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For years I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO. Results might surprise ZOS
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Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭At least ESO characters can move at a decent speed, when I switch to a game like FO4/76 or RDR online it is like moving in slow motion.1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Of course ESO's graphics, models, and animations could stand to be improved, as there is always room for improvement.
But it seems to me that gamers overlook less-than-perfect graphics if they enjoy a game. They might wish that certain things about a game were "better," but they are willing to live with the game as it is because they like playing it. If they "rage quit" a game over some issue that bugs them too much to put up with, in my experience it probably won't be over the graphics, but over something much more "game-breaking" than that.
If you look around at other popular single-player games and MMOs, many of them have extremely cartoonish graphics, as well as heavily "stylized" graphics where some portion of the body (as well as weapons) are much larger than they should be in a real world, or other character or environmental features which are outlandish or unrealistic. Yet a lot of gamers still play those games and have fun doing so, rather than rage-quitting those games because the graphics aren't "photorealistic enough."
That doesn't mean everyone will enjoy those games, because each gamer has certain types of games that appeal to them the most, as well as personal tastes and preferences regarding graphics and sounds. So just because a lot of people are willing to enjoy some MMO that has cartoonish graphics, that doesn't mean that everyone will happily overlook those graphics. But usually there are other reasons why those games don't appeal to everyone who tries them out. That is, I think graphics might prevent someone from trying out a game if the graphics are simply too much of a turn-off for someone, but if they do try the game and find out that they have fun playing it, I think they'll usually be willing to overlook the graphics and just have fun.
In my opinion, there are other issues in the game which should take priority over graphical improvements. I mean, graphical improvements would be nice, especially if someone's computer or console can handle them. (I keep the settings turned down on my potato, for performance reasons-- not just in ESO, but in other TES games as well.) Slapping better graphics on the game isn't going to make everyone happy if ESO's "real" problems don't get fixed first, and it's the "real" problems which I think are much more likely to drive someone to "rage quit" a game (be it ESO or anything else).I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!7 -
Nharimlur_Finor✭✭✭✭✭What isn't obvious here is ZOS' own research.
You'd have to assume that these problems have been assessed and that ZOS are managing any risks raised by those assessments. The reality may be that only 1 in 100000 people even notice the animations as being 'inferior'.
5 -
fizzylu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@TaSheen
To be clear, I was never in this thread saying that I think the game should change a bunch of things. I do not trust Zenimax to handle stuff like that because they clearly do not trust, nor value, the judgment of their players feedback and opinions on new features+changes.... while also showing that they are out of touch with their game, how it works, and what a "quality" change/improvement actually is. I'm just also aware of the games weaknesses, including the fact that Zenimax very rarely applies player feedback to new features/changes, and how they can turn away new (and even existing) players.... which is what this thread is about.
2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@TaSheen
To be clear, I was never in this thread saying that I think the game should change a bunch of things. I do not trust Zenimax to handle stuff like that because they clearly do not trust, nor value, the judgment of their players feedback and opinions on new features+changes.... while also showing that they are out of touch with their game, how it works, and what a "quality" change/improvement actually is. I'm just also aware of the games weaknesses, including the fact that Zenimax very rarely applies player feedback to new features/changes, and how they can turn away new (and even existing) players.... which is what this thread is about.
No, I understand that. It's just that your comment IS the "elephant in the room" - because the chances of things changing in the "right" way are pretty slim.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....4 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let me start off by saying that I'm a big ESO fan. Despite its issues, I think it's the best MMORPG Sandbox out there. I've played it since beta on PC, and moved to Xbox on console release. There are not many games that can compete with ESO but the player base is still far from where it should be, considering how massive the game is. So of course, because of how much I like the game, I always try to get my friends or relatives to play it. The results are not surprising to me, but might be surprising to ZOS because at least from my experience, it shows the money is put into the wrong place. I'll put it in bullet points to make it easy to digest, with the most mentioned to the least mentioned.
It's important to note that ALL of the people I asked showed interest in trying the game and did give it a shot.
Reasons why the people I ask didn't stay with the game for long or don't want to return:The animations are awful, especially the running animation
Yep! This is the number one reason. This was mentioned by almost every single person that tried the game. You might think that' its a non-issue, but you' be surprised how many people don't want to play ESO just because they can't stand looking at their character run. It's especially stark when you come right away from a different game. There's a very good reason companies focus now on the presentation of the playable character. I think just redoing some major animations that players spend looking at 90% of their play time, such as walking or running, would make a massive difference and YES it would bring some people to the game.The graphics are bad
2nd most mentioned reason. I think It's a pretty MMORPG, but I agree some things such as lighting can be improved. I believe most of the comments about graphics were a result of bad animations though. World of Warcraft has fantastic animations and that's what makes it look "nicer" compared to ESO. Anyway, whether you like it or not, visual presentation is what makes people try the game, and content is what makes them stick around.Imperial City needs a refresh, Cyrodil needs a refresh
This comes from the PVP players that quit, or PVP-focused players in general and that player base is massive in any game that respects PVP. Cyrodil is boring, There's no attachment to castles. It's just constant running from castle to castle without caring if you'll lose it or not. Black Desert Online has much more interesting systems that keeps players involved. Imperial City is great but depressing and needs a rework. Arenas are great, but matchmaking is awful. People sometimes wait few hours for a single match. Some love for PVP would bring a lot of players.Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!
Ok, now this is a massive issue and I share that view. The game has so much PVE content (and most of it behind a paywall) that new players are right away overwhelmed. And you know what? Adding even more zones and quests is ZOS's absolute focus. It honestly scares every single person I talked with. People are mind-blown that this is where most of the money goes. And it doesn't help that the zones are extremely boring because of lack of challenge. You do this super long questline to defeat a boss that dies from a slap in the face. Many suggested VETERAN VERSION OF ZONES. The same zone, veteran server, much harder and requires a group like in a dungeon, but rewards are of much much better quality. This would make it exciting to explore a new zone in a group.In the 1st hour of gameplay i don't have space in my inventory...This game is a chore! Oh wait.. I have to buy a subscription
We know it won't go away, but new players being greeted with inventory management within the 1st hour of the game is not great. It really discourages people from continuing before they discover what the game really is.
Conclusion:
So here it is. I know that this will not align with the opinions of the majority on these forums. You are on these forums because for the most part I assume you like and play the game. The opinions I've listed were gathered over the years by me from people who quit the game or gave up after a short run. I agree with most of it and it made me realize that some general improvements to the game's presentation and mechanics would bring much more players than adding another 100 quests. There was not a single person who complained that they don't play ESO because there's not enough content. It's the opposite. It's too much.
Anyway, I don't want to argue on whether this is right or wrong. I simply gathered some opinions directly and wanted to share my findings. I hope this will be useful to ZOS and they'll consider it, when planning the future of ESO.
Your first few "complaints" are by those who will likely not be happy with much of anything for long. No MMO will be perfect and graphics/gameplay will never meet that kind of players needs for long, most likely.
The "too much to do" is a silly argument. You are not compelled to do all the quests. Just do the ones you like. I am not raising many alts lately, other than and Arcanist on each of my platforms (PC-NA/EU and PS5-NA/EU) and a Warden on PS5-EU because I didn't have one there. Lots of repetition with that (probably 60+ characters overall) and I have only done a few things for all the characters. I don't even have a "have done all quests" on any main. though I am working on Caldwell's sliver now on PC-NA now. (Over 10 years total playing, 6+ on the PC, with a 1 year or so break.)
The only area I do most on is Auridon main quest and enough of the Psijic order to get those things in the real world to collect. I also tend to do the Alik'r Main Quest line, but nothing else. I am trying to work through the other areas as well but only Wrothgar got a primary focus because of the "free" pet advertised now.
Thus the "too much content" is not relevant. Would they prefer a game where it ran out? Really?As a "new player" on a second account, what made me stop playing it was the lack of inventory space. I understand ZOS needs something to attract players to pay for ESO+. But it's crazy how fast 60 slots fill up.
Someone suggested upthread to just not pick up anything you don't need and to sell everything to merchants. I don't think a game is going to attract new players if they can't harvest resources to craft gear, or when they open some containers there are 6-7 items that fill an already busting inventory. You can just run around doing quests and levelling up and it doesn't take long to fill those 60 slots. Once you have 215 slots (if you're willing to buy the inventory pets from the crown store), maybe it's manageable. But not without a lot of fiddling around.
If I were ZOS, I'd provide a limited craft bag (can carry 50 of each ingredient or something like that) for free, and I'd add more bags to ESO+. Furniture bag, potions bag, etc.
But yeah, until something changes with inventory management for non-ESO+, my second account will collect dust.
I could not play without ESO+. I even paid for it both on PC and PS5 so I could use both. (I love playing on my 70 inch TV!) And that is even with the flaws and shortcomings of console!
Storage space is still tight! I need a furnishing bag/storage area and a survey bag!
Another reply noted that requiring repeated mount training from default is really annoying. Along with wayshrines and skyshards. (Well, you can pay Crowns, ultimately real money, for the latter, but that is horrid as well.) Even WoW is supposedly adding the equivalent of Wayshrines across alts. Why can't we do that here? Riding to each wayshrine on each alt is not value adding in the slightest.PC
PS4/PS53 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What isn't obvious here is ZOS' own research.
You'd have to assume that these problems have been assessed and that ZOS are managing any risks raised by those assessments. The reality may be that only 1 in 100000 people even notice the animations as being 'inferior'.
I think they are simply fine with ESO's reputation - the fact that it's never recommended when people ask for a good MMO to play - because it's kept afloat by loyal-to-a-fault TES fans (hi!) and their audacious cash shop. You can see that they know visuals and character customization is everything because that's where they put most of their resources. They just don't have to bother making the base game as appealing as the cash shop crap because hey, it's TES.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.2 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭And while some are okay with the game staying just as it is, some people do want to see ESO get those kinds of changes/improvements if Zenimax actually does them right.
And that is the elephant in the room. Anyone who's been here for years has seen what happens when things get "modernized"....
But you don't notice animations, so.....Edited by Pelanora on March 17, 2024 3:40AM2 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Which animations are inferior? I mean, I'm pretty sure we have the best teabag animation in the gaming universe at large. It's very flexible, easy to spam, gets the point across quickly. Masters of the teabagging craft can even enhance the experience of others by tapping our little rhythms and such after a kill. Truly excellent.2 -
GooGa592✭✭✭✭✭
✭silky_soft wrote: »Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.
I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.
Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.
Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.
They've been working on a new game with a new IP for several years now. Not really a secret, former Loremaster Leamon Tuttle moved to that project.
I don't believe anything from ZOS anymore without corroborating evidence. I need proof, not words with no evidence after 10 years in ESO as a PvP player.2 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭silky_soft wrote: »Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.
I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.
Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.
Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.
They've been working on a new game with a new IP for several years now. Not really a secret, former Loremaster Leamon Tuttle moved to that project.
I don't believe anything from ZOS anymore without corroborating evidence. I need proof, not words with no evidence after 10 years in ESO as a PvP player.
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
the evidence is there ^Edited by LunaFlora on March 17, 2024 7:36PMmiaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation and PC EU.
LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
LunaFloraBlossom on pc.2 -
Thormar✭✭✭✭
Below is a video in which the Creative Director of the project, Ben Jones, spends some 45 minutes shedding a little bit of light on the project. He heads a team of 200. Video was released about a year ago.I don't believe anything from ZOS anymore without corroborating evidence. I need proof, not words with no evidence after 10 years in ESO as a PvP player.
https://youtu.be/6djsOpld1tcov
PC - NA. Aldmeri Dominion2 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!
Ok, now this is a massive issue and I share that view. The game has so much PVE content (and most of it behind a paywall) that new players are right away overwhelmed. And you know what? Adding even more zones and quests is ZOS's absolute focus. It honestly scares every single person I talked with. People are mind-blown that this is where most of the money goes. And it doesn't help that the zones are extremely boring because of lack of challenge. You do this super long questline to defeat a boss that dies from a slap in the face. Many suggested VETERAN VERSION OF ZONES. The same zone, veteran server, much harder and requires a group like in a dungeon, but rewards are of much much better quality. This would make it exciting to explore a new zone in a group.
The oddest reason I have ever seen for not playing a game is that the devs add more content to keep us interested in the game.
Games die because the devs stop adding new zones and content to the game. Just look at SWTOR which has been a joke for years because of the limited content they have added. The biggest declines happened when they stopped making new zones and put quests into instances.
Even then, adding more zones and quests is not Zenimax's absolute focus. While they have had limited success they have been trying to improve the performance of the game and add QoL features.
Overall, I do get it. I have had friends that could not adjust to a different combat design when they were used to the antiquated slow gameplay we have in other games such as WOW and FF. That is fine since it is more interesting to have games do different things since we do not all like the same thing.
I think there's a little misunderstanding there about PVE content. What I'm trying to say is that focusing on adding new quests and zones is probably not the best way to attract new players or even bring the veterans back. At least in my group, nobody cares about new zones other than for grinding new meta sets. It feels more like a chore than fun experience. If we'd get a veteran version of these zones, where exploring together would be necessary due to difficulty, I'm sure that would change.
As for new players I know who stick around for longer - none completed even 1/4th of the zones. There's abundance of content - which is good.
The game absolutely needs a consistent stream of updates, but it feels like only one aspect of it gets all the attention while the rest is completely neglected.
I think the problem with ZOS is that if they can't put a pricetag on the feature, they won't consider it at all. They don't think in terms of indirect sales and interest a new non-purchasable feature can generate.
1 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭"I think the problem with ZOS is that if they can't put a pricetag on the feature, they won't consider it at all. They don't think in terms of indirect sales and interest a new non-purchasable feature can generate."
Then the data they have isn't sufficiently long term. They should track new players/subs for new content and see how how they last, and compare it to earnings over time data from longer term players.
And if they have done that, and it's really not the longer term players who generate the income versus new sales, well then, we will never get a base game update lol.
But i would just compare new sales on their dlc with, i dunno, the biggest selling game of 2023, and just ask why maybe there is such a difference in sales....Edited by Pelanora on March 18, 2024 6:56PM0 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Let me start off by saying that I'm a big ESO fan. Despite its issues, I think it's the best MMORPG Sandbox out there. I've played it since beta on PC, and moved to Xbox on console release. There are not many games that can compete with ESO but the player base is still far from where it should be, considering how massive the game is. So of course, because of how much I like the game, I always try to get my friends or relatives to play it. The results are not surprising to me, but might be surprising to ZOS because at least from my experience, it shows the money is put into the wrong place. I'll put it in bullet points to make it easy to digest, with the most mentioned to the least mentioned.
It's important to note that ALL of the people I asked showed interest in trying the game and did give it a shot.
Reasons why the people I ask didn't stay with the game for long or don't want to return:The animations are awful, especially the running animation
Yep! This is the number one reason. This was mentioned by almost every single person that tried the game. You might think that' its a non-issue, but you' be surprised how many people don't want to play ESO just because they can't stand looking at their character run. It's especially stark when you come right away from a different game. There's a very good reason companies focus now on the presentation of the playable character. I think just redoing some major animations that players spend looking at 90% of their play time, such as walking or running, would make a massive difference and YES it would bring some people to the game.The graphics are bad
2nd most mentioned reason. I think It's a pretty MMORPG, but I agree some things such as lighting can be improved. I believe most of the comments about graphics were a result of bad animations though. World of Warcraft has fantastic animations and that's what makes it look "nicer" compared to ESO. Anyway, whether you like it or not, visual presentation is what makes people try the game, and content is what makes them stick around.Imperial City needs a refresh, Cyrodil needs a refresh
This comes from the PVP players that quit, or PVP-focused players in general and that player base is massive in any game that respects PVP. Cyrodil is boring, There's no attachment to castles. It's just constant running from castle to castle without caring if you'll lose it or not. Black Desert Online has much more interesting systems that keeps players involved. Imperial City is great but depressing and needs a rework. Arenas are great, but matchmaking is awful. People sometimes wait few hours for a single match. Some love for PVP would bring a lot of players.Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!
Ok, now this is a massive issue and I share that view. The game has so much PVE content (and most of it behind a paywall) that new players are right away overwhelmed. And you know what? Adding even more zones and quests is ZOS's absolute focus. It honestly scares every single person I talked with. People are mind-blown that this is where most of the money goes. And it doesn't help that the zones are extremely boring because of lack of challenge. You do this super long questline to defeat a boss that dies from a slap in the face. Many suggested VETERAN VERSION OF ZONES. The same zone, veteran server, much harder and requires a group like in a dungeon, but rewards are of much much better quality. This would make it exciting to explore a new zone in a group.In the 1st hour of gameplay i don't have space in my inventory...This game is a chore! Oh wait.. I have to buy a subscription
We know it won't go away, but new players being greeted with inventory management within the 1st hour of the game is not great. It really discourages people from continuing before they discover what the game really is.
Conclusion:
So here it is. I know that this will not align with the opinions of the majority on these forums. You are on these forums because for the most part I assume you like and play the game. The opinions I've listed were gathered over the years by me from people who quit the game or gave up after a short run. I agree with most of it and it made me realize that some general improvements to the game's presentation and mechanics would bring much more players than adding another 100 quests. There was not a single person who complained that they don't play ESO because there's not enough content. It's the opposite. It's too much.
Anyway, I don't want to argue on whether this is right or wrong. I simply gathered some opinions directly and wanted to share my findings. I hope this will be useful to ZOS and they'll consider it, when planning the future of ESO.
Your first few "complaints" are by those who will likely not be happy with much of anything for long. No MMO will be perfect and graphics/gameplay will never meet that kind of players needs for long, most likely.
The "too much to do" is a silly argument. You are not compelled to do all the quests. Just do the ones you like. I am not raising many alts lately, other than and Arcanist on each of my platforms (PC-NA/EU and PS5-NA/EU) and a Warden on PS5-EU because I didn't have one there. Lots of repetition with that (probably 60+ characters overall) and I have only done a few things for all the characters. I don't even have a "have done all quests" on any main. though I am working on Caldwell's sliver now on PC-NA now. (Over 10 years total playing, 6+ on the PC, with a 1 year or so break.)
The only area I do most on is Auridon main quest and enough of the Psijic order to get those things in the real world to collect. I also tend to do the Alik'r Main Quest line, but nothing else. I am trying to work through the other areas as well but only Wrothgar got a primary focus because of the "free" pet advertised now.
Thus the "too much content" is not relevant. Would they prefer a game where it ran out? Really?As a "new player" on a second account, what made me stop playing it was the lack of inventory space. I understand ZOS needs something to attract players to pay for ESO+. But it's crazy how fast 60 slots fill up.
Someone suggested upthread to just not pick up anything you don't need and to sell everything to merchants. I don't think a game is going to attract new players if they can't harvest resources to craft gear, or when they open some containers there are 6-7 items that fill an already busting inventory. You can just run around doing quests and levelling up and it doesn't take long to fill those 60 slots. Once you have 215 slots (if you're willing to buy the inventory pets from the crown store), maybe it's manageable. But not without a lot of fiddling around.
If I were ZOS, I'd provide a limited craft bag (can carry 50 of each ingredient or something like that) for free, and I'd add more bags to ESO+. Furniture bag, potions bag, etc.
But yeah, until something changes with inventory management for non-ESO+, my second account will collect dust.
I could not play without ESO+. I even paid for it both on PC and PS5 so I could use both. (I love playing on my 70 inch TV!) And that is even with the flaws and shortcomings of console!
Storage space is still tight! I need a furnishing bag/storage area and a survey bag!
Another reply noted that requiring repeated mount training from default is really annoying. Along with wayshrines and skyshards. (Well, you can pay Crowns, ultimately real money, for the latter, but that is horrid as well.) Even WoW is supposedly adding the equivalent of Wayshrines across alts. Why can't we do that here? Riding to each wayshrine on each alt is not value adding in the slightest.
You are addressing the feedback like it's my suggestion or something and that "argument is silly". This makes no sense at all. I simply passed what people I talked with and I agree with most of it. The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result. Now reasons for this can be many, but surely it's not lack of quests and zones.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.
Where is the data to back this up?PCNA3 -
lasertooth✭✭✭✭✭I’m a longtime Xbox/na player and I primarily focus on Housing in the game. I’ve tried to get many friends interested in the game, and none of them have stayed. Here are the reasons they don’t like the game:
1.) The horse graphics/mechanics are awful. Go play Red Dead Redemption 2 and then come back to ESO. It’s painful.
2.) Housing is “end game” and it’s too expensive. Even with joining a guild, and getting lots of help, it’s impossible to enjoy housing without having millions of gold at your disposal. Compared to how accessible Housing is in other Bethesda games like Fallout76, housing in ESO seems unobtainable and impossible for new players to enjoy.
3.) Lack of outfits and agreeable hairstyles. The hair options in this game is awful. There aren’t enough “casual” outfits options.
Edited by lasertooth on March 18, 2024 7:11PMLasertooth
GM of ESO Grand Designs, Grand Designs Too, and Grand Designs Trinity
Xbox/NA4 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Let me start off by saying that I'm a big ESO fan. Despite its issues, I think it's the best MMORPG Sandbox out there. I've played it since beta on PC, and moved to Xbox on console release. There are not many games that can compete with ESO but the player base is still far from where it should be, considering how massive the game is. So of course, because of how much I like the game, I always try to get my friends or relatives to play it. The results are not surprising to me, but might be surprising to ZOS because at least from my experience, it shows the money is put into the wrong place. I'll put it in bullet points to make it easy to digest, with the most mentioned to the least mentioned.
It's important to note that ALL of the people I asked showed interest in trying the game and did give it a shot.
Reasons why the people I ask didn't stay with the game for long or don't want to return:The animations are awful, especially the running animation
Yep! This is the number one reason. This was mentioned by almost every single person that tried the game. You might think that' its a non-issue, but you' be surprised how many people don't want to play ESO just because they can't stand looking at their character run. It's especially stark when you come right away from a different game. There's a very good reason companies focus now on the presentation of the playable character. I think just redoing some major animations that players spend looking at 90% of their play time, such as walking or running, would make a massive difference and YES it would bring some people to the game.The graphics are bad
2nd most mentioned reason. I think It's a pretty MMORPG, but I agree some things such as lighting can be improved. I believe most of the comments about graphics were a result of bad animations though. World of Warcraft has fantastic animations and that's what makes it look "nicer" compared to ESO. Anyway, whether you like it or not, visual presentation is what makes people try the game, and content is what makes them stick around.Imperial City needs a refresh, Cyrodil needs a refresh
This comes from the PVP players that quit, or PVP-focused players in general and that player base is massive in any game that respects PVP. Cyrodil is boring, There's no attachment to castles. It's just constant running from castle to castle without caring if you'll lose it or not. Black Desert Online has much more interesting systems that keeps players involved. Imperial City is great but depressing and needs a rework. Arenas are great, but matchmaking is awful. People sometimes wait few hours for a single match. Some love for PVP would bring a lot of players.Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!
Ok, now this is a massive issue and I share that view. The game has so much PVE content (and most of it behind a paywall) that new players are right away overwhelmed. And you know what? Adding even more zones and quests is ZOS's absolute focus. It honestly scares every single person I talked with. People are mind-blown that this is where most of the money goes. And it doesn't help that the zones are extremely boring because of lack of challenge. You do this super long questline to defeat a boss that dies from a slap in the face. Many suggested VETERAN VERSION OF ZONES. The same zone, veteran server, much harder and requires a group like in a dungeon, but rewards are of much much better quality. This would make it exciting to explore a new zone in a group.In the 1st hour of gameplay i don't have space in my inventory...This game is a chore! Oh wait.. I have to buy a subscription
We know it won't go away, but new players being greeted with inventory management within the 1st hour of the game is not great. It really discourages people from continuing before they discover what the game really is.
Conclusion:
So here it is. I know that this will not align with the opinions of the majority on these forums. You are on these forums because for the most part I assume you like and play the game. The opinions I've listed were gathered over the years by me from people who quit the game or gave up after a short run. I agree with most of it and it made me realize that some general improvements to the game's presentation and mechanics would bring much more players than adding another 100 quests. There was not a single person who complained that they don't play ESO because there's not enough content. It's the opposite. It's too much.
Anyway, I don't want to argue on whether this is right or wrong. I simply gathered some opinions directly and wanted to share my findings. I hope this will be useful to ZOS and they'll consider it, when planning the future of ESO.
Your first few "complaints" are by those who will likely not be happy with much of anything for long. No MMO will be perfect and graphics/gameplay will never meet that kind of players needs for long, most likely.
The "too much to do" is a silly argument. You are not compelled to do all the quests. Just do the ones you like. I am not raising many alts lately, other than and Arcanist on each of my platforms (PC-NA/EU and PS5-NA/EU) and a Warden on PS5-EU because I didn't have one there. Lots of repetition with that (probably 60+ characters overall) and I have only done a few things for all the characters. I don't even have a "have done all quests" on any main. though I am working on Caldwell's sliver now on PC-NA now. (Over 10 years total playing, 6+ on the PC, with a 1 year or so break.)
The only area I do most on is Auridon main quest and enough of the Psijic order to get those things in the real world to collect. I also tend to do the Alik'r Main Quest line, but nothing else. I am trying to work through the other areas as well but only Wrothgar got a primary focus because of the "free" pet advertised now.
Thus the "too much content" is not relevant. Would they prefer a game where it ran out? Really?As a "new player" on a second account, what made me stop playing it was the lack of inventory space. I understand ZOS needs something to attract players to pay for ESO+. But it's crazy how fast 60 slots fill up.
Someone suggested upthread to just not pick up anything you don't need and to sell everything to merchants. I don't think a game is going to attract new players if they can't harvest resources to craft gear, or when they open some containers there are 6-7 items that fill an already busting inventory. You can just run around doing quests and levelling up and it doesn't take long to fill those 60 slots. Once you have 215 slots (if you're willing to buy the inventory pets from the crown store), maybe it's manageable. But not without a lot of fiddling around.
If I were ZOS, I'd provide a limited craft bag (can carry 50 of each ingredient or something like that) for free, and I'd add more bags to ESO+. Furniture bag, potions bag, etc.
But yeah, until something changes with inventory management for non-ESO+, my second account will collect dust.
I could not play without ESO+. I even paid for it both on PC and PS5 so I could use both. (I love playing on my 70 inch TV!) And that is even with the flaws and shortcomings of console!
Storage space is still tight! I need a furnishing bag/storage area and a survey bag!
Another reply noted that requiring repeated mount training from default is really annoying. Along with wayshrines and skyshards. (Well, you can pay Crowns, ultimately real money, for the latter, but that is horrid as well.) Even WoW is supposedly adding the equivalent of Wayshrines across alts. Why can't we do that here? Riding to each wayshrine on each alt is not value adding in the slightest.
“…and only few thousand are left playing….”
😂
6 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.
Where is the data to back this up?Elvenheart wrote: »
😂
[/quote]
https://mmo-population.com/Edited by Pixiepumpkin on March 18, 2024 8:09PM"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
erdYrrson✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.
Where is the data to back this up?Elvenheart wrote: »
😂
https://mmo-population.com/ [/quote]
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8008510/#Comment_8008510Edited by erdYrrson on March 18, 2024 8:12PM1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭https://mmo-population.com/about
"Of course the data is not extremely accurate, or in many cases, accurate at all."PCNA3 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭https://mmo-population.com/about/
"So, we do it based on reddit subscriber information. We track the current subscribers, active users and history of both. This helps you to choose an MMO that has the required "activity" you'd like to see, or perhaps you are just interested."
"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reddit subscriber information is not complete by any means, any more than Steam numbers are.PCNA3 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.
Where is the data to back this up?Elvenheart wrote: »
😂
https://mmo-population.com/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8008510/#Comment_8008510[/quote]
How interesting…even though the data may not be accurate, it says that ESO has over 200,000 players on a day. This is much larger than “only a few thousand left playing” so still…😂3 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It helps to illustrate player engagement.
So does twitch and ESO has extremely low twitch engagement.
For a game that is going as good as you think it is, the public engagement...almost universally....does not correlate with your assertions.
"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elvenheart wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The result is that tens of millions of players tried the game, and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently, but that number seems bloated). That's a pretty bad result.
Where is the data to back this up?Elvenheart wrote: »
😂
https://mmo-population.com/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8008510/#Comment_8008510Elvenheart wrote: »How interesting…even though the data may not be accurate, it says that ESO has over 200,000 players on a day. This is much larger than “only a few thousand left playing” so still…😂
And you keep quoting that person out of context. That, is literally called propaganda.
This is what they said
"and only few thousand are left playing, probably somewhere at around 1-2% of total accounts (24 million subscribed, and around 200k returning apparently,"Edited by Pixiepumpkin on March 18, 2024 8:35PM"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Twitch is not an indicator either. I doubt the majority just sits and watches others play all day instead of playing themselves.PCNA3 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Twitch is not an indicator either. I doubt the majority just sits and watches others play all day instead of playing themselves.
Which is not the case for literally every other game out there, making ESO a complete outlier.
Something tells me that ESO is not an outlier though, no rather it just does not have strong appeal to the gaming player base at large."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes4 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also, when considering the accuracy of mmo-population.com, one should consider their assertion that Baldur’s Gate III is the number one MMO. If you Google “Is Baldur’s Gate III an MMO?” you might be surprised at the results. 🤣4 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Matt Firor also said ESO is not an MMORPG. 🤣"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1