It does hurt when you need 3/3 codices for the rarer ones.

I'm up to 9 Moons-Blessed Ceremonial pools from leads. I just have one character who lives in Moonlit Cove and loots the urns near the entrance and that first balcony, then runs to the entrance and logs off. It takes 1-2 minutes, so I treat it just like feeding that character's horse or doing daily writs. You could probably have two characters and swap back and forth, but I would find that boring. Running through the whole delve would be incredibly time-inefficient because of how spaced-out the other urns are. We need to optimize pools-per-minute.

I started that back when the lead dropped ONLY in Moonlit Cove, so I'm not sure if there's a denser urn spot now, but they might have a higher droprate from the Moonlit Cove source anyway.

If only we could "meditate" on a certain lead to help the drop chance. They could add some new terribly expensive crafting recipe for it lol.

I am having this happen with the last lead for the left-handed Aegis belt - the one you get from jewelry crafting - I don't mind doing these for it - as long as its not broken. How do you tell if its broken or not.

I can not get the lead for Moras whispers in Treasure Chests inside the Vile Manse Public Dungeon. Running it over and over. It’s like dead man’s hallow all over again. What a nightmare that lead was.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It does hurt when you need 3/3 codices for the rarer ones.

I'm up to 9 Moons-Blessed Ceremonial pools from leads. I just have one character who lives in Moonlit Cove and loots the urns near the entrance and that first balcony, then runs to the entrance and logs off. It takes 1-2 minutes, so I treat it just like feeding that character's horse or doing daily writs. You could probably have two characters and swap back and forth, but I would find that boring. Running through the whole delve would be incredibly time-inefficient because of how spaced-out the other urns are. We need to optimize pools-per-minute.

I started that back when the lead dropped ONLY in Moonlit Cove, so I'm not sure if there's a denser urn spot now, but they might have a higher droprate from the Moonlit Cove source anyway.

If only we could "meditate" on a certain lead to help the drop chance. They could add some new terribly expensive crafting recipe for it lol.

Bleh I guess I can re-park a couple of mules in MC. It's just so mind-numbingly boring and not what I want to spend any playtime on anymore. I also hate logging in/out, it takes forever with the load screens.

That delve is beautiful, even the outside entrance of it is one of my favorite areas in the game. But I'm so tired of it now, it's sad It's the most urn-dense spot, though South Guard Ruins has quite a few in the rectangular structure and its basement, pretty close together and easy to run through.

Roztlin45 wrote: »

I can not get the lead for Moras whispers in Treasure Chests inside the Vile Manse Public Dungeon. Running it over and over. It’s like dead man’s hallow all over again. What a nightmare that lead was.

Oh that's another one... I stopped trying. Luckily the mythic isn't better than ones I currently use so it just doesn't exist for me.

Ezhh wrote: »

I have never been super into housing, but some time back had an idea and needed the Apocryphal Well for it. I kind of got excited about doing some housing for the first time.

Almost 40 maps later and I still have only one of the three leads required. I am not excited about it anymore.

Yeah this really sucks I also didn't even want it until I realized it cobbles really well with something in my build. I'd like to be able to buy more for future builds but I guess that's not happening.

In both of your cases, it could've led to fun in the game, with a new armor or housing. But instead we're stuck with an unrewarding grind and bad taste left over.

I'm struggling to assemble a second apocryphal well myself.

The first well was on par with things like ancestral motifs, one lead every 10 maps on average? although I seem to remember waiting until they fixed the drop of these leads as originally there was an issue with them.

However no further leads will drop. As others have mentioned having done already I too used many maps during the chapter event when they were more plentiful and I have used 20-25 that I purchased 'sensibly priced' since.

Not a single lead for that antiquity.

I did complete the codex for one of the fossils and the mushroom classification book (and I am on 2/3 on the other fossils and the stand) and I could build a palace out of tribunal windows (which I have now stopped digging out) but no wells for me.

Said that given that they fixed the drop of these leads on update 39 and have not been any further comments since I presume that this is in fact how they want it to behave.

It took 187 gryphons (which left 156 instances of loot behind) to get the 2nd sunbird feather , so maybe it will be that number of treasure maps per lead for this antiquity too.

Just to add, my issues with the well are trying for my first drop of it. It seems my attempts to get the first are like other people's attempts to get a second...

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DON'T DO THIS!!!

I learned the hard way. I tried to keep my codex completely full for the Ancestral Bretons when I was going for those and the Belts wouldn't drop, and then I got a nice run of 40+ maps with no leads at all.

Evidently the way it works is it rolls the lead when you dig up the chest. If you don't have it in your log, you get that lead. If you do, you just don't get squat. Dig them up as you go so you can at least sell the dupes instead of getting nothing for your effort. It does not curate your chances by having other leads in your log, it just ensures you get absolutely nothing unless it's the one you need.

Ahh I wondered about this! I tried a few runs where I held all of the other Apocrypha fossils and other items without digging them up (including that damned window) and it seemed like absolutely nothing was dropping for about a dozen or more maps when I did that - certainly not the Well. So I just dug them up.

I wish we didn't have to guess and do weird little rituals like this on top of the bad RNG.

Also: I saw posts elsewhere that some people who've been tracking were at 700 and 900+ maps for second and third leads of the Well. on PCNA that's easily OVER 30 MILLION gold at the cheapest (maps right now are 35,000 at lowest). That's ridiculous; among the top most expensive items. That makes me want to quit and save that gold for crown purchases or whatever. (Which, again, if they intended to introduce a gold sink, then I guess this is unfortunately effective.)

MoonPile wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It does hurt when you need 3/3 codices for the rarer ones.

I'm up to 9 Moons-Blessed Ceremonial pools from leads. I just have one character who lives in Moonlit Cove and loots the urns near the entrance and that first balcony, then runs to the entrance and logs off. It takes 1-2 minutes, so I treat it just like feeding that character's horse or doing daily writs. You could probably have two characters and swap back and forth, but I would find that boring. Running through the whole delve would be incredibly time-inefficient because of how spaced-out the other urns are. We need to optimize pools-per-minute.

I started that back when the lead dropped ONLY in Moonlit Cove, so I'm not sure if there's a denser urn spot now, but they might have a higher droprate from the Moonlit Cove source anyway.

If only we could "meditate" on a certain lead to help the drop chance. They could add some new terribly expensive crafting recipe for it lol.

Bleh I guess I can re-park a couple of mules in MC. It's just so mind-numbingly boring and not what I want to spend any playtime on anymore. I also hate logging in/out, it takes forever with the load screens.

That delve is beautiful, even the outside entrance of it is one of my favorite areas in the game. But I'm so tired of it now, it's sad It's the most urn-dense spot, though South Guard Ruins has quite a few in the rectangular structure and its basement, pretty close together and easy to run through.

IMO, don't log in/out over and over! Just stop by on that char when you start or stop playing for the day, or maybe when you switch chars anyway. The pools will come.

Unless someone's in a rush for pool leads, a quick intermittent farm is less mentally draining and just as efficient as far as pools-per-minute. Enjoy life.

MoonPile wrote: »

Why is it like this? If I had to guess, maybe to keep people returning to do these.

Quite true. The sad story is that every MMO does this and they all believes this actually works. And to an extend, it does and it's fine as far as that goes. People need goals to play a game. And not hitting your goal on your first try is what keeps players trying and playing. Playing generates money which is what every game publisher and creator are after.

Thing is, what we as a player find an acceptable grind is usually not what the game's creators consider acceptable. A 1 in 100 drop chance might sound completely acceptable on paper, but for a single player it might take several seasons to get such an item. I'm sure we all remember a certain lead drop in Shadowfen that was all but unobtainable for most players for a long time. Even when people gave the lead the finger and decided to wait for the hype to cool down it still could take ages to get it.

And I agree something should be done about things like this. Sure, you can't fix the hype around a new shiny object. But I'm not convinced curating everything like they did with the dungeons is the answer either. Unless you're the more fanatic kind of player, you'll simply run out of content too soon, which is sparse enough as it is.

Is creating a point at which the drop rate for a particular lead starts to increase then the answer like @MidniteOwl1913 says? I'm not entirely convinced that'll work either because it won't solve the problems you already have with regular curated items. It just takes a bit longer than a completely curated system. And whatever increased rate they'd set it at, players will never find it high enough anyway.

They hoped to create some long lasting content with Tales of Tribute and the endless archive, but the reception is not nearly as good as they had expected. It makes sense as they treat it like any other part of the game and added the same (if not worse) type of grind behind it.

It's a tough problem to solve and I'm not sure they will want to solve it. The yearly DLC playthrough is only about a week's worth of PvE content if you don't rush it. That's not counting any leads and stuff. Just the questing and storyline portion of it. Then all that's left are the achievements and the leads. They have to try and keep players playing and they have nothing else to offer.

Ch3mical_92 wrote: »

I've been farming the Dov Rha heels-lead in sunspire for 18(!) months now and it drives me to the edge of my sanity. Its the very last drop I'd need for a complete antiquity codex. Nobody tell me that this lead aint bugged. I've done hundreds and hundreds of sunspire runs, its just an awful grind and I really cant stand it anymore

You have my sympathy. I've never kept at any one lead that long, but I can understand the drive to get it done.

It's 2024 and I still don't have the 3rd lead to complete the codex for Moon-Blessed Ceremonial Pool. Using characters who have full zone achievements and those without - no difference, still no lead.

It's hard to muster enthusiasm to complete the codex or even get the 1st lead for a bunch of antiquities in Telvanni/ Peninsula and Apocrypha. A balance between effort and time invested and achievements/satisfaction would be nice, appreciated even.

I wish the Devs would revisit the unnecessary layers of RNG and over-use of Treasure Maps and Psijic Portals. Might make the Antiquities System fun again instead of going further down the burdensome track.

Veryamedliel wrote: »

They have to try and keep players playing and they have nothing else to offer.

Ouch While I kind of doubt anyone from ZOS would read this, I'll say anyway: I would (and do) keep logging in regardless, because getting the antiquities is not my reason to play - my housing builds are. Getting the item unlocked faster would allow players like me get to back to what we enjoy and actually log in for: using them to create. That creation process will keep me logging in for weeks or months. It's just that if I have to substitute an impossible item, it was a waste of time and sours the whole experience.

It seems like, rather than a lack of offerings, there's sometimes a lack of understanding around rewards vs content and playstyles. A mismatch between what different groups of players actually do and enjoy, vs the bound rewards for those actions. Like you said: it can take multiple seasons to get one lead. That's unrealistic for anyone participating in community housing events. And builders need multiples. Essentially, "the street finds its own uses for things"... but ZOS sometimes doesn't seem so attuned to the street. But that is potentially a really long tangent, so I'll drop it here.

Anifaas wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Same with the Trifold Mirror of Alternatives, 2nd lead will not drop from Nightmare after dozens of times. I'm sick of fighting that thing.

Farming this has put me off the whole game. I've killed that world boss close to a hundred times since November and it never gets better. It is a miserable, slow fight that most people do not seem interested in. The zone is almost always dead. It reminds me of the dungeon queuing, which, similarly, has low participation for anything remotely challenging. Want to do Fungal Grotto: no problem. Dance party at the wayshrine? We got you fam. Challenging world boss or veteran content: crickets.

Yeah it's been pretty dead since after the event. I'm sure people are fatigued from it. I should have tried for a second mirror back then but didn't think to. I also noticed that sometimes people don't know to get the shield-channeling guys down and keep trying to fight Nightmare itself while it's shielded it can be frustrating.

Leads should be tradeable.