Grave Lord's Sacrifice feels really clunky

CameraBeardThePirate · March 12

There's a few things really holding back this skill.

1) You can't cast it out of combat, and even if it's the very first ability you cast when entering combat, you still don't have the buff for another 2-3 globals. This just doesn't feel too great, and means you can't open combat with a combo because your abilities won't be buffed. If the buff falls off, you cant perform a combo immediately after casting the buff because of the delay. Compare this to Arcanist's Inspired Scholarship, which effectively does the same thing (increases the damage of class abilities), but it can be cast outside of combat, and instantly activates.

2) Despite being 20 seconds, you have to cast the buff 17 seconds into the timer to achieve 100% uptime. The Skeleton takes the usual amount of time to leap you (2-3 seconds), so if you wait until the buff expires to recast, the buff falls off.

3) Perhaps the absolute worst aspect of this skill, you can line-of-sight your own buff. This is unacceptable in my opinion. When kiting enemies around an area in PvP, I can't rebuff while kiting like I could with any other ability, because by kiting my enemies, I'll also be kiting the Skeleton. If the Skeleton doesn't have Line of Sight on the user, the user won't get the buff.

I propose allowing it to be cast out of combat, giving the buff immediately on cast, and simply creating the corpse when it leaps. The skill feels even clunkier than old Blastbones, because at least when Stalking took its time to jump, it was getting a huge damage boost.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 12

I believe it's still every 20 seconds, because the buff starts when the bone sacrifice hits you.

0 seconds - use GLS
2.5 seconds - bone sacrifice hits, buff begins
20 seconds - use GLS again
22.5 seconds - buff ends, new bone sacrifice hits you

CameraBeardThePirate · March 12

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I believe it's still every 20 seconds, because the buff starts when the bone sacrifice hits you.

0 seconds - use GLS
2.5 seconds - bone sacrifice hits, buff begins
20 seconds - use GLS again
22.5 seconds - buff ends, new bone sacrifice hits you

Yes but my point is you have to cast it before the timer ends. You cannot cast it as the timer ends or there will be dropoff.

Necrotech_Master · March 12

being able to avoid your own buff, the delay of the buff itself, being unable to cast outside of combat, and needing to recast early to maintain uptime on buffs sounds like the antithesis of every other buff in the game lol

they really should have added more buffs to the skeletal mage/archer as there would be no delay on that and its a horribly underpowered skill to begin with

MashmalloMan · March 12

Whats new? We all knew this week 1 of PTS

In terms of the likelihood of this being changed in the future based on ZOS's history, I would honestly be optimistic because of their comments on it and how quickly it changed during the PTS based on real feedback regarding ranged corpse generation and aoe dps. They technically fixed that problem, even if it's not ideal by requiring a second skill. The point is, they did listen, so keep providing feedback and I do think for once, they'll actually update this skill quicker than most complaints in the past. Hopefully by U42

For those that maybe didn't follow the PTS:

We’ve seen a lot of great feedback for the new functionality these abilities have gone through, highlighting both the good and bad that the rework provided. Things are on the right track but we’ve seen many of the short comings that came with the initial proposals. The main areas we’re hoping to improve on with this pass are the following:

Your Area of Effect damage capabilities when not taking the Blighted morph, as sacrificing the explosive lad led to a large loss
The disruption to the natural flow of corpse generation and consumption, as having all of your corpses spawn around you as the caster led to a highly restrictive playstyle that forced you into melee, while making tethers far more cumbersome to use than intended

The above adjustments should help alleviate some of the issues the rework imposed, while still offering relatively familiar advantages and experiences to the original ability, but with a simpler to use and build around rotation. We’ll continue to keep an eye on this ability and its morphs as the year progresses and data comes in; we’re aware that the ability likely still hasn’t hit its perfect mark just yet, but we’re hopeful that it’s still an improvement for a large amount of players who were previously put off by how demanding the class was.

The reason the skill is required to be in combat is because it's a unique unnamed buff that lasts for 20s. It's the same reason Blackrose Dual Wield only works in combat now, among many other skills and sets. ZOS hasn't figured out a way or doesn't want to implement a way, for the game to detect whether or not the weapons or in this case ability is still on your bar with duration based bonuses. With add-ons being allowed, you can press 1 button to switch the ability out instantly, so it would go against their efforts to deter players from circumventing the 14 item slot, 12 skill slot cost/opportunity.

Potential fixes:

Require an enemy target the same way Blighted Blastbones works. Would still have the awkward 3s delay, but much more obvious when it can or can't be cast. Can be used as an opener.
Apply buff while slotted on either bar, introduce a new on cast effect.
Move away from the unique bonus for a named one, introduce a new on cast effect.

I like option 2.

OtarTheMad · March 13

All ZOS had to do was give was give BB a dot to enemies it hit on top of what it already did. That would have eased the rotation a bit because you’d have some constant damage and give necro that sticky dot it needs.

They over thought the situation and put necro in a worse spot.

MashmalloMan · March 13

OtarTheMad wrote: »

All ZOS had to do was give was give BB a dot to enemies it hit on top of what it already did. That would have eased the rotation a bit because you’d have some constant damage and give necro that sticky dot it needs.

They over thought the situation and put necro in a worse spot.

If a skill deals more damage per cast upfront than a spammable, you will always want to use it first, regardless of if there is extra power over time. You would still use the 3s rotation they're looking to provide an alternative option to if the dot was just tacked on.

The only way this idea works is if you reduce the upfront damage as well.

Blighted = 3600 + Diseased (every 3s)
(New) GLS = 1800 + 3600 over 10 seconds
Short duration dots like Burning Talons = 1799 + 1635 over 5 seconds + 2812 Synergy/4s Immobilize
20s dots like Degen = 4642 over 20s

For context:

Ranged Spammables = 2091
Melee Spammables = 2323 - 2400ish

AvidNecro · March 13

I think people need to give blighted blast bones a chance here with the new status effects change. I am eager to try out my build on xbox NA when U41 comes to console.

https://youtu.be/PyldJiPIBw4?si=F75LvU7RrMVmgw6V