If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns

WitchyKiki · December 2023

Possibly an unpopular opinion: I have played both on console and PC for roughly 7 years, and throughout the years the cash shop has gotten progressively worse in terms of cool items being locked behind crates and gems. Its become so bad, that I haven't purchased crowns in 3 years. I was looking forward to spending on the holiday sale in order to get crowns for the year, but then I realized... everything I want is behind crates and I don't care to play crate roulette with real life money. So no crowns for me this year... again.

Its bad enough that whatever crates I receive as a gift (thank you for the ones this month!) just don't give me anything I like, and the gem conversion has been reduced to almost nothing. I find myself constantly spending on cash shops for other MMO's/Games I play, so its not like I don't have the budget... I just wish I could purchase crowns and get the items that I do want, not loot crates.

This is just feedback because I love ESO, and I want to invest more on the game as I used to, but I'm constantly disappointed with the cash shop because so much of it is being stuffed behind loot crates. At this stage, I just save up my monthly crowns for utilities, but in terms of actually purchasing items... Theres nothing I want that is accessible.

Note: Incase this becomes a topic, I do the endeavors and save them. It isn't about that, its about having the ability to just spend on a game I love while getting the things that I want.

dragonlord500 · December 2023

The only issue I have with crown crates is that it takes a very long time for the crates to cycle through them until I get the crown crate I want.

Zos may have given us 2 returning crown crates in November and 3 in December but its believed by the community that this was a special occasion because it was the end to the gifting crisis. The community also believes they will go right back to the normal single return crates starting in a few days from now.

WitchyKiki · December 2023

dragonlord500 wrote: »

The only issue I have with crown crates is that it takes a very long time for the crates to cycle through them until I get the crown crate I want.

Zos may have given us 2 returning crown crates in November and 3 in December but its believed by the community that this was a special occasion because it was the end to the gifting crisis. The community also believes they will go right back to the normal single return crates starting in a few days from now.

I suppose the only thing I have left to look forward to is purchasing houses and furnishing packs if I'm to spend on crowns.

That snow globe home has always caught my eye.

BloodWolfe · December 2023

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Possibly an unpopular opinion: I have played both on console and PC for roughly 7 years, and throughout the years the cash shop has gotten progressively worse in terms of cool items being locked behind crates and gems. Its become so bad, that I haven't purchased crowns in 3 years. I was looking forward to spending on the holiday sale in order to get crowns for the year, but then I realized... everything I want is behind crates and I don't care to play crate roulette with real life money. So no crowns for me this year... again.

Its bad enough that whatever crates I receive as a gift (thank you for the ones this month!) just don't give me anything I like, and the gem conversion has been reduced to almost nothing. I find myself constantly spending on cash shops for other MMO's/Games I play, so its not like I don't have the budget... I just wish I could purchase crowns and get the items that I do want, not loot crates.

This is just feedback because I love ESO, and I want to invest more on the game as I used to, but I'm constantly disappointed with the cash shop because so much of it is being stuffed behind loot crates. At this stage, I just save up my monthly crowns for utilities, but in terms of actually purchasing items... Theres nothing I want that is accessible.

Note: Incase this becomes a topic, I do the endeavors and save them. It isn't about that, its about having the ability to just spend on a game I love while getting the things that I want.

I agree with you. [snip]. In a AAA games costing full price this is ridiculous. I'm happy to spend extra on items I like since I know development costs money, but I buy very few crowns because the good stuff goes into the crates and I refuse to buy and support crates.

If gem conversion was at least 5x higher than it is, then MAYBE I would consider a few here and there but even that would be unlikley since I hate these crates and this practice in general. If all these items went into the cash shop to buy without gambling then I'd have easily spent a crap ton more money on buying crowns than I have, especially in the last 3-4 years which has been very little crowns outside the ones I get when I do renew my sub to ESO+ for a month or 2 at a time maybe only a handful of times through the year.

I guess they just don't want to take your money or my money lol. It works for other companies since it leaves me more money to buy plenty of other games instead. Your loss ZOS, not mine.

[edited for bashing]

Danikat · December 2023

I agree. I do still buy crowns occasionally but since so many new things shifted to being in crates and they stopped doing zone/story DLC I've bought a lot less than I used to.

In a way I suppose that's good, because it means the game is cheaper and it's not like ZOS need my money, but it still seems a shame.

reazea · December 2023

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Possibly an unpopular opinion: I have played both on console and PC for roughly 7 years, and throughout the years the cash shop has gotten progressively worse in terms of cool items being locked behind crates and gems. Its become so bad, that I haven't purchased crowns in 3 years. I was looking forward to spending on the holiday sale in order to get crowns for the year, but then I realized... everything I want is behind crates and I don't care to play crate roulette with real life money. So no crowns for me this year... again.

Its bad enough that whatever crates I receive as a gift (thank you for the ones this month!) just don't give me anything I like, and the gem conversion has been reduced to almost nothing. I find myself constantly spending on cash shops for other MMO's/Games I play, so its not like I don't have the budget... I just wish I could purchase crowns and get the items that I do want, not loot crates.

This is just feedback because I love ESO, and I want to invest more on the game as I used to, but I'm constantly disappointed with the cash shop because so much of it is being stuffed behind loot crates. At this stage, I just save up my monthly crowns for utilities, but in terms of actually purchasing items... Theres nothing I want that is accessible.

Note: Incase this becomes a topic, I do the endeavors and save them. It isn't about that, its about having the ability to just spend on a game I love while getting the things that I want.

I couldn't agree more. But they throw that great splash screen at us every time we log on and at 10am every day to show their appreciation.

WitchyKiki · December 2023

BloodWolfe wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Possibly an unpopular opinion: I have played both on console and PC for roughly 7 years, and throughout the years the cash shop has gotten progressively worse in terms of cool items being locked behind crates and gems. Its become so bad, that I haven't purchased crowns in 3 years. I was looking forward to spending on the holiday sale in order to get crowns for the year, but then I realized... everything I want is behind crates and I don't care to play crate roulette with real life money. So no crowns for me this year... again.

Its bad enough that whatever crates I receive as a gift (thank you for the ones this month!) just don't give me anything I like, and the gem conversion has been reduced to almost nothing. I find myself constantly spending on cash shops for other MMO's/Games I play, so its not like I don't have the budget... I just wish I could purchase crowns and get the items that I do want, not loot crates.

This is just feedback because I love ESO, and I want to invest more on the game as I used to, but I'm constantly disappointed with the cash shop because so much of it is being stuffed behind loot crates. At this stage, I just save up my monthly crowns for utilities, but in terms of actually purchasing items... Theres nothing I want that is accessible.

Note: Incase this becomes a topic, I do the endeavors and save them. It isn't about that, its about having the ability to just spend on a game I love while getting the things that I want.

I agree with you. [snip]. In a AAA games costing full price this is ridiculous. I'm happy to spend extra on items I like since I know development costs money, but I buy very few crowns because the good stuff goes into the crates and I refuse to buy and support crates.

If gem conversion was at least 5x higher than it is, then MAYBE I would consider a few here and there but even that would be unlikley since I hate these crates and this practice in general. If all these items went into the cash shop to buy without gambling then I'd have easily spent a crap ton more money on buying crowns than I have, especially in the last 3-4 years which has been very little crowns outside the ones I get when I do renew my sub to ESO+ for a month or 2 at a time maybe only a handful of times through the year.

I guess they just don't want to take your money or my money lol. It works for other companies since it leaves me more money to buy plenty of other games instead. Your loss ZOS, not mine.

I really do wish I could buy things straight off the crown store and enjoy them in game, just like I do with other games I play. I do get my moneys worth with my sub, and sub simply for the craft bag and to support the game so the crowns are an added bonus. I spend a good chunk of time on this game as it is, would just love to throw more money at it.

[edited to remove quote]

Mesite · December 2023

My arcanist lives a life of stoicism so doesn't spend money, only accepting items that life provides for free or that he earns with a little work (tickets, gold or seals of endeavour).

Although he's going to sub at the end of January so he'll get some crowns to spend.

SaffronCitrusflower · December 2023

We should be able to buy anything that appears in crown crates directly with crowns. Or, ZOS should increase drop rates of decent items in crates by at least a factor of 10. RNG is so low for something decent from crown crates it defeats the purpose of ever buying crates in the first place.

BenTSG · January 4

I will add my support to this to show it, though I can't see ZoS changing this plan.

I've seen a number of times, cool items inside crates I would pay for, but I am heavily against crate gambling and as such, do not bother at all, and just keep saving my endeavours and see what I can buy with them instead. If this was changed to just be a rotation of items *you could buy individually*, I'd be more inclined to put a bit of money down on them.

Ideally in a perfect world, the In-Game rewards would be a little better and perhaps include a cool mount or a customizable action or something here and there, but even just a step away from the crates altogether would be right enough.

Nihilr · January 4

To be fair on ZoS, they have been adding more things to the crown store for direct purchase in the last few months.

VoidCommander · January 4

Honestly if ESO did away with the loot crates, it would easily wipe the floor of any and all competition in the MMO sphere. It is the biggest single "feature" that is holding it back from the title of undisputed best fantasy MMO out there.

WitchyKiki · January 5

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

We should be able to buy anything that appears in crown crates directly with crowns. Or, ZOS should increase drop rates of decent items in crates by at least a factor of 10. RNG is so low for something decent from crown crates it defeats the purpose of ever buying crates in the first place.

I think a good middle ground would be to make the items directly purchasable from crates, a higher price. And the crates maintain their price tag. So you can either gamble on crates or go ahead and purchase what you want for more.

Dagoth_Rac · January 5

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Nightowl_74 · January 5

I get one fifteen hundred crown set of crates with every new season, so I'm not against them, per se. But, I do think ESO is extremely lacking in the in-game rewards department and increasing those by a very large amount would only encourage subs and dedicated players in general. Aside from houses, which I do purchase here and there, there are very few item in the cash shop that I'd personally care to straight out buy. However, if the crates went away I wouldn't mourn them.

Pixiepumpkin · January 5

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Araneae6537 · January 5

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

Pixiepumpkin · January 6

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

ZOS can not know that. They can not record data of people that WOULD spend money on crowns if crowns were less expensive.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

WitchyKiki · January 8

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Thats pure speculation and we really wouldn't know unless it was put to the test. I don't believe in what-ifs. I had mentioned earlier that we could keep the crates, but allow us to purchase items directly for a higher price as well. More options for people to spend money on. All I know is, I haven't bought crowns in 3 years and a change of direction on the store would entice me to spend money.

Araneae6537 · January 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

ZOS can not know that. They can not record data of people that WOULD spend money on crowns if crowns were less expensive.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

But they have the data of what the average player spent before Crown crates were introduced, don’t they? I’m not arguing in favor of Crown crates — I much rather buy things directly — but I think it a mistake to suppose them less profitable.

Pixiepumpkin · January 9

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

ZOS can not know that. They can not record data of people that WOULD spend money on crowns if crowns were less expensive.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

But they have the data of what the average player spent before Crown crates were introduced, don’t they? I’m not arguing in favor of Crown crates — I much rather buy things directly — but I think it a mistake to suppose them less profitable.

Irrelevant data because economies chance, player bases change, the mass introduction of items since that era has changed, the entire dynamic of what it means to be a modern customer has changed.

The ONLY way that NOT lowering prices would yield less revenue, is if the player base is not as large as Zenimax promotes.

CrazyKitty · January 9

I'd like to see the laws changed in the US to be like they are in some other countries that bans gambling online and in video games. Gambling is especially concerning in games that allow minors, as ESO does.

Either that or mandate that anything that can be found in gambling crates must also be available for direct purchase.

Either way would stop the predatory nature of the gambling crates.

Dagoth_Rac · January 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

ZOS can not know that. They can not record data of people that WOULD spend money on crowns if crowns were less expensive.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

But they have the data of what the average player spent before Crown crates were introduced, don’t they? I’m not arguing in favor of Crown crates — I much rather buy things directly — but I think it a mistake to suppose them less profitable.

Irrelevant data because economies chance, player bases change, the mass introduction of items since that era has changed, the entire dynamic of what it means to be a modern customer has changed.

The ONLY way that NOT lowering prices would yield less revenue, is if the player base is not as large as Zenimax promotes.

Huh? Are you saying that lowering prices means more revenue? That's not true. Pricing is only half of the revenue formula. Pricing is about finding a sweet spot. If you sell 1,000,000 units at $10, your revenue is $10,000,000. If you lower price to $8 and sell 1,200,000 units, you have raised unit sales by 200,000 but lowered revenue by $400,000. If you raise price to $12 and sell 800,000 units, you have reduced unit sales by 200,000 and ... still lowered revenue by $400,000.

Lowering prices all but guarantees more unit sales. But it is not guaranteed at all to raise revenue.

Pixiepumpkin · January 10

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

"If you stopped the crates Id spend money on crowns"

But would it make up for the money lost to players who buy lots of crates? If 100 players spend $50 each to directly purchase a mount after crates are stopped, but 10 players would have spent $1200 each in crates chasing that mount, it is a net loss for ZOS. They gained $5,000 in direct sales but lost $12,000 in crate sales. The executives will be furious that revenue has collapsed with the end of crown crates.

You, individually, may be spending more money. But they care about the gross spending of the entire player population, not individuals. They are not trying to make the most money out of you. They are trying to make the most money. Period.

Crates don't have to be popular. They can be despised by the vast majority of players. But if the minority of players who like them spend a lot on them, they have outvoted us with their wallets.

Or they lower the price to 25 dollars for the mount and 1000 players buy it doubling their income. According to ZOS, a million+ people play the game. 1000 is a drop in the bucket.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

Only ZOS knows that, and we can be certain they wouldn’t knowingly leave money on the table. I think you must underestimate how much many how many people spend on Crown crates.

ZOS can not know that. They can not record data of people that WOULD spend money on crowns if crowns were less expensive.

I can tell you as an absolute, ZOS is leaving money on the table.

But they have the data of what the average player spent before Crown crates were introduced, don’t they? I’m not arguing in favor of Crown crates — I much rather buy things directly — but I think it a mistake to suppose them less profitable.

Irrelevant data because economies chance, player bases change, the mass introduction of items since that era has changed, the entire dynamic of what it means to be a modern customer has changed.

The ONLY way that NOT lowering prices would yield less revenue, is if the player base is not as large as Zenimax promotes.

Huh? Are you saying that lowering prices means more revenue? That's not true. Pricing is only half of the revenue formula. Pricing is about finding a sweet spot. If you sell 1,000,000 units at $10, your revenue is $10,000,000. If you lower price to $8 and sell 1,200,000 units, you have raised unit sales by 200,000 but lowered revenue by $400,000. If you raise price to $12 and sell 800,000 units, you have reduced unit sales by 200,000 and ... still lowered revenue by $400,000.

Lowering prices all but guarantees more unit sales. But it is not guaranteed at all to raise revenue.

Only if the target audience is small. Walmart is the largest retailer in the world, and they did so by selling items at rock bottom prices, but to a large audience.

Per the Devs, ESO has a massive player base, yet what we see being developed for the game errors towards the smaller scale Vs ESOs mmorpg contemporaries.

So if zenimax feels infinitely spawnable digital items must be priced at the prices they are to maintain a target revenue, then that means the audience is small.

If wow can make more money, create larger expansions and multiple updates during that expansion with a larger employee count on a paltry 15 a month (where in game gold can even pay for your playtime, even ESO+ can't do this) then it's reasonable to say that the ESO player base is much much smaller in comparison, which 8s in contrast to what we are told.

IgnisDrakkon · January 10

I totally agree with the original post. I think loot crates are unethical, and will eventually be strictly regulated in many countries (like the recent rules in China in December of last year). I wish Zos just put all the items in the crown store for crowns, even if it means they charge slightly more crowns for each item.

Imagine how awesome and varied the items would be if they removed them from the crates and placed them in the crown store for direct purchase instead. Right now it's pretty obvious most items are in the crates and without the crates there are actually very few interesting items in the crown store.

Zos can even rotate the items in and out of the store to keep players regularly logging in to check.