MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's not that great of a set right now, wouldn't bother, but the definition of the skills it effects are as stated:

"single target damage over time abilities"

So it has to be effected by both CP nodes for "Thaumaturge" and "Deadly Aim". This is a pretty good resource, showing the CP nodes that effect each skill you look up:

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills

The problematic ones I'm unsure of are AOE skills with Direct damage upfront, that apply dots. Aka, DK's Fiery Flame morphs or Bow's Acid Spray. These are technically AOE skills in application, but the applied dots are considered single target not aoe. The website doesn't show this.

AOE dots are ground based like Volley (bow), Wall of Elements (destruction staff) or applied on the caster like Blade Cloak (dual wield) or Mistform (vampire). Basically, any damage over time that sticks to your target should be single target, dots applied to yourself or on the ground are aoe.

Well, that site was great. Never knew how useful it was.

Now here's the problem.

Templar ray isn't affected by Maelstorm Dual Wield. Even though it has both buffs that you said.

Radiant Oppression does not get buffed from the Malestorm dual wield weapon. Now I am wondering why.

I was being vague for a reason. I wanted to see if there was a confirmed list and explanation as to why from ZoS and I missed an update patch note.

I used ray first on one enemy. Then flurried it. Then I turned to another enemy and used the beam. No change in damage from when I used it on the first.

It should have applied it. Unless the Templar Beam isn't considered....

kringled_1 wrote: »

Beam is not a dot. It's a channeled damage ability. When you stop channeling, the damage stops. Try your test with vampires bane.

Both Templar and Arcanist beams are channeled DoTs. Throw on Thaumaturge and watch their tooltip and damage go up. That won’t happen with direct damage.

Channel is not exclusive with DoT or direct. Everything channeled is still one of those two things. Jabs: channeled direct. Beam: channeled DoT.

kringled_1 wrote: »

I didn't know it was boosted by thaumaturge, but one could argue that that's more the thaumaturge classification being strange. Beam damage stops the instant you stop channeling, which isn't really that I think of as a damage over time effect. I realize that channeled isn't exclusive but other than "this one is boosted by thaumaturge and this one isn't", what is the functional difference between jabs and beam that would argue that one is a DoT and the other is not?
(Also, this same dichotomy exists with the sorc pets, where the Greater Storm Atronach is a dot, while the twilights very similar damage pulses are direct damage).

Jabs used to count as a DoT. It doesn’t anymore. They changed that in 2019 with no other explanation than that it had been a weird hybrid. Why Jabs became direct while Beam stayed DoT is not something they rationalized to us. But they confirmed that indirectly by making Arcanist beam a DoT - it behaves the same way as Templar beam but is AoE.

Meanwhile, Ballista is a channeled direct skill even though it keeps going when you swap away. The game is full of inconsistencies.

Templar beam also properly sets off dot sets like Azureblight but not direct damage sets. Jabs was fixed so it doesn’t proc Azureblight, since it’s direct now. (It took them years to fix it, but they finally did.)

@Redguards_Revenge

Cruel Flurry definitely affects Templar beam but it seems to buff only the last tick, which strikes me as a very bad bug.

I just reconstructed three items for a simple test on PTS: two blue Cruel Flurry swords and one blue Rampaging Slash sword to break the set while keeping the other factors identical (traits, glyphs, etc.). Non-perfected, so there wouldn't be any change for that bonus.

Naked template character, no slotted CP, no relevant passives (Illuminate, Balanced Warrior), and only Flurry (base morph) and Radiant Oppression slotted.

I cast Flurry and then Beam with one pair and then changed out the off-hand Rampaging Slash sword for Cruel Flurry to make the set active.

With the broken set (1 Cruel Flurry, 1 Rampaging Slash), I got 1501 for each tick of beam after casting Flurry. (No Sundered)
I got those same results using the full Cruel Flurry set without casting Flurry first, to ensure the setups were otherwise identical. (They are.)

With the full set (2 Cruel Flurry) and casting Flurry first, I got 1501 for the first two ticks and 2008 for the third. (Again no Sundered.)

The dummy was above 99% for all of that, so there was no issue with any execute damage. It looks like the buff only applies to the third tick, even though I waited until I could see the Cruel Flurry buff icon appear before starting to channel beam.

The damage checks out for the third tick:

The coefficient for each tick of Radiant Oppression, according to UESP, is: 0.047829 MaxStat + 0.50178 MaxDamage - 2.8109

My max stam (higher than max mag) is a constant 21,014, so it contributes 1005 to the tooltip damage.

My weapon/spell damage stat is 2706: 2706 * 0.50178 = 1357 (rounded down from 1357.82)

The tooltip for each tick is 1005 + 1357 - 2.8109 = 2359, giving a total theoretical tooltip of 7077. (Mine is 7080 in game, so the formula is just about correct.)

A 2359 tooltip, when applied to a dummy with 18,200 armor (for 18.2k/50k = 36.3% mitigation), should give 1500 damage, which lines up with the 1501 I'm observing per tick without Cruel Flurry applying.

With Cruel Flurry, I get 1592 added to the 2706 above for a total of 4298 weapon/spell damage that should be used for Beam. That raises the tooltip per tick to 1005 (from max stam) + 2156 (from weapon/spell damage) - 2.8109 = 3158.

The overall tooltip for beam (which includes 3 ticks) should therefore be 9474, which is exactly what I see when I cast Flurry and look at my tooltip for beam.

Each tick should have 3158 * 0.636 = 2008 land, but only the third one sees that higher value.

The fact that the tooltip increases with Cruel Flurry and the fact that the third tick increases exactly as expected suggests that beam IS properly on the list of single-target DoTs affected. The problem is with the implementation in that the first two ticks do not get this buff for some reason.

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's not that great of a set right now, wouldn't bother, but the definition of the skills it effects are as stated:

"single target damage over time abilities"

So it has to be effected by both CP nodes for "Thaumaturge" and "Deadly Aim". This is a pretty good resource, showing the CP nodes that effect each skill you look up:

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills

The problematic ones I'm unsure of are AOE skills with Direct damage upfront, that apply dots. Aka, DK's Fiery Flame morphs or Bow's Acid Spray. These are technically AOE skills in application, but the applied dots are considered single target not aoe. The website doesn't show this.

AOE dots are ground based like Volley (bow), Wall of Elements (destruction staff) or applied on the caster like Blade Cloak (dual wield) or Mistform (vampire). Basically, any damage over time that sticks to your target should be single target, dots applied to yourself or on the ground are aoe.

Well, that site was great. Never knew how useful it was.

Now here's the problem.

Templar ray isn't affected by Maelstorm Dual Wield. Even though it has both buffs that you said.

Radiant Oppression does not get buffed from the Malestorm dual wield weapon. Now I am wondering why.

I was being vague for a reason. I wanted to see if there was a confirmed list and explanation as to why from ZoS and I missed an update patch note.

I used ray first on one enemy. Then flurried it. Then I turned to another enemy and used the beam. No change in damage from when I used it on the first.

It should have applied it. Unless the Templar Beam isn't considered....

Templar beam is considered a channel ability, not a single-target dot, which is different and why the set does not work on it.