Did You Know | ESO has a NEVER CHANGE Policy

Jaraal · March 2024

StihlReign wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Why do you think they should update this policy?

PTS

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

did you know ESO has a Never Change Policy?

You make it sound like this is a bad thing.

StihlReign wrote: »

Perhaps we'd do better asking Zos to re-look at the policy, vs. making any changes to art assets once they're live.

The way it works now is fine. I still use some of the original styles in some of my character outfits.

I wonder how many (tens of? Hundreds of?) thousands of dollars players have spent on the original concept intended by the Gloambound weapons style? It definitely adds a monetary value to "...we no longer change live assets because players are used to the way the game and their characters look, and that is more important than what WE think." Far more expensive than changing the 'free with the base game' female Redguard style.

Definitely a 180 from the original policy. And yet, not a peep about why things have changed so dramatically.

Jaraal · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

No wonder the game feels stale. Be it graphically wise (animations, class skills, player models etc.) gameplay, they just refuse to modernize the game. I'm rather easy, if they updated certain animations and effects, I'd be mostly happy, slap in a character model touch-up and I'm done.

I don't know about others, but I am tired of slotting beast trap and a bunch of other 'must-haves' for high-end content, also, certain abilities simply look like CRAP. One fine example is the magma armor of DK, you basically look like a flaming turd."

Also, I'd like to add some very big offenders like Timbercrow Wanderer Costume, it still has that ugly diaper. It's not like PvP peeps get many things to unlock, they also gotta be censored in this way.. in a PEGI 18 game.

The game is rated 14 in some countries and is M (suggested 17) in the U.S. They have to design for all their ratings, not just the highest. That said, a look at Almalexia makes me think that maturity ratings are either not consistently applied or might not have been the reasoning behind the Timbercrow’s…behind.

Yes it clearly wasn't a modesty issue. But why they went out of their way to make an article of clothing that requires one to suspend all belief in the laws of physics is yet another issue that they have remained silent on.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7877510/#Comment_7877510

heaven13 · March 2024

kargen27 wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

The refusal to revert the templar jabs animation is a perfect example of how well ZOS listens to feedback.

Not to mention what happens to anyone who has the audacity to so much as mention PvP or Cyrodiil during a ZOS live feed.

I like the new jabs animation. Easier to see when stacked in trials and fits the timing of the skill better. Before the change players were complaining that the old animation didn't time up well with the attack. That was fixed showing that ZoS does pay attention to feedback.

I've been playing templar as a main for as long as I've been playing ESO (8 years now). I have no recollection of people complaining about the animation. I do recall some people discussing the difficulty with weaving but no complaints about the actual animation. Nevertheless, the timing could have been tweaked without changing the animation and visuals.

Scaletho · March 2024

Well, a lot of hair, beard and clothes styles -- mostly new -- has collision problems and unsolved bad positioning and movements. So I guess even the exceptions are still not addressed, aka, "unchanged".

Araneae6537 · March 2024

If only they had stuck to that for Templar’s jabs and Nightblade’s now irradiated focus…

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2024

Tbh. It is hard for me to believe there is any "no change" policy at all. There is just way too many exceptions. If they changed existing armour visual in the past and it was met with player backlash so they changed it back to what it was before, then why stuff like this keeps happening here & there ? Why they changed Werewolf visual model to ugly one & every single player would want the old one back & it is not getting implemented ? Why they changed Templar jabs animation to inferior one ? I am sorry, but I just don't buy it. I am not a game dev & I may be lacking some insights on how corporate game dev looks like, but from my perspective this "no change" to assets looks more like a policy that is only in place to justify "laziness" so that devs could save time on ignoring "less important" bugs (but still bugs). For example. Did you know that Kagouti mounts have bugged animations up to this day ? If you disable one of the visual upgrades, they don't position correctly on uneven surfaces (like stairs & ramps ). It is a minor bug, but it is in the game since like idk 8 or 9 years ? So according to this policy, stuff like this should be fixed... but no. It was not. Or how like they hot-fixed crow merchant & banker assistants so you could not use them while in Werewolf form simply because if you were transformed, then the crow animation sitting on your arm was clipping. Did they fixed the inferior asset & made it better ? Nope, they disabled they ability to use it in WW form in a hot-fix. Proper fix was never implemented. I could go on forever on how there are tons of minor (non game-breaking) bugs that are ignored, but I hope you get the idea.

heaven13 · March 2024

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. It is hard for me to believe there is any "no change" policy at all. There is just way too many exceptions. If they changed existing armour visual in the past and it was met with player backlash so they changed it back to what it was before, then why stuff like this keeps happening here & there ? Why they changed Werewolf visual model to ugly one & every single player would want the old one back & it is not getting implemented ? Why they changed Templar jabs animation to inferior one ? I am sorry, but I just don't buy it. I am not a game dev & I may be lacking some insights on how corporate game dev looks like, but from my perspective this "no change" to assets looks more like a policy that is only in place to justify "laziness" so that devs could save time on ignoring "less important" bugs (but still bugs). For example. Did you know that Kagouti mounts have bugged animations up to this day ? If you disable one of the visual upgrades, they don't position correctly on uneven surfaces (like stairs & ramps ). It is a minor bug, but it is in the game since like idk 8 or 9 years ? So according to this policy, stuff like this should be fixed... but no. It was not. Or how like they hot-fixed crow merchant & banker assistants so you could not use them while in Werewolf form simply because if you were transformed, then the crow animation sitting on your arm was clipping. Did they fixed the inferior asset & made it better ? Nope, they disabled they ability to use it in WW form in a hot-fix. Proper fix was never implemented. I could go on forever on how there are tons of minor (non game-breaking) bugs that are ignored, but I hope you get the idea.

Unfortunately, I feel like this "promise" is about the same as any other they've made: useful and referenced until it's in opposition to something they want and then it's conveniently forgotten.

No accountwide achievements (until there were)
No alliance change (until they could sell them)
DLC is always available to ESO+ (until they rebranded dlc ala Orsinium to chapters)
No changes to existing art styles (until they want to)

There's probably a longer list of things like this but these are the most memorable to me.

Faulgor · March 2024

I thoguht it was stupid back then and still do today. Even if you think people's characters shouldn't be changed, how does that apply to the rest of the game? Why should this pertain to the terribly outdated visuals of base game zones? Why are Vvardenfell guards still wearing grey armor instead of, you know, Bonemold color?

Besides, the backlash to the changed Redguard armor (nobody ever cares about the changed Orc armor apparently) was not even that big compared to other complaints that followed over the years. If they had continued to be that responsive to fan feedback, we would have had harder overland options for years.

spartaxoxo · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

No wonder the game feels stale. Be it graphically wise (animations, class skills, player models etc.) gameplay, they just refuse to modernize the game. I'm rather easy, if they updated certain animations and effects, I'd be mostly happy, slap in a character model touch-up and I'm done.

I don't know about others, but I am tired of slotting beast trap and a bunch of other 'must-haves' for high-end content, also, certain abilities simply look like CRAP. One fine example is the magma armor of DK, you basically look like a flaming turd."

Also, I'd like to add some very big offenders like Timbercrow Wanderer Costume, it still has that ugly diaper. It's not like PvP peeps get many things to unlock, they also gotta be censored in this way.. in a PEGI 18 game.

The game is rated 14 in some countries and is M (suggested 17) in the U.S. They have to design for all their ratings, not just the highest. That said, a look at Almalexia makes me think that maturity ratings are either not consistently applied or might not have been the reasoning behind the Timbercrow’s…behind.

I think it's just not consistently applied. The whole reason they adopted that policy was the aforementioned boob window cover up.

They already fixed bugs with that costume and have left it untouched of years despite community sentiment, so I don't think it's a bug.

If that thing isn't some poorly done modesty cover, then the only alternative is that they just thought it would make the costume look really cool.

heaven13 · March 2024

spartaxoxo wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

No wonder the game feels stale. Be it graphically wise (animations, class skills, player models etc.) gameplay, they just refuse to modernize the game. I'm rather easy, if they updated certain animations and effects, I'd be mostly happy, slap in a character model touch-up and I'm done.

I don't know about others, but I am tired of slotting beast trap and a bunch of other 'must-haves' for high-end content, also, certain abilities simply look like CRAP. One fine example is the magma armor of DK, you basically look like a flaming turd."

Also, I'd like to add some very big offenders like Timbercrow Wanderer Costume, it still has that ugly diaper. It's not like PvP peeps get many things to unlock, they also gotta be censored in this way.. in a PEGI 18 game.

The game is rated 14 in some countries and is M (suggested 17) in the U.S. They have to design for all their ratings, not just the highest. That said, a look at Almalexia makes me think that maturity ratings are either not consistently applied or might not have been the reasoning behind the Timbercrow’s…behind.

I think it's just not consistently applied. The whole reason they adopted that policy was the aforementioned boob window cover up.

They already fixed bugs with that costume and have left it untouched of years despite community sentiment, so I don't think it's a bug.

If that thing isn't some poorly done modesty cover, then the only alternative is that they just thought it would make the costume look really cool.

Ugh, that costume is so...UGH. Seeing your character's underpants would have been a better choice all the way around. Which can already be done by just leaving your pants off so it would be no different, modesty-wise.

Udrath · March 2024

“Hey boss check out my jabs animations”
“do better”
*goes live*
“wait”
”nO ChAngE!”

StihlReign · March 2024

Udrath wrote: »

“Hey boss check out my jabs animations”
“do better”
*PTS*
"don't do this"
*goes live*
“wait”
”nO ChAngE!”

Fixed it

Danikat · March 2024

2 things with the age rating:

1) They can be changed if necessary. In Europe the rating went from 16+ to 18+ when the Justice System was added, because it became possible to murder innocent NPCs with no consequences (if you don't get caught). Not sure about others but PEGI (the European ratings board) rates each chapter, they always get the same rating but it means they're already reviewing it annually.

2) Different ratings boards have different standards, based on cultural expectations in the area/s they cover. If the game is rated 14+ somewhere it's not because they require the game to meet American or European standards of what's appropriate for a 14 year old, it's because they consider what's in the game to be appropriate for a 14 year old.

I don't know where that is or what their criteria are but I do know one common example is games getting a different rating in Europe to America because Europe is less concerned about sexual content and alcohol use and more concerned about violence, so a dating game for example (lots of sexual content, no violence) might be rated 18+ in America and only 16+ or even 12+ in Europe.

Anumaril · March 2024

Even under this policy, they would still be perfectly capable of updating older assets to increase their quality. The recent strain of "Ancestral [insert race here]" motifs that have been similar to that. They keep the style of the original assets while improving their quality to be roughly on-par with current motifs.

That being said, Ancestral motifs aren't a perfect 1:1. If I remember correctly, the High Elf light armour motif had a kind of leather helm, not a hood, while the Ancestral High Elf motif has a hood. But they could've just as easily made that same leather helm too.

So assets can still be updated while not altering the style.