As long as none of these changes are for pvp, sure

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

20 seconds of full cc immunity without the snare penalty would be insanely OP, in both PVP and PVE

honestly that makes sense in the case where a dps player is using it so that's a fair point. but i still think the 6 seconds should be removed for the entirety of the skill time so its viable for tanks. without block I die so fast in pvp that immunity makes sense for a tank. If a meta DPS player can take out a squad on their own. a tank should be able to tank a squad in that same sense. i feel like that would be balance. also considering the fact that the block potency only last for that 6 seconds. (although after using the skill it says 5 seconds in its indicator)

Soarora wrote: »

The skill is viable for tanks. Actually it's downright necessary for ERE HM last boss. It's just niche use.

Im speaking in the meta. there are significantly better "major resolve" skills with zero drawbacks. Templar can literally restore stamina while blocking while gaining major resolve and healing that last 20 secs. this skill in GH would destroy your resources so fast because of the 6 seconds that you probably are more useful not being present. and with everyone and their granny having major forms of CC that for some reason "tanks" dont have passive resistances against i think its fair to question skills like this. Major dmg buffs major breaches major status effect chance increases all exist for dps players and last upwards of 1-2 mins of play and some dont even cost resources and do DOT at the same time. This skill requires 5 pieces of heavy armor to even be slotted so your getting very little stat armor line boosts that would make this worth getting outside of a tank and maybe a supportive role.

Soarora wrote: »

Niche use is better than no use. It’s used because of the block mitigation, no other reason as far as I know. I've never had any issue with the slow because cases where you'd need that amount of block mitigation, you aren't moving anyways.

That's not to say the skill can't be made better, but I think there's better uses of development time right now. Like making skills that straight up aren't ever used, usable.

I would agree only if there wasnt so much anti-tank abilities out there. The reality is that unblockable CC and powerful skills that ignore resistance all exist and can be utilized very cheaply in terms of resources. and breakfree aint cheap for tanks. if i cant move while blocking or regain resources that are vital im not very useful. We need stand still support very badly. I say this because as a permablock i cant kill anything for the most part in GH. i can block draw attention and disrupt but when every 5 secs i need to use breakfree through my block, im out of resources after 2 -3 CC skills. Damage maybe capped but you have crit dmg very easily accessed for most dps classes. plus major dmg buffs minor dmg buffs and breaches. For defense you have major and minor resolve and block. DPS have pierce capabilites available against you and we are capped at 33k resist and 73% block mitigation, and the cost of block is hefty, you have to utilize the majority of your enchants just to make block viable.
Im a Tank main my sets are very much well put together and legendary, But im being out sustained by DPS players way to much for me to just stay quiet by how unbalanced the Roles are in game.

Rektadon wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Niche use is better than no use. It’s used because of the block mitigation, no other reason as far as I know. I've never had any issue with the slow because cases where you'd need that amount of block mitigation, you aren't moving anyways.

That's not to say the skill can't be made better, but I think there's better uses of development time right now. Like making skills that straight up aren't ever used, usable.

I would agree only if there wasnt so much anti-tank abilities out there. The reality is that unblockable CC and powerful skills that ignore resistance all exist and can be utilized very cheaply in terms of resources. and breakfree aint cheap for tanks. if i cant move while blocking or regain resources that are vital im not very useful. We need stand still support very badly. I say this because as a permablock i cant kill anything for the most part in GH. i can block draw attention and disrupt but when every 5 secs i need to use breakfree through my block, im out of resources after 2 -3 CC skills. Damage maybe capped but you have crit dmg very easily accessed for most dps classes. plus major dmg buffs minor dmg buffs and breaches. For defense you have major and minor resolve and block. DPS have pierce capabilites available against you and we are capped at 33k resist and 73% block mitigation, and the cost of block is hefty, you have to utilize the majority of your enchants just to make block viable.
Im a Tank main my sets are very much well put together and legendary, But im being out sustained by DPS players way to much for me to just stay quiet by how unbalanced the Roles are in game.

Speaking in PvP terms, there aren't enough anti-tank abilities. New Oblivion damage sources get nerfed before they ever hit live, and the old sources of Oblivion damage are only decent at their job. Heal Absorption is only found from ~3 sources, and none of them are usable.

Changing the CC immunity to 20 seconds would flat out break PvP. No thank you.

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

theres already too much tank meta in pvp as is, theres plenty of ways already to build a virtually unkillable tank without this skill in pvp, that the only way you would die is when you have a full zerg on you

if it takes 12+ people (including some using siege) to kill 1 player, that is incredibly unbalanced for pvp in my opinion

This is already the case in pvp accept they are hybrid dps players utilizing meta builds they googled. the difference is that a pure tank isnt supposed to be killed thats point of tank. 1 dps that can kill 12 players in a combo is a good dps but for some reason 1 tank that can hold off 12 players attacking isnt a balanced tank? thats ridiculous.

The only time 1 player can kill 12 in a single combo is if the 12 were either completely unaware or completely unprepared - likely both.

Yes, tanks should exist, but asking for 20 seconds of CC immunity on a skill is asinine. Stunning is the only counter against those tanks, and you're asking for ZOS to just remove the counterplay entirely. Hardly fair.

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

theres already too much tank meta in pvp as is, theres plenty of ways already to build a virtually unkillable tank without this skill in pvp, that the only way you would die is when you have a full zerg on you

if it takes 12+ people (including some using siege) to kill 1 player, that is incredibly unbalanced for pvp in my opinion

This is already the case in pvp accept they are hybrid dps players utilizing meta builds they googled. the difference is that a pure tank isnt supposed to be killed thats point of tank. 1 dps that can kill 12 players in a combo is a good dps but for some reason 1 tank that can hold off 12 players attacking isnt a balanced tank? thats ridiculous.

if i run into people i cant kill, i just stop attacking and ignore them lol, you could be following me around or whatnot for all i care, but i wont bother attacking a tank except to keep ulti gen lol

its a pure waste of time for the attacking player perspective

im not dismissing that the idea of the tank being able to survive is the problem, but as an attacking player, i take it as being "trolly" in a sense because your not dying and literally just wasting my time, as your not a threat offensively either

i would agree with camerabeard that there is not enough anti-tank stuff in the game, and the available anti tank stuff is extremely ineffective

im just saying ive seen a tank stand there and take a beating from 20 players before with their health barely moving, or if it gets low they heal back up with a burst heal

those perma block tanks will eventually die when they run out of resources if theres enough people hitting them (as block cost can trigger up to 4x per second), dot dmg is also not blockable, but the dmg on dots right now is low and slow enough that it hardly poses a threat

i get that if your trying to support your group by distracting people, so many people get tunnel vision attacking a tank sometimes and then a friend comes in to bomb them, the unkillable tanks also can be effective running around burning enemy siege to allow allies to push out of a keep, so i get the strategy in that, but if your just trying to stand there and take a beating with no allies around, yeah your going to die eventually, you cant sustain that forever

the most effective "troll tanks" that i usually see are ones that also have a few allies (1-2 NB, usually at least one of them is wearing cryptcannon mythic to give the tank ult to sustain)

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

theres already too much tank meta in pvp as is, theres plenty of ways already to build a virtually unkillable tank without this skill in pvp, that the only way you would die is when you have a full zerg on you

if it takes 12+ people (including some using siege) to kill 1 player, that is incredibly unbalanced for pvp in my opinion

This is already the case in pvp accept they are hybrid dps players utilizing meta builds they googled. the difference is that a pure tank isnt supposed to be killed thats point of tank. 1 dps that can kill 12 players in a combo is a good dps but for some reason 1 tank that can hold off 12 players attacking isnt a balanced tank? thats ridiculous.

if i run into people i cant kill, i just stop attacking and ignore them lol, you could be following me around or whatnot for all i care, but i wont bother attacking a tank except to keep ulti gen lol

its a pure waste of time for the attacking player perspective

im not dismissing that the idea of the tank being able to survive is the problem, but as an attacking player, i take it as being "trolly" in a sense because your not dying and literally just wasting my time, as your not a threat offensively either

i would agree with camerabeard that there is not enough anti-tank stuff in the game, and the available anti tank stuff is extremely ineffective

I completely agree with you there. when i do play dps and im against a tank i cant kill then i move on, because it is a waste of resources to focus but that's pure logic and game play. i dont believe its trolly because as that tank there are plenty of ways to be useful in pvp utilizing a disruptive play style and forcing resources so my dps can do their job. but i disagree. you have crit buffs attack buffs breaches, defiles CC snares. tanks have very little resource recovery any thing that makes us dodge roll or breakfree already hits our resources significantly. And again im talking about against massive groups of meta players in GH and IC not your BG runs where tanks are actually useful(outside of death match)

Go to Alessia Bridge during prime-time. Seriously - you'll almost certainly find a tank player that's there most weekends and they are able to easily survive indefinitely against anything less than a full-on ball-group.

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im just saying ive seen a tank stand there and take a beating from 20 players before with their health barely moving, or if it gets low they heal back up with a burst heal

those perma block tanks will eventually die when they run out of resources if theres enough people hitting them (as block cost can trigger up to 4x per second), dot dmg is also not blockable, but the dmg on dots right now is low and slow enough that it hardly poses a threat

i get that if your trying to support your group by distracting people, so many people get tunnel vision attacking a tank sometimes and then a friend comes in to bomb them, the unkillable tanks also can be effective running around burning enemy siege to allow allies to push out of a keep, so i get the strategy in that, but if your just trying to stand there and take a beating with no allies around, yeah your going to die eventually, you cant sustain that forever

the most effective "troll tanks" that i usually see are ones that also have a few allies (1-2 NB, usually at least one of them is wearing cryptcannon mythic to give the tank ult to sustain)

yes, i am a permablock tank and in BG and scenerios where peoples skills are purely ranged dmg or sneak dmg i can stand and take quite a bit. but one person on sorc spams teleport and im out of resources and dead very quickly and my set means nothing and max resistance means nothing. where as max pen builds will always penetrate at max. theres no pen resistance stats that i can build on theres no pen resistance buffs i can utilize. I agree with you there are trolls but theres trolls in dps as well and in heals as well. that doesnt mean we should outclass dps and outclass healers simply because some people dont want to play the the pvp mode correctly. You see it all the time in BG when its chaos ball and half the players are playing death match. Its annoying and most of them at 50+ know how to play but they are just trolling.

penetration is the direct counter to armor, thats why theres no resistance to it, your counter is get more armor so penetration/debuffs dont affect you, most tanks end up running about 40k to be able to ignore breach debuffs

thats also why people use immovable pots as a block tank, to prevent certain cc (fossilize, streak, etc) which are not blockable

and to clarify, i call tanks trolly because they dont die, not because they are actual trolls, as a offense oriented player, players that dont die are "trolly"/annoying

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Rektadon wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im just saying ive seen a tank stand there and take a beating from 20 players before with their health barely moving, or if it gets low they heal back up with a burst heal

those perma block tanks will eventually die when they run out of resources if theres enough people hitting them (as block cost can trigger up to 4x per second), dot dmg is also not blockable, but the dmg on dots right now is low and slow enough that it hardly poses a threat

i get that if your trying to support your group by distracting people, so many people get tunnel vision attacking a tank sometimes and then a friend comes in to bomb them, the unkillable tanks also can be effective running around burning enemy siege to allow allies to push out of a keep, so i get the strategy in that, but if your just trying to stand there and take a beating with no allies around, yeah your going to die eventually, you cant sustain that forever

the most effective "troll tanks" that i usually see are ones that also have a few allies (1-2 NB, usually at least one of them is wearing cryptcannon mythic to give the tank ult to sustain)

yes, i am a permablock tank and in BG and scenerios where peoples skills are purely ranged dmg or sneak dmg i can stand and take quite a bit. but one person on sorc spams teleport and im out of resources and dead very quickly and my set means nothing and max resistance means nothing. where as max pen builds will always penetrate at max. theres no pen resistance stats that i can build on theres no pen resistance buffs i can utilize. I agree with you there are trolls but theres trolls in dps as well and in heals as well. that doesnt mean we should outclass dps and outclass healers simply because some people dont want to play the the pvp mode correctly. You see it all the time in BG when its chaos ball and half the players are playing death match. Its annoying and most of them at 50+ know how to play but they are just trolling.

penetration is the direct counter to armor, thats why theres no resistance to it, your counter is get more armor so penetration/debuffs dont affect you, most tanks end up running about 40k to be able to ignore breach debuffs

thats also why people use immovable pots as a block tank, to prevent certain cc (fossilize, streak, etc) which are not blockable

and to clarify, i call tanks trolly because they dont die, not because they are actual trolls, as a offense oriented player, players that dont die are "trolly"/annoying

I dont disagree with you in that point of pen. and i could understand having to give that up defenses in order to bring dmg into the mix. but that problem is that the point of pure defense is the counter that dmg. and if I'm going to sacrifice any dmg out put for resistance there should be reward thats on par with the reward of dps. BUT i didnt even think about running resistance higher than cap to ofset that penetration. thats a good idea if i can figure out how how to keep my permablock traits.