One of the reason is because a lot of content are doable without tank. Normal dungeon, vet base game dungeon, normal arena, WB, world event, etc.
While being a tank in normal solo game play mean you need to change gear or build cause why spend 3 mins fighting a story boss solo while you can be done with it in 10 sec with dps setup.
They try to fix that with armory but out of greed, they made slot per toon and the mobile armory cost crown. So it is not really pushing dps player toward tanking.

It's a multifaceted issue. One part is that you don't need tanks until you do but also new tanks feel immense pressure to be perfect immediately or they'll feel like they'll be yelled at (which could happen), so they don't get into it. Endgame tanks mostly don't PuG because of low damage. ZOS can't fix peoples attitude or their DPS, so there's very little PuG tanks, it is what it is. Maybe the shortage drives some people into tanking at least.

The only thing I think ZOS could do about it is improve how they teach people by making better tutorials. A tank tutorial (a tanktorial, if you will) where you have to reach a certain amount of resistances and learn several basic mechanics to pass would probably help a lot of people with their confidence.

It's multilayered issue.

Most people don't want to play tank as their first character, it's a lot of responsibility and questing as one for a new player isn't great.

Player retention, PvP and end game PvE players (a lot of them were doing both but quit because one of the modes was lacking support) are ones that were leaking in masses throughout the years and not much was done to prevent any of this or work towards players trust. It also creates shortage of people willing to teach and form groups as both are taking responsibility.

Lack of content creators which are connected to previous point. It wasn't like that even couple years ago, people were doing maths left and right helping out outside discord groups and even those were full of life, like Toxic Raiding Environment where you were able to learn a lot from best players game had to offer. Their alternatives looking close to dead in comparison.

Turtling up of remaining and new tanks into their own groups, because lacking DPS most of the time and comfort of running with mentally capable people. IMO partially it's because zeni invited a lot of casual players into doing not casual stuff by their accessibility crusade. Accessibility can be overdone or promoted to the wrong group which creates issues like people without a right mindset are entering group content. It creates unnecessary toxicity and makes clearing at times not possible even with best support. That's why pugs are insufferable more than they ever were, but again that's IMO. (what was the last time your pug was able to remain intact for hours learning encounter in vet dlc dungeon without people leaving to every sneeze?)

For me its the lack of an ingame-resource for learning mechanics ( a Dungeonbook if you will). I dont have time ro read up on literally hundreds of Bosses via an outside source.
WoW does this perfectly. They have an ingame Dungeonguide including suggestions on how to deal with bosses attacks.
/edit Plus a little clearer telegraphs would be nice. But thats just a personal pet peeve.

colossalvoids wrote: »

It's multilayered issue.

Most people don't want to play tank as their first character, it's a lot of responsibility and questing as one for a new player isn't great.

Player retention, PvP and end game PvE players (a lot of them were doing both but quit because one of the modes was lacking support) are ones that were leaking in masses throughout the years and not much was done to prevent any of this or work towards players trust. It also creates shortage of people willing to teach and form groups as both are taking responsibility.

Lack of content creators which are connected to previous point. It wasn't like that even couple years ago, people were doing maths left and right helping out outside discord groups and even those were full of life, like Toxic Raiding Environment where you were able to learn a lot from best players game had to offer. Their alternatives looking close to dead in comparison.

Turtling up of remaining and new tanks into their own groups, because lacking DPS most of the time and comfort of running with mentally capable people. IMO partially it's because zeni invited a lot of casual players into doing not casual stuff by their accessibility crusade. Accessibility can be overdone or promoted to the wrong group which creates issues like people without a right mindset are entering group content. It creates unnecessary toxicity and makes clearing at times not possible even with best support. That's why pugs are insufferable more than they ever were, but again that's IMO. (what was the last time your pug was able to remain intact for hours learning encounter in vet dlc dungeon without people leaving to every sneeze?)

Many many years a go I suggested an achievement for playing support roles in the group finder. We get achievements for blocking, healing, damage etc and killing specific mobs but support roles are rarely rewarded beyond that.

As you said, there are many causes for the lack of competent support players around when they are finally needed. The overall places are fewer. There is less opportunity to learn and when you do, no in game reward for sticking around and tanking vHRC for the hundredth time while you deal with yet another pug!

I'm not sure technically it could be linked to the group finder but something like: taking a tanking role in x normal dungeons, x vet dungeons, x DLC dungeons and the same for trials being rewarded with sets dyes skins mounts could encourage people to hang around, teach others and put up with the nonsense that learning to tank and actually tanking entails unless you are in a friendly group

Well, as a tank I've seen the problem. For starters, players mostly do not want to tank as it is more intensive/stressful and they receive a lot of toxicity when something goes wrong. Not everyone is made out for that, can kinda compare it to PvP. Though I love tanking and not PvP.

But the difficulty flow from high to low is broken. You can't learn tanking in overland, well not really. So new tanks queue for normal randoms to learn tanking. But they can't because either one person runs ahead(speedrunner), and the tank is forced to follow. Or they get a fake healer which makes the group fall apart while the tank gets blamed for everyone dying. So the tank decides to go veteran dungeons, as normal are soooo easy right... well no, as they get a reality check in veteran dungeon about not knowing anything. They don't know how to tank as they never learned, they do not know mechanics as none were done in normals. So they get kicked or the group falls apart. (The same happens to all other roles unable to learn in normals!)
Due to not being able to learn their role in overland, dungeons, and veteran dungeons they do not sign up for trials because trials are a difficulty tier above veteran dungeons and these players already failed at those.

Leaving these want-to-tank players stuck, being unable to learn and unable to get out of this difficulty void. Keep in mind, all the while a tank is usually blamed for a group falling apart.

Now onto the next tank issue: Updates! Almost every update tanks get nerfed and nerfed and nerfed due to player's tankiness in PvP. Which sucks big time. When you do finally get to learn your role and get your build together, you can change it again every few months because "update!". Yay... yeah, no!

All these issues combined leave fewer and fewer tanks in the game.

PS: This issue/thread also shows how harmful fake role/speedrunner players are to the health of the game.

EDIT:

Grega wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Yeah, have to agree with that. I wouldn't even have the armory assistant, but I won a prize in a guild event. Only buying some slots because of expiring Crowns.

Do crowns really expire? Now I’m worried lol

Yeah, in one or two countries which have very strict rules about online currency crowns can expire. Don't worry about it too much.

Grega wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Yeah, have to agree with that. I wouldn't even have the armory assistant, but I won a prize in a guild event. Only buying some slots because of expiring Crowns.

Do crowns really expire? Now I’m worried lol

In Japan they do, not sure if there are other areas. It was a recent update

Sarannah wrote: »

Well, as a tank I've seen the problem. For starters, players mostly do not want to tank as it is more intensive/stressful and they receive a lot of toxicity when something goes wrong. Not everyone is made out for that, can kinda compare it to PvP. Though I love tanking and not PvP.

But the difficulty flow from high to low is broken. You can't learn tanking in overland, well not really. So new tanks queue for normal randoms to learn tanking. But they can't because either one person runs ahead(speedrunner), and the tank is forced to follow. Or they get a fake healer which makes the group fall apart while the tank gets blamed for everyone dying. So the tank decides to go veteran dungeons, as normal are soooo easy right... well no, as they get a reality check in veteran dungeon about not knowing anything. They don't know how to tank as they never learned, they do not know mechanics as none were done in normals. So they get kicked or the group falls apart. (The same happens to all other roles unable to learn in normals!)
Due to not being able to learn their role in overland, dungeons, and veteran dungeons they do not sign up for trials because trials are a difficulty tier above veteran dungeons and these players already failed at those.

It’s the same for healers too.
Nobody wants support in the group until they can’t do without it by which time all the support toons have given up and gone dd.

It's really hard to get into tanking, especially in harder trials (such as DSR).
People will beg for a tank, but if a tank makes a mistake and dies, several people leave immediately.

ElderSmitter wrote: »

I am an End Game Tank just hanging out in Craglorn just finished a vCR+1 Pug and it's astonishing how bad it is. People are begging for Tanks. I watched a vDSR go without a tank for so long the group broke up and was Full minus 1 Tank. The other Tank jumped into something else.. Even Normal Trials people are desperate for Tanks. Worst is we need 3 Tanks for CR+1 so it sucks even more Tanks up lol.. I really do not recall it being this bad.

For veteran DLC trials blame the gatekeepers.

I don't belong to but a single trade group for 10 years as wanting my peace and quiet. The only way to run content is through PUG.
Because years ago did vMOL and vCR+1 as a healer, these are the only trials can join because of the restrictions imposed by the gatekeepers.

Have tried countless times to get into a vet DSR, vet SE with any of the above role (mainly tank) and got refused. Have seen trials asking for tanks for couple of hours on EU prime time, yet couldn't accept someone who doesn't have the achievement. An achievement anyone can get by just paying some gold for a carry, like many DDs do.

So personally I don't care about your problem, blame those who prohibit people like myself to join their groups. And I am not alone, you will find this is the grudge of the outright majority of the casual player base.

C_Inside wrote: »

It probably doesn't help that many trial groups, even pugs, insist that supports wear very specific sets, many of which are found through dlc dungeons or dlc trials that tanks without ESO+ or who haven't bought the edition of ESO with all the current chapters won't have access to. If you're not bringing some combination of Pearlescent Ward/Powerful Assault/Saxhleel Champion/Turning Tide then there's a pretty good chance the other tank will start whining. Even if the content really doesn't necessitate running optimized gear. I've had that happen to me countless times on my healer when I don't bring RoJo for the massive endgame challenge that is nHRC.

Plus the fact that tanks often need skills from the pvp skill lines that are a massive pain to grind really doesn't help. Especially if you don't like pvp to begin with, which a lot of players don't.

Also vet content tanking with buffbot gear in PUG is suicide.

Buffbot gear only works on set groups where all 12 synergise together and all know what they are doing. Trying to run a PUG and dying because the healers are pants, is a problem because the whole team will fall apart. So full self preservation is the way for all tanks to survive in PUGs and get the job done.

From my experience, the only tank that can get away with buffbot gear even if the healers and DDs are pants, is the Arcanist. Even the DK requires self sustaining sets to survive crap healers.

JonesFPS wrote: »

For veteran DLC trials blame the gatekeepers.

I don't belong to but a single trade group for 10 years as wanting my peace and quiet. The only way to run content is through PUG.
Because years ago did vMOL and vCR+1 as a healer, these are the only trials can join because of the restrictions imposed by the gatekeepers.

Have tried countless times to get into a vet DSR, vet SE with any of the above role (mainly tank) and got refused. Have seen trials asking for tanks for couple of hours on EU prime time, yet couldn't accept someone who doesn't have the achievement. An achievement anyone can get by just paying some gold for a carry, like many DDs do.

So personally I don't care about your problem, blame those who prohibit people like myself to join their groups. And I am not alone, you will find this is the grudge of the outright majority of the casual player base.

Well PUG runs are in most cases not a training run they want a clear and that as smooth as possible. And linking the achievment so they can see that you cleared it at least once is the easiest way to filter out "incapable" people. Even if like you mentioned there are many ways around that requirement.
I would not call that gatekeeping as a Tank is a vital role for clearing it and if you havent done it before the chances for the other people to clear it drop drastically.
If you want a "safe" enviroment look for a guild that does training runs. There should be enough out there.
Blaming other people wont help you to improve. Maybe just maybe you should look at what you can improve/ do better before blaming other people --> for example look for a guild that does training runs --> join the training runs --> listen to the raidleads --> take hints ( gear,skills etc) --> get the clear and after all that you can now join the PUGS in craglorn pretty easy isnt it?

I don't care about "safe environment". I am literally pointing the irony here.

That is why stopped giving ..... about those complaining that there is a lack of tanks or healer, waiting 2-3 hours until find one.

Is a game after all. Something from your own post shows that you forgot why you play games.

Grega wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Yeah, have to agree with that. I wouldn't even have the armory assistant, but I won a prize in a guild event. Only buying some slots because of expiring Crowns.

Do crowns really expire? Now I’m worried lol

Only in some countries, look it up if unsure

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Yeah, have to agree with that. I wouldn't even have the armory assistant, but I won a prize in a guild event. Only buying some slots because of expiring Crowns.

Crowns expire?

I had some from 2017 on my account when I came back in August....

Here's why I basically retired from tanking:

Full tank set up does insufficient damage to comfortably do overland/solo content. If I can't do 10-12k dps in full tank gear, I don't want to do it. 10-12k dps is plenty for that content and that level of dps does not threaten the role of dd's. I'm not a PvPer but I suspect the inadequate damage that tanks put out is rooted there.

No AoE taunt. I know this is a contentious issue but if I can't have it, much of my interest in tanking evaporates.

Pugs that don't know how to work with a tank. I can't imagine tanking without solid voice communication with a group of players that I know will respond to my requests. Simple things like let the tank gain aggro before attacking. If in danger, drag your threat to the tank, don't run around/away.

Disclaimer: My tanking experience applies to dungeons only. I have no experience or interest in herding a large group of cats trials.