Play the game correctly or how you enjoy it?

Lord_Hev · May 2014

Copy & pasting from another thread because of relevancy.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yes, exactly! Except... that logic is not consistent. VR enemies *are* over-powered beyond balanced.

A lvl 49 player vs a lvl 49 bandit trash trio is different than a VR 1 fighting the same trash(now VR1), but instead of a trio, it's actually a mere duo.

I'm handling elite Dremora quartets in Coldharbour. They can easily kill me if I mess up. But I can handle it. Now suddenly, I fight only *2* bandits[whatever their Bleakrock counter-part names are] and they pose a serious threat. Three random bandits? I swear It feels like I'm fighting three elite warriors whom have survived a dozen tours of duty. Four+ random bandits? Utter suicide if my Ultimate is not ready because it randomly reset after taking a quick bathroom break, or if I take two minutes to listen to some NPC tell his woes to me.

Even more weird, I could swear their common Iron and steel gear were actually rare Ebony or something. I mean, how else to explain them taking more hits than the Daedric armored, mere one-level-lower, lvl 50 immortal, built-for-apex-endurance physical superiority and utterly fearless immortal Dremora warriors/captains/dukes(the Kynmarcers, Markynaz, and the other new titles ZOS added that clearly show these specific Dremora mobs to reflect their difficulty) with Calcinium(at least, it looks like the VR 1 calcinium gear you can forge with the Daedra motif) Daedric gear. and battle experience since the Dawn era existed. Odd...

Yes, reflect. Those lvl 50 Dremora reflect their stats. There is a difference in difficulty between 3 lvl 50 Dremora Churls & Caitiffs. Compared to three lvl 50 Dremora Kynmarchers, Narkynaz, Harbuz-whatever) and other new titles that illustrate their unique experience and capability. Like the Kynlurkers utilizing elite shadow skills. Cool. It makes sense too, I mean, I am fighting these fearsome fully sapient and sentient Daedra. Coldharbour is a good example of proper balance. You have trash mobs(Dremora churls). Intermediate mobs.(Dremora mixed units and Dark Seducers) These are trash mobs whom are a threat in a logical sense that does not destroy my suspension of disbelief.

Why am I now finding a mere duo of bandit no-lives, pushing me to my limits? WTF? Because they gained ONE level with a stupid shiny symbol next to it? What is this? Did I just out-of-nowhere activate Vestige must die difficulty or something? If the VR1 enemies are this scaled up? I dread to think of how Over-powered the VR 10 enemies are going to be. Unless their stats do not scale that consistently high? I sure wasn't expecting a severe jump from lvl 50 to VR 1. I mean, if I somehow ended up in a VR 10 zone, I'd understand... I mean sure, bandit no-lives here, but hey! I guess it is lvl 50 to VR 10 jump. I should have started at VR *1*! Oh, silly me!

NOPE. That's not the case. These ramped up trash mobs *are* a mere one level higher(just one level higher, only ONE) than the elite daedric mobs I was *just* facing an hour ago. Did I do something wrong here? Why do I all of a sudden feel under-leveled? How odd... I'm VR 1 fighting VR 1 enemies, yet I feel under-leveled. I feel like I'm fighting VR 10 enemies at VR 1. This is unbalanced. There should not be such a steep ramp-up of enemy stats. The VR 1 gear is IDENTICAL to lvl 50 gear. My stats are just minimally increased compared to my lvl 49 stats. Why do I suddenly feel under-leveled? And seeing as how the logic of VR ranks and progression goes... I feel like it's only going to get more ridiculous than it already is.

I do not mind the occasional pack leader, or named/unique/important-somebody-of-renown-and-battle-history/Boss to be able to solo me. But EVERY single trash down to even skeevers and mudcrabs? Dammit, the balance of VR is soooo over-the-place, that Mudcrabs and Skeevers out-dps and out-tank Wolves whom are actual predators. lolwtflogic? I guess they forgot to buff the poor wolves to God-hood? At least the Skeevers were given their uber-steroid shot because reasons.

I'm all for challenge. If it makes sense, and if I'm not getting headaches from fighting two nobodies soaking all my hits, and piercing through my over-charged armor and spell resist stats as if I were naked with 0 points put into my maxed-out 49 point health allocation; Every single encounter.

What is this supposed to encourage? It certainly isn't their advertised "play how you want." Because, even the crappiest and self-restricted build *can* work in the 1-50 zones with dedication. Maybe they will be forced to re-spec when facing the final boss of the 1-50 content... In VR content? lolnope. I have overcharged stats and buffed(superior) lvl 50-identical-to-VR1(superior) equipment, and I'm still getting shredded. What does it encourage? Min-max playstyles. Guess what min-max mentality leads too? The current Vampire in PvP conundrum. And guess what that leads too? NERFS.

Who did I encounter faring significantly better than me in this VR 1 zone? Some VR 1 Templar rushing directly into the group and spamming that Aedric Spear ability like 5 times in a row, non-stop, and then rinse and repeat. Killing those three uber-buffed bandits I was forced to cautiously approach... Wow, VET content is so challenging and eipcz. I guess I need to choose only the best skills and spam them until they get nerfed, because the VR 1 trash bandit no-lives are actually elite battle-hardened warriors of a dozen tours that wear VR 2 Legendary Calcinium gear that oddly looks like it's just level 14 Iron gear... Clearly I must have been hallucinating from skooma or something... I mean, I could have sworn those bandits only had iron swords and armor... Or maybe they had the Developer kit at their disposal and buffed their level 14 iron gear to the stats of VR 10 legendary Voidsteel or whatever. Darn cheating AI...

SUPER-SHORT-AND-TO-THE POINT:

VR enemies *are* Over-powered. There's a glaring gap between lvl 50 and VR 1 enemies, with extremely minuscule increase in player stats and gear(lvl 50 and VR 1 are 100% identical.) You remain a little above lvl 49, while the VR 1 enemies SKY-ROCKET to God-hood.

I imagine Vr 5 - 10 enemies are more "balanced" because at least at that level, you can actually use gear that gives you the necessary buffs. But the VR 1 - 4 enemies? They need to be nerfed without mercy. The VR 5 -10 might need a few nerfs too, based on whatever data ZOS is monitoring.

Loxy37 · May 2014

I just chucked together my sorc (VR2) and Temp(44) and both have 2 proffs which are pretty much fully skilled with points. I've had very little issue with content and VR up to now in no harder than newb levels. Fair enough, VR requires a little more brain power as mistakes can be costly but I believe even the newb levels should be that way. I wonder how many people who struggle have all the proff and then expect to make a character compatible with the raised difficulty?

Mortelus · May 2014

@Csub Truth is I tried re-rolling a 2h Sorc, and is fun, but I already love my Stealthy Ranger NB.

I am also not on VR levels yet, but I have been reading a lot about how useless this type of class is later on.

I will continue onward in the hope that when I eventually get to VR Zeni has fixed the class and made them a little better in handling groups of mobs.

Alyrn_Grey · May 2014

Mortelus wrote: »

Blackhorne wrote: »

In any game where the content difficulty actually increases and there is meaningful distinction between builds, the number of viable builds will diminish as the game progresses. This is because the increased difficulty of the content amplifies the disparities between builds.

In a game this complex, it is not feasible to balance even two different builds such that their effectiveness remains constant with each other throughout all content, let alone the more than 7x10^50 possible builds if you consider Class, Weapon, and Armor skill points alone, not even considering world, racial, or crafting skills, or attribute points.

There have not been enough characters created to determine all viable builds throughout the game, let alone the optimal builds for each class.

As true as this maybe, it is a moot point. Zeni says 'play how you want'. From what I have heard, my archer NB is going to be useless in VR levels. Meaning I cannot play how I want.

And as for classes, Demon Souls is Hard, way harder than this game is. Yet every class can complete the game with a little effort.

If I get to VR level and my bowmen is dying and I am unable to realistically enjoy the experience because it is too weak a class, then to me, that is not a proper design, more a design fault.

Every class should be able to cope at VR levels, sure some will be easier, some tougher, but ALL can have an enjoyable experience, not a death fest!

Your mistake is in thinking that play how you want means every build will be a success.

Play how you want means you are free to build a character that sucks.

There that is a harsh reality. The game isn't going to hold your hand and make every build successful. Some of them are just going to suck no matter what you do but you are free to play it.

Korkhan · May 2014

Are you telling me a NB bowman is not able to kill 1 normal veteran mob? I find that very hard to believe.

If you can kill one you can kill two. NB has a wonderful skill called Agony which makes two 1v1 fights instead of one 2v1. In some groups it is possible to kill caster/archer before the fight starts with stealth and Impale (Assassin's Blade morph). If I can kill a necromancer in heavy armor with SnB from strong stealth attack followed by Assassin's Blade then I'm sure it is much easier in medium armor and much more crit value.

3v1 can be more difficult but not impossible. If you can pick up the soft target you have a 2v1 fight. If there is no soft target then I think most builds will have problems.

And when it comes to Robin Hood. Do you know what he does when enemy is close? He uses his sword

Spryt · May 2014

I find most build work as long as you dont just go for 5 aoe skills or something. As long as you have a mix of damage/support and cc. All weapon, class and armour combos have something you can mix to get a good balance.

Chirru · May 2014

Original Poster...do not be dismayed by the many jackass responses. your points are valid. In veteran content there are only a few viable builds to survive and everyone basically ends up cookie-cutter.

now...before the mob starts screaming... post your actual Veteran builds and what will you see? Vampire, Vampire, Vampire, Vampire and more Vampire...and Sorc and Sorc and more Sors and DK's and DK's galore...ah and once in a blue moon a Templar and once in three blue moons a Night Blade....same in PvP.

Yea... all builds are viable...some are just very frustrating to play and some can not be played at all unless you enjoy being defeated many times. If the trend continues in the end there will be only two or three viable builds and every one will use these. Clones... all clones, just as in any other MMO.

zaria · May 2014

Mortelus wrote: »

Blackhorne wrote: »

In any game where the content difficulty actually increases and there is meaningful distinction between builds, the number of viable builds will diminish as the game progresses. This is because the increased difficulty of the content amplifies the disparities between builds.

In a game this complex, it is not feasible to balance even two different builds such that their effectiveness remains constant with each other throughout all content, let alone the more than 7x10^50 possible builds if you consider Class, Weapon, and Armor skill points alone, not even considering world, racial, or crafting skills, or attribute points.

There have not been enough characters created to determine all viable builds throughout the game, let alone the optimal builds for each class.

As true as this maybe, it is a moot point. Zeni says 'play how you want'. From what I have heard, my archer NB is going to be useless in VR levels. Meaning I cannot play how I want.

And as for classes, Demon Souls is Hard, way harder than this game is. Yet every class can complete the game with a little effort.

If I get to VR level and my bowmen is dying and I am unable to realistically enjoy the experience because it is too weak a class, then to me, that is not a proper design, more a design fault.

Every class should be able to cope at VR levels, sure some will be easier, some tougher, but ALL can have an enjoyable experience, not a death fest!

I can not see how bows are useless, more that lots of nightblade abilities are bugged and people don't know.

Alurria · May 2014

Just a question, are we talking about certain classes that are having a difficult time with VR1 content? Or overall difficulty ratio? Maybe I missed it in the OP's post but what class is he/she? What skills? Did they get skill increases from reading all books they could find? I see people everyday running by bookshelves and not checking. I can't help but to think maybe the folks who are having trouble missed something vital on the rush to veteran rank. I'm not there yet myself but I'm trying to understand why some are having problems when others are not?

hamon · May 2014

Csub wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

If I put only heals to both weapon slots and go unarmed, or better yet, if I don't equip new items or spend status/skill points and go unarmed cause that's how I want to play, can I also complain that the game is too hard and ZOS lied to me? pleaaaseee.

NO because this is idiotic.

Having a ranger archer class that can not complete compete at the harder VR levels is a legitimate argument.

Mortelus wrote: »

You are just being silly for the sake of creating an argument.

Or he made an argument while being silly. Perspective.

I like your way of thinking!

But what I meant, is that if you take everything literally, you're going to have a hard/bad time, not just in this game but in general. I think it is obvious that there are limits but the fact that you can have a gazillion of viable builds makes up for that limit. Especially so if we consider that this is true for the class roles: you can tank ad a mage, heal as a NB, or cast stuff as a melee.

or it could be viewed that its puerile and immature to simply point out the most extreme example you can think of to try to negate a reasonable arguement. most adults usually accept that their are obviously boundaries of what is playing "your way" and whats just plain stupid. so ye thanks for pointing out what is to most normal people blatantly obvious...

so to be crystal clear in case there is any doubts left.. nobody wants the game a bit more balanced for people who choose to run around naked spamming heals on rabbits.. however it isn't unreasonable to expect that using a bow past vet might be at least as usefull as it was getting to 50.

Csub · May 2014

hamon wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

If I put only heals to both weapon slots and go unarmed, or better yet, if I don't equip new items or spend status/skill points and go unarmed cause that's how I want to play, can I also complain that the game is too hard and ZOS lied to me? pleaaaseee.

NO because this is idiotic.

Having a ranger archer class that can not complete compete at the harder VR levels is a legitimate argument.

Mortelus wrote: »

You are just being silly for the sake of creating an argument.

Or he made an argument while being silly. Perspective.

I like your way of thinking!

But what I meant, is that if you take everything literally, you're going to have a hard/bad time, not just in this game but in general. I think it is obvious that there are limits but the fact that you can have a gazillion of viable builds makes up for that limit. Especially so if we consider that this is true for the class roles: you can tank ad a mage, heal as a NB, or cast stuff as a melee.

or it could be viewed that its puerile and immature to simply point out the most extreme example you can think of to try to negate a reasonable arguement. most adults usually accept that their are obviously boundaries of what is playing "your way" and whats just plain stupid. so ye thanks for pointing out what is to most normal people blatantly obvious...

so to be crystal clear in case there is any doubts left.. nobody wants the game a bit more balanced for people who choose to run around naked spamming heals on rabbits.. however it isn't unreasonable to expect that using a bow past vet might be at least as usefull as it was getting to 50.

As I said before, I do not play as a NB and I am not on VR zones yet, but I am aware of the issues of the NB class. However, that is more of a balancing/bugfixing issue rather than false promises.

Selstad · May 2014

Play as you want? Yes you can. But consider this:

You have a nail that needs to be hammered into the wall. On the table in front of you, there's a hammer, a screwdriver, a tape measurer and a wrench. Any of these tools can be used to hammer that nail into the wall, but only 1 does that job better than the others. Welcome to ESO, you have the table set, your tools are in front of you, and they all do the job of killing the bad guys. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best tool for the job.

Lord_Hev · May 2014

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Just a question, are we talking about certain classes that are having a difficult time with VR1 content? Or overall difficulty ratio? Maybe I missed it in the OP's post but what class is he/she? What skills? Did they get skill increases from reading all books they could find? I see people everyday running by bookshelves and not checking. I can't help but to think maybe the folks who are having trouble missed something vital on the rush to veteran rank. I'm not there yet myself but I'm trying to understand why some are having problems when others are not?

The classes are fine. The difficulty ratio is just absurd. This also has the unfortunate side-effect of making min-max builds superior and more efficient while making the average diverse build a handicap. Which in-turn makes certain classes stand-out more. Which in-turn limits play-styles for later content. Which in-turn leads to the exploitation of any hardcore builds that work flawlessly. Which in-turn leads to a marginal increase in more and more players learning of this build from other min-maxers and then copying the build. Which in-turn then leads to class nerfs.

The core of the issue in all this? The VR enemies are unbalanced and over-powered for their level and progression gap. The difficuly increase does not correlate with level increase. There are disparities among indiviual enemy stats. and there is a huge disparity between the stats of VR 1 enemies and fresh VR 1 players. And then the discrepancy in stats only gets worse as you progress.

This is also an example of fake difficulty. Albeit, more subtle and perhaps, unintentional. It is difficult to ascertain proper balance for the majority when their private testers min-max from knowing the game inside-out. It is why now, *suddenly* this has been brought to attention; As the amount of players reaching VR ranks increase. At least now, ZOS has reliable and consistent statistics to observe and work with.

hamon · May 2014

thats it exactly. ive been making the same point you make quite succinctly. All these folk who call vet mode "end game" are being fooled. how can end game be considered as 3 thirds of the levelling content re-vamped by simply buffing the enemies in an arbitrary way.. by definition "end game" is when there is no more levelling to be done and you have capped... jesus is it so easy to fool so many folk by calling it vet levelling as opposed to normal levelling? levelling is levelling no matter how you dress it up.

hamon · May 2014

Selstad wrote: »

Play as you want? Yes you can. But consider this:

You have a nail that needs to be hammered into the wall. On the table in front of you, there's a hammer, a screwdriver, a tape measurer and a wrench. Any of these tools can be used to hammer that nail into the wall, but only 1 does that job better than the others. Welcome to ESO, you have the table set, your tools are in front of you, and they all do the job of killing the bad guys. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best tool for the job.

ok i,ll go with your analogy. lets say i buy the game with the promise i won't have to use the hammer alongside everyone else. That making everyone use their special "ccokie cutting" hammer might be the most efficient but the nail could be worked in by other means if "hammering " isn't your thing.

then suddenly half way into the game it becomes apparent that all other tools are useless and we should all be clones and use nothing but hammers. To me the game just got boring and will end up a lot of mindless hammerers spamming the same rotations of hammer attacks as it becomes the only way to do anything.

is that desirable?

Selstad · May 2014

That works out from the assumption that the nail doesn't even budge when you throw anything at it but the hammer. That isn't the case here, as a sorcerer per example, I can spam Mage's Fury (morphed into Endless Fury) as much as I like, that it does damage the monsters as well. But it sure as hell is going to take some time getting them done. That however doesn't mean I can't do it.

People work out from the assumption that there are only a handful of spells that kills things and only those handful of spells can be used. It is their own limitations then that hinders them, not the game.

As said, you have the tools, it's up to you to figure out how and where to use them. Oh and just as a last thing; I'm not using a cookie gutter build. I googled sorcerer, found one that was praised High Heavens and beyond. I tried it, didn't like it, I scrapped it. I'm using my own build now, works for me. It's not killing things as fast as others are, but I'm having fun with it.

Maybe what's wrong is that many people expect this to be WoW; 1 shot effective kills, move along the monsters and cut them down without any hindrance. Since that isn't working, they find a build that seemingly can do that, and so they automatically assume that is the only way to do things.

Alurria · May 2014

Lord_Hev wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Just a question, are we talking about certain classes that are having a difficult time with VR1 content? Or overall difficulty ratio? Maybe I missed it in the OP's post but what class is he/she? What skills? Did they get skill increases from reading all books they could find? I see people everyday running by bookshelves and not checking. I can't help but to think maybe the folks who are having trouble missed something vital on the rush to veteran rank. I'm not there yet myself but I'm trying to understand why some are having problems when others are not?

The classes are fine. The difficulty ratio is just absurd. This also has the unfortunate side-effect of making min-max builds superior and more efficient while making the average diverse build a handicap. Which in-turn makes certain classes stand-out more. Which in-turn limits play-styles for later content. Which in-turn leads to the exploitation of any hardcore builds that work flawlessly. Which in-turn leads to a marginal increase in more and more players learning of this build from other min-maxers and then copying the build. Which in-turn then leads to class nerfs.

The core of the issue in all this? The VR enemies are unbalanced and over-powered for their level and progression gap. The difficuly increase does not correlate with level increase. There are disparities among indiviual enemy stats. and there is a huge disparity between the stats of VR 1 enemies and fresh VR 1 players. And then the discrepancy in stats only gets worse as you progress.

This is also an example of fake difficulty. Albeit, more subtle and perhaps, unintentional. It is difficult to ascertain proper balance for the majority when their private testers min-max from knowing the game inside-out. It is why now, *suddenly* this has been brought to attention; As the amount of players reaching VR ranks increase. At least now, ZOS has reliable and consistent statistics to observe and work with.

thank you for that explanation. This is a problem if true...because as you say private testers have an advantage. Knowing how wide spread it is would be helpful. I don't mind hard but eye gouging hard is not for me.

karmamule · May 2014

For games it's always important I be enjoying myself. I'll put up with brief periods of grind or dissatisfaction, but if a game frequently makes me do things I don't find enjoyable then it's time to move on to another game that brings me more enjoyment.

I have to slog through enough crap at work, thank you very much, I don't need to come home and play a game that feels burdensome.

In other words: do what you ENJOY and if the disconnect between that and what the game is offering seems unbridgeable then move on.

I'm an alt-aholic that levels at the speed of coral growth, so my highest level character is still in his low 30s and I haven't had to confront this yet, but what I said above will guide how I react to things if it is at all similar.

hamon · May 2014

Selstad wrote: »

That works out from the assumption that the nail doesn't even budge when you throw anything at it but the hammer. That isn't the case here, as a sorcerer per example, I can spam Mage's Fury (morphed into Endless Fury) as much as I like, that it does damage the monsters as well. But it sure as hell is going to take some time getting them done. That however doesn't mean I can't do it.

People work out from the assumption that there are only a handful of spells that kills things and only those handful of spells can be used. It is their own limitations then that hinders them, not the game.

As said, you have the tools, it's up to you to figure out how and where to use them. Oh and just as a last thing; I'm not using a cookie gutter build. I googled sorcerer, found one that was praised High Heavens and beyond. I tried it, didn't like it, I scrapped it. I'm using my own build now, works for me. It's not killing things as fast as others are, but I'm having fun with it.

Maybe what's wrong is that many people expect this to be WoW; 1 shot effective kills, move along the monsters and cut them down without any hindrance. Since that isn't working, they find a build that seemingly can do that, and so they automatically assume that is the only way to do things.

it has nothing to do with it not being wow or any other game. its just that when you ramp up the difficulty artificially simply by adding more hp and having the mobs hit harder. then all of a sudden the weaker skills and weapons, builds become unviable. this isn't healthy. if you happen to be playing a strong class you wont see the problem , that was lucky for you . i dont see many dk's and sorcs complaining.. tho plenty feel its ok to come on and tell everyone else theres nothing wrong. its just not been tested properly clearly,, i,m in auridon now at vet 6 and i,m getting the discovery xp as if i was lvl 10.. clearly not intended. getting lvl 50 rewards at the end of vet 5 content. clearly not working.. the disparity between mobs and spike damage. a guar can suddenly one shot you a day or so after you killed molag bal.. thats not the way it should be.
and dont be fooled into believing this is cos its " end game" its not your still levelling and the levelling should be a progression thats similar to your own progression. not suddenly you feel weaker than at any point in the game. and start having to spend 20k a pop to try to find the weapons and build that will allow you to progress without 1k reapir bills every hour.

hamon · May 2014

Selstad wrote: »

That works out from the assumption that the nail doesn't even budge when you throw anything at it but the hammer. That isn't the case here, as a sorcerer per example, I can spam Mage's Fury (morphed into Endless Fury) as much as I like, that it does damage the monsters as well. But it sure as hell is going to take some time getting them done. That however doesn't mean I can't do it.

.

oh but it does. you simply have to kill mobs very fast in vet mode because they hit so hard. you cant surivve long with the damage they dish out. so unless you have A. enough dps Usually aoe dps to kill them fast before they kill you. or B CC enough to keep mobs busy while you pick them off . its no accident i see a huge upsurge in the amount of destro staff users , its now the only real option for ranged dps , the bow being virtually obsolete. This is a real shame cos it will lose something if it beomces world of staffcraft the impulse spamage. Diversity is good and its being crushed by this over tuning forcing folk to adopt weapons and builds they wouldn't otherwise choose.

Feidam · May 2014

I see a lot of people having problems due to their builds being so focused on any one thing. I have selected several skills that I don't even use on a daily basis. Why because in the harder content situations arise that having those skills has allowed me to adapt and overcome. The key is to not get locked in to any one mindset. I've found using multiple set ups the best. I've got damage, CC, Defense, healing. It all just depends on the situation at hand as to what is slotted on my bars.

williambbechtoldub17_ESO · May 2014

I have met players who refuse to use range attacks or those who only will use a bow. If you are this rigid, you will fail. Some fights require (or are MUCH easier) if you are able to switch. I play a NB in VR levels. I am not finding it too difficult at this point. Be willing to switch tactics up depending on the fight!

The bow is VERY strong when fighting a single enemy like a boss. When fighting a group of enemies switch to DW or 2H or something besides a bow. Adapt to the situation.

grizzbi · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

So all classes have atleast one built that is able to get the job done. Maybe it is not the build you would enjoy playing , BUT the CLASS got a build that puts it on par with the other classes.

What about diversity and character development?
Just remove all the other skills since they won't work later?

I've been able to figure myself the skills and builds which are optimal. But I don't want to play them. Because I prefer other skills. Should I quit?

I'll enjoy for a while the game as it is. But - to be honest - skill balance is terrible. I can spam 1 skill and be more efficient than using 5 or 10 of them. More dps, much more mana efficient, so that I can keep some magicka to heal myself if I'm in trouble.

I can replace 10 skills with 2. Do you call that an optimal build?

If you can't do many build with the available skills, it just shows one thing: the game is poorly balanced.

The OP is right: where is the diversity?

Kaladin4 · May 2014

williambbechtoldub17_ESO wrote: »

I have met players who refuse to use range attacks or those who only will use a bow. If you are this rigid, you will fail. Some fights require (or are MUCH easier) if you are able to switch. I play a NB in VR levels. I am not finding it too difficult at this point. Be willing to switch tactics up depending on the fight!

The bow is VERY strong when fighting a single enemy like a boss. When fighting a group of enemies switch to DW or 2H or something besides a bow. Adapt to the situation.

Yes but if your character is built to be malee then you shouldn't have to be ranged in order to do things. Or if you are an archer you shouldn't have to be a malee'r as well. (again I think most problems are from NB class) since most of the others can be what they want and do fairly well with it.

Im a v5 NB and honestly it does kinda suck to solo lvl.I can usually get past most things but there are quite a few deaths involved at times. I wanted to be a dual wield rogue sort, but at times I have to go archer for some fights. (usually harder single mob fights). Honestly if they wouldn't stack to many mobs together it wouldn't be that bad. 1-2 mobs isn't to bad. 3 however can suck. things hit hard. and at times I cant get off an opening stealth hit to take the first one down quickly if it doesn't go off like that then im probably going to die. heck there have been a few times when I have gotten it off an still something happens (skills not going threw correctly) and ill end up dead.(this needs to be fixed! asap)
My brother was an archer he hit v1 went half way through it and decided to make a sorc instead. not everyone wants every fight to be epic. Specially when your just getting through trash mobs.

Also id like to comment on the whole hammer thing someone brought up. the developers gave us 3 skill trees for our class so its not a hammer a tape measure and a wrench to hammer in the nail..(or it sure as heck shouldn't be) since they designed the 3 skill trees specifically for that class. so each one SHOULD be viable.

its more like a normal every day hammer a ball peen hammer and maybe a sledge hammer. each can be used to hammer the nail in but one or the other maybe better for the nail at hand.. each one is/should be viable though.