the kill feed are PvPers, and I'm positive most PvPers don't care what terminology is used in the kill feed, just that it's there and doing its job. Which it is.5 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't see the point in distinguishing how a player was killed. "Defeated" does the job of explaining what's going on- as far as I'm concerned, the kill feed is doing the job it's meant to do, and I could care less how it's phrased. It tells me where to find my enemy, and when to watch my back. That's all I need for it to be effective.PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭defeat can also mean 'cause to fail' and dying is failing almost all the time. When trying to get to a battle in Cyrodill you can be defeated by a cliff.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Semantics. People react in very different ways to words. Please don't trash the OP's feelings.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's just another double standard. The chat box reads like this:
[Local area] Player X defeated Jaraal. (alliance colored names in white text)
[Personal message] You were killed by Player X. (Player name in alliance color in red text)
Edited by Jaraal on March 24, 2024 8:09PM3 -
LadyLavina✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol no, defeated is just fine as it is.
I understand the rage "but i didn't even get to fight, i got wrecked. It wasn't a proper fight" or some variation,
But I mean, respectfully, whether it says killed or defeated,
Those people are still defeated
PC - NA @LadyLavina 1800+ CP PvP Tank and PvP Healer3