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Faction Lock spits on the One Tamriel update and the social nature of MMOs
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GooGa592✭✭✭✭✭
✭The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:40PM6 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
What the person you're replying to means is that there's nothing equalizing the populations. There's nothing keeping (for example) Red being pop locked 24/7 while blue and yellow can't get above 2 bars.
A competitive PvP environment would have a dynamic pop-lock where no 1 faction can get far above another factions population.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:41PM1 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
Thank you for your understanding.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:42PM1 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:44PM7 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
You're both talking about different things.
Faction lock does nothing to ensure that alliances have an equal population. You could have an entire week where AD is outnumbered every day. That is not a competitive environment.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:45PM3 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
You're both talking about different things.
Faction lock does nothing to ensure that alliances have an equal population. You could have an entire week where AD is outnumbered every day. That is not a competitive environment.
yeah i would agree with this, faction lock does not affect population
population imbalance is a completely separate problem
i think the way planetside 2 handles a 3 faction combat system to be ideal, they implement "faction balance queues" if one factions population is too much higher than other factions, which incentivizes those players to join another faction instead of waiting on a longer queue
faction lock is actively preventing something like that from being able to happen, if a player cant swap factions when their faction is already overpopped compared to others, thats why it ends up becoming worse of a population balance
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:45PMplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Freilauftomate✭✭✭✭Make 2 more accounts and you can play with all your friends. It's like buying multiple houses for living with different wifes. But remember, you can't dance at two weddings at the same time...
Seriously, if you don't like to choose, play on Blackreach. But i guess it's empty on your platform too. I wonder why...3 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
You're both talking about different things.
Faction lock does nothing to ensure that alliances have an equal population. You could have an entire week where AD is outnumbered every day. That is not a competitive environment.
What part of ESO is more competitive than PvP?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:46PM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
Of course, faction lock prevents players from swapping factions during the campaign just as it is unmistakable it is a team vs team design.
and I understand many feel Cyrodiil is competitive as it is designed to give that appearance since it does have a scoring system. However, history demonstrates how far Cyrodiil is off of being truly competitive.
Originally Cyrodiil granted buffs that increased DPS and carried over to PvE. Each faction had its own "buff" campaign with each controlling its own maps most of the time. Yes, there was a faction lock back then yet through some sort of agreement they permitted it. demonstrates how far from the mark Cyrodiil is from being a design that is truly competitive.
But again, I understand it feels competitive as it is intended to be so.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:47PM0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭As much as I don't play the map objectives when not in a guild group, I do not miss cross faction trolls swapping to pull their friends into unflagged keeps to take the keep, farm with their current faction's scroll(s) or just flat out dunk them in the water because they think it is funny. Not a big fan of that kind of behavior. Faction lock is one of the few things ZOS has done right imo.
Blackreach, you do actually still see cross faction people logging into 2 different factions and kill a single person or group from 3rd faction they have grudges on over and over again to fan the flame in that said 3rd faction. Don't miss that either.
I am all for fun, but if that is generated from toxic behavior... eeeeh... count me out.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
Of course, faction lock prevents players from swapping factions during the campaign just as it is unmistakable it is a team vs team design.
and I understand many feel Cyrodiil is competitive as it is designed to give that appearance since it does have a scoring system. However, history demonstrates how far Cyrodiil is off of being truly competitive.
Originally Cyrodiil granted buffs that increased DPS and carried over to PvE. Each faction had its own "buff" campaign with each controlling its own maps most of the time. Yes, there was a faction lock back then yet through some sort of agreement they permitted it. demonstrates how far from the mark Cyrodiil is from being a design that is truly competitive.
But again, I understand it feels competitive as it is intended to be so.
Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/aspect in ESO. As the other poster asked, what part of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP? Why are you even trying to argue this point?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:48PM2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
Of course, faction lock prevents players from swapping factions during the campaign just as it is unmistakable it is a team vs team design.
and I understand many feel Cyrodiil is competitive as it is designed to give that appearance since it does have a scoring system. However, history demonstrates how far Cyrodiil is off of being truly competitive.
Originally Cyrodiil granted buffs that increased DPS and carried over to PvE. Each faction had its own "buff" campaign with each controlling its own maps most of the time. Yes, there was a faction lock back then yet through some sort of agreement they permitted it. demonstrates how far from the mark Cyrodiil is from being a design that is truly competitive.
But again, I understand it feels competitive as it is intended to be so.
Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/aspect in ESO. As the other poster asked, what part of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP? Why are you even trying to argue this point?
Oh, yes, the zone does have competitive aspects such as when two groups are opposing each other to take and defend a keep. It can be a fun fight. I also noted that it is designed to feel competitive.
However, in the context of what is truly competitive PvP and I provided a clear example that firmly proves it is not competitive.
Adding to what I pointed out before, if Cyrodiil was designed to be a truly competitive PvP a group of six players would not be able to go into Cyrodiil, an area designed for somewhere around 80 players (not sure of the pop cap), and take most of the keeps without a challenge. Currently, that happens numerous times a week because the zone does nothing to keep the population's balance outside of reaching the pop cap which only happens in one campaign. Because that happens the campaign scores do not represent skill of the team by any measure.
Competitive PvP is designed to have a balanced number of players on each team so that when one team wins they prove themselves to be the better team. It has meaning. All eSport PvP is of this format because it requires the PvP to be competitive by design. Cyrodiil could never be considered for eSport because it lacks such balance between teams.
This is not a flaw with ESO as it is reflective of AvA/WvW/RvR open-world PvP such as this.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:49PM0 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
Of course, faction lock prevents players from swapping factions during the campaign just as it is unmistakable it is a team vs team design.
and I understand many feel Cyrodiil is competitive as it is designed to give that appearance since it does have a scoring system. However, history demonstrates how far Cyrodiil is off of being truly competitive.
Originally Cyrodiil granted buffs that increased DPS and carried over to PvE. Each faction had its own "buff" campaign with each controlling its own maps most of the time. Yes, there was a faction lock back then yet through some sort of agreement they permitted it. demonstrates how far from the mark Cyrodiil is from being a design that is truly competitive.
But again, I understand it feels competitive as it is intended to be so.
Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/aspect in ESO. As the other poster asked, what part of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP? Why are you even trying to argue this point?
Oh, yes, the zone does have competitive aspects such as when two groups are opposing each other to take and defend a keep. It can be a fun fight. I also noted that it is designed to feel competitive.
However, in the context of what is truly competitive PvP and I provided a clear example that firmly proves it is not competitive.
Adding to what I pointed out before, if Cyrodiil was designed to be a truly competitive PvP a group of six players would not be able to go into Cyrodiil, an area designed for somewhere around 80 players (not sure of the pop cap), and take most of the keeps without a challenge. Currently, that happens numerous times a week because the zone does nothing to keep the population's balance outside of reaching the pop cap which only happens in one campaign. Because that happens the campaign scores do not represent skill of the team by any measure.
Competitive PvP is designed to have a balanced number of players on each team so that when one team wins they prove themselves to be the better team. It has meaning. All eSport PvP is of this format because it requires the PvP to be competitive by design. Cyrodiil could never be considered for eSport because it lacks such balance between teams.
This is not a flaw with ESO as it is reflective of AvA/WvW/RvR open-world PvP such as this.
What part/zone of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 16, 2023 7:49PM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
[snip]
@reazea
Wow. That is interesting as I do participate in ESO Cyrodiil. Please link the three posts.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
My comment was extremely accurate. Since the population is not controlled, and there is no balance between the three alliances, it is not considered competitive PvP. Yes, it is designed to appear competitive but since one team winning has more to do with how active they were across the entire 24/7 vs how good they are it is not truly competitive.
[snip]The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Yeah, I do PvP in other games and I prefer their overall PvP design. It is the group of people I run with in ESO Cyrodiil/sometimes BGs and the combat design that I enjoy about ESO.
There are other players that play ESO and play other games and our comments are just as valid as anyone that plays ESO exclusively.
It's a violation of the TOS to be logged on to multiple accounts at the same time in ESO if the player is doing so with the purpose of undermining or tracking what the other factions are saying in chat or similar behavior. (ask one of the faction swapping zerg lords if you don't believe that to be true. Not allowed to say his name, but anyone who's a Cyrodiil regular knows exactly who I'm talking about)The funny thing is that Cyrodiil is not designed to be competitive PvP. The score does not mean one alliance was actually better than the others but that one team happened to be more active at the right times. Nothing balances teams which is not feasible to do with this type of PvP.
Even beyond that, many players have multiple accounts, and per Zenimax, it is acceptable to be logged into multiple accounts simultaneously. This is via multi-boxing even on the same machine as long as the player controls movement and combat.
Then we have that no all campaigns are locked which demonstrates Zenimax has not seen a systemic problem with campaigns that are not faction-locked.
Hence, faction locks serve no useful purpose.
Players do it all the time. Sure, some players go to an extreme and are disruptive and that creates a completely different issue. The person who shall not be named was along those lines.
Thank you for your reply.
Doesn't faction lock mean the population is controlled and stabilized?
Things feel pretty competitive when I'm in Cyrodiil. Are you playing the same game the rest of us are?
Faction lock does nothing to control the population. When we fan see one faction has more bars than the others that is a clear demonstration that there is nothing controlling the balance of players on the field.
And yes, I had noted it is designed to feel competitive as it even has a leaderboard but none of that indicates a player or faction is better skilled. It just shows who had the most active playtime.
DAoC RvR (which the Cyrodiil design is based on for obvious reasons) and GW2 WvW is the same. One team can have significantly more players on the maps than the other two creating a clear imbalance and leading to that team garnering more points.
They are fun and feel very much competitive but the scores at the end of the matches do not mean much.
Of course faction lock acts to control players from swapping factions mid campaign.
Cyrodiil is designed to be a "team" effort over 30 days. So the leader board absolutely is a measure of which faction is putting in the most effort over those 30 days. Cyrodiil doesn't just feel competitive, it is competitive. Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/mode in ESO. Nobody min/maxes more than hardcore PvP players. And PvP is without rational argument the most competitive aspect of ESO.
Of course, faction lock prevents players from swapping factions during the campaign just as it is unmistakable it is a team vs team design.
and I understand many feel Cyrodiil is competitive as it is designed to give that appearance since it does have a scoring system. However, history demonstrates how far Cyrodiil is off of being truly competitive.
Originally Cyrodiil granted buffs that increased DPS and carried over to PvE. Each faction had its own "buff" campaign with each controlling its own maps most of the time. Yes, there was a faction lock back then yet through some sort of agreement they permitted it. demonstrates how far from the mark Cyrodiil is from being a design that is truly competitive.
But again, I understand it feels competitive as it is intended to be so.
Cyrodiil is the most competitive zone/aspect in ESO. As the other poster asked, what part of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP? Why are you even trying to argue this point?
Oh, yes, the zone does have competitive aspects such as when two groups are opposing each other to take and defend a keep. It can be a fun fight. I also noted that it is designed to feel competitive.
However, in the context of what is truly competitive PvP and I provided a clear example that firmly proves it is not competitive.
Adding to what I pointed out before, if Cyrodiil was designed to be a truly competitive PvP a group of six players would not be able to go into Cyrodiil, an area designed for somewhere around 80 players (not sure of the pop cap), and take most of the keeps without a challenge. Currently, that happens numerous times a week because the zone does nothing to keep the population's balance outside of reaching the pop cap which only happens in one campaign. Because that happens the campaign scores do not represent skill of the team by any measure.
Competitive PvP is designed to have a balanced number of players on each team so that when one team wins they prove themselves to be the better team. It has meaning. All eSport PvP is of this format because it requires the PvP to be competitive by design. Cyrodiil could never be considered for eSport because it lacks such balance between teams.
This is not a flaw with ESO as it is reflective of AvA/WvW/RvR open-world PvP such as this.
What part/zone of ESO is more competitive than Cyrodiil PvP?
[edited to remove quote]
BGs are designed to be competitive as they are designed to have even numbers on their team. Granted, players may drop and sometimes the system messes up but it is what has been designed to be competitive. BGs are more in line with PvP modes. Hands down it is more competitive though I would prefer a XvX design instead of a three-team format but that is a preference.
Even more than just balanced teams, player skill has a more significant impact in BGs because there are smaller numbers. When 10-20 players are fighting and especially when using machines to do the fighting for them a lesser skilled player can have a good time without being pawned. Hopping on seige to fight other players does not take skill which is a big impact on why Cyrodiil type of PvP is not considered competitive.
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Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.Edited by Stamicka on December 17, 2023 4:28PMPC NA and Xbox NA2 -
GooGa592✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.6 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
[Snip]. First off, people come back from breaks all the time and lock to a faction before you can coordinate things. I quit for months frequently myself, then I come back to the game and most of my characters aren't on the right alliance. At that point you have to wait till the end of the month and you might already want to quit again by then.
It is also very likely that friend group A wants to play yellow, but friend group B wants to play blue. I could be the common thread between those friends groups, maybe I'm the only person who knows both groups. How would that work? It's not like friend group B will come to yellow just cause it works better for me and my friend group that they don't know.
[Edited for minor bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 20, 2023 2:33PMPC NA and Xbox NA1 -
DizzyMac✭✭✭Do you know why Grayhost is so popular? Its not because its at the top of the list.....
Its because people want to play to win the campaign.
Being alliance locked means that we dont have to deal with players who do the "oh the map is all yellow now. i'll swap to my DC toon so we can turn it blue and get a heap of AP".. It stops the zone chat snippers, who dont like that their main alliance is losing ground, from sitting in an alliance and feeding info to their friends in their main alliance. its about being loyal for 1 MONTH, not jumping from one to another every hour .
Its designed to be a war. i wonder what it would look like if people could switch sides whenever they want in a real war3 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok, for all the people who have an issue with removing the alliance lock, I propose a solution. The devs should introduce a 4th "alliance" but it doesn't work like a regular alliance, your only allies will be those you are grouped with. People in this unaffiliated "alliance" group can't take keeps or anything, but everyone except their group mates will be enemies. It just exists for those players who go into PvP to actually kill others.
PC NA and Xbox NA2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, for all the people who have an issue with removing the alliance lock, I propose a solution. The devs should introduce a 4th "alliance" but it doesn't work like a regular alliance, your only allies will be those you are grouped with. People in this unaffiliated "alliance" group can't take keeps or anything, but everyone except their group mates will be enemies. It just exists for those players who go into PvP to actually kill others.
I do not think those who like faction lock or those who do not like faction lock are discussing wanting something where everyone who is not in their group is an enemy. That would not solve anything.
1 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok, for all the people who have an issue with removing the alliance lock, I propose a solution. The devs should introduce a 4th "alliance" but it doesn't work like a regular alliance, your only allies will be those you are grouped with. People in this unaffiliated "alliance" group can't take keeps or anything, but everyone except their group mates will be enemies. It just exists for those players who go into PvP to actually kill others.
I do not think those who like faction lock or those who do not like faction lock are discussing wanting something where everyone who is not in their group is an enemy. That would not solve anything.
It actually is a solution [Snip]
I don’t care about my alliance. I’ve never cared about my alliance. I don’t care about keeps, scrolls, the score at the end of a campaign, or anything related to the alliance war. All of those things serve as ways to attract opposing alliance members to a location so that some actual fun happens.
When I go into PvP I only care that I have people to fight and that the game works and I have a good time. This is the mentality behind many smallscalers and others who support removing the alliance lock. This is why it would solve the problem. The campaign can stay alliance locked, but if I’m able to log into any character I have and group with friends as part of an unaffiliated “alliance” both groups are getting what they want. At the end of the day the people who are against the alliance lock are literally just trying to PvP with friends, that’s the core issue. Obviously as evidenced by this thread there’s people who care a lot about their alliance, it’s a way different mentality when compared to smallscalers who just like to kill people with their friends.
[Edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 20, 2023 2:34PMPC NA and Xbox NA1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
Except no, you can't just switch alliances for free. Switching alliances is a paid crown store item.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, for all the people who have an issue with removing the alliance lock, I propose a solution. The devs should introduce a 4th "alliance" but it doesn't work like a regular alliance, your only allies will be those you are grouped with. People in this unaffiliated "alliance" group can't take keeps or anything, but everyone except their group mates will be enemies. It just exists for those players who go into PvP to actually kill others.
I do not think those who like faction lock or those who do not like faction lock are discussing wanting something where everyone who is not in their group is an enemy. That would not solve anything.
It actually is a solution [Snip].
I don’t care about my alliance. I’ve never cared about my alliance. I don’t care about keeps, scrolls, the score at the end of a campaign, or anything related to the alliance war. All of those things serve as ways to attract opposing alliance members to a location so that some actual fun happens.
When I go into PvP I only care that I have people to fight and that the game works and I have a good time. This is the mentality behind many smallscalers and others who support removing the alliance lock. This is why it would solve the problem. The campaign can stay alliance locked, but if I’m able to log into any character I have and group with friends as part of an unaffiliated “alliance” both groups are getting what they want. At the end of the day the people who are against the alliance lock are literally just trying to PvP with friends, that’s the core issue. Obviously as evidenced by this thread there’s people who care a lot about their alliance, it’s a way different mentality when compared to smallscalers who just like to kill people with their friends.
I understood it very well. It is not what either side in this discussion is discussing which is why it would not solve what they are talking about.
One reason it is not a solution is one is still faction-locked. They are locked into this FFA PvP faction.
It is also not a good option for Cyrodiil as that zone is designed for a more robust PvP vs just death matching. For that reason along it will not happen.
[Edited quote]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on December 20, 2023 2:36PM0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here to say camera is on the moneyPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
Except no, you can't just switch alliances for free. Switching alliances is a paid crown store item.
You can swap factions for free at the end of the campaign. Or at least you could when I swapped factions about 9 months ago.1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
Except no, you can't just switch alliances for free. Switching alliances is a paid crown store item.
You can swap factions for free at the end of the campaign. Or at least you could when I swapped factions about 9 months ago.
And it should still be the case.
Best to make sure the character is not left inside the campaign at the end to make sure one is not committed to the same faction for the new campaign. Not sure if a failsafe was added but have seen people get stuck with the same faction because they left a character in the campaign like that.
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
Except no, you can't just switch alliances for free. Switching alliances is a paid crown store item.
You can swap factions for free at the end of the campaign. Or at least you could when I swapped factions about 9 months ago.
And it should still be the case.
Best to make sure the character is not left inside the campaign at the end to make sure one is not committed to the same faction for the new campaign. Not sure if a failsafe was added but have seen people get stuck with the same faction because they left a character in the campaign like that.
You can change the faction that the campaign is locked to for free at the end of a campaign. You cannot change factions for free. Changing what the campaign is locked to doesn't solve the problem of not being able to play with half your friends in the only populated campaign for 30 days at a time.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Good post I completely agree. Let's face it, not many PvPers play this game anymore. Blackreach is dead for the vast majority of the day. On weekdays I've seen it never get more than 1 bar of population for each faction. In the past, people would go to the other campaign to escape the lag back when Cyrodiil couldn't handle being pop locked while still performing well. Now that we get much better performance during pop lock, people hardly touch Blackreach.
If you want to play with friends in the only consistently populated campaign, you have to hope they didn't lock to one of the other alliances. This is rarely the case, especially if you have multiple friend groups. I've been in this situation and it sucks, I was literally unable to PvP with my friends because Grey Host was faction locked, Imperial City was always dead, Blackreach was always dead, and BG queues never popped (and we don't like non deathmatch modes anyway).
Remove the faction lock.
If they're your friends it shouldn't be hard to coordinate which faction ya'll are going to play for. Everyone can switch factions at the end of the campaign for free.
Except no, you can't just switch alliances for free. Switching alliances is a paid crown store item.
You can swap factions for free at the end of the campaign. Or at least you could when I swapped factions about 9 months ago.
And it should still be the case.
Best to make sure the character is not left inside the campaign at the end to make sure one is not committed to the same faction for the new campaign. Not sure if a failsafe was added but have seen people get stuck with the same faction because they left a character in the campaign like that.
You can change the faction that the campaign is locked to for free at the end of a campaign. You cannot change factions for free. Changing what the campaign is locked to doesn't solve the problem of not being able to play with half your friends in the only populated campaign for 30 days at a time.
@CameraBeardThePirate
You are correct. I had only read the post I quoted and did not read the earlier posts in the conversation.
It is clear now that you were speaking of changing the faction of a character vs changing what faction the account was locked to for the campaign.
I readily admit my error.
However, it seems the earlier post spoke to coordinating among friends and assuming having characters in different alliances. Heck, while most of my characters are on one alliance, I do have a couple in a different alliance that I pretty much never play.
In the end, I think each of us spoke to the issue from a different angle. You are correct and @CrazyKitty is also correct from the point they were making.
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WaywardArgonian✭✭✭✭✭I don't care for faction lock but at the very least the presence of one faction-locked campaign is a counter-argument against those who wish to apply this lock to every campaign - they already have a place to go and it's Gray Host.
Still, I do see how it seems to go against the rest of the game's design and I wouldn't miss it if I was gone. I mostly play a campaign without faction lock (Ravenwatch PC/EU) and apart from the occasional scroll troll incident it doesn't carry any negative effects. I'm sure you can find a few campaign-obsessed zone chat generals who'd be eager to tell you that crossplay is a crime against humanity, but they have an unhealthy mentality towards PVP in general and should be ignored.PC/EU altaholic | #1 PVP support player (contested) | @ degonyte in-game | Nibani Ilath-Pal (AD Nightblade) - AvA rank 50 | Jehanne Teymour (AD Sorcerer) - AvA rank 50 | Niria Ilath-Pal (AD Templar) - AvA rank 503