What is basic role combination 12men trial?

AvalonRanger · December 2023

What is the basic role combination 12men trial?

I'm CP2000 trial beginner actually. Just teach me basic trial role combination,
if you're experienced player.
(But have Vet dungeon experience many times as both tank and healer)

I tested 4 normal trial already as healer. (Failed DreadSail though)
According my experience, 2tank-2healer-8DD looks like proper combination.
... Am I correct?

fizl101 · December 2023

more or less, some trials only need 1 tank (especially on normal), and cloudrest can need 3 if going for a veteran + number. You can add or remove dd to compensate for the differing tank number

Braffin · December 2023

Yes, you are correct. That's the usual and most basic combination.

That said, the second tank often also has access to some dps-equipment, so they aren't useless if a second tank isn't needed for an encounter. That depends on trial and the group tho.

AvalonRanger · December 2023

By the way...
I have my good tough tank. But I can't go trial as tank.
Because I don't know most of the trial mech.

Braffin · December 2023

If you just started doing trials, I highly recommend to join a guild which offers "training runs". Mechanics are usually explained there and people don't mind dying a few times because the tank is still learning.

We all started at that point some day.

AvalonRanger · December 2023

Braffin wrote: »

If you just started doing trials, I highly recommend to join a guild which offers "training runs". Mechanics are usually explained there and people don't mind dying a few times because the tank is still learning.

We all started at that point some day.

My first trial experience was Claudrest, and terrible experience.
I was tough real tank, but don't know the mech, especially shadow gate of the last boss.
CP700 unreliable sub-tank escape from the team. So, every DD in the shadow world
wiped because of that (I was doing main tank for the boss). Every people blame me by those
unreasonable failure.

So, I keep to stay away from it enough long time.
Now, I have "group finder". It's a revenge time.

Braffin · December 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

If you just started doing trials, I highly recommend to join a guild which offers "training runs". Mechanics are usually explained there and people don't mind dying a few times because the tank is still learning.

We all started at that point some day.

My first trial experience was Claudrest, and terrible experience.
I was tough real tank, but don't know the mech, especially shadow gate of the last boss.
CP700 unreliable sub-tank escape from the team. So, every DD in the shadow world
wiped because of that (I was doing main tank for the boss). Every people blame me by those
unreasonable failure.

So, I keep to stay away from it enough long time.
Now, I have "group finder". It's a revenge time.

I can't say how things play out since group finder was introduced. But in general I have the impression, that most players, which are trying to get into raiding and made bad experiences with their group, tried with pugging.

Pugs are mostly a combination of experienced players, which are intending to do a quick run in between, and people, which refuse to join guilds and fixed groups out of various reasons. It's an unfortunate fact, that this environment produces far more toxicity than you'll ever witness in a stable group, which is playing together on a regular base.

That said, it's of course possible to do it "the hard way" and learn trial mechanics solely by pugging. It's important then to tell said group, that you don't know the mechanics yet, so everyone knows what sort of run they have to expect.

Also be realistic: Even the very best and experienced endgame tanks wipe whole groups regularily if they learn new mechanics, try out new builds and so on. That's part of the game (and in a good team also part of the fun).

Finally, some sort of "thick skin" may be adviseable if you're learning through pugging. As said, it's unfortunate, but we aren't able to change that.

boi_anachronism_ · December 2023

Braffin wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

If you just started doing trials, I highly recommend to join a guild which offers "training runs". Mechanics are usually explained there and people don't mind dying a few times because the tank is still learning.

We all started at that point some day.

My first trial experience was Claudrest, and terrible experience.
I was tough real tank, but don't know the mech, especially shadow gate of the last boss.
CP700 unreliable sub-tank escape from the team. So, every DD in the shadow world
wiped because of that (I was doing main tank for the boss). Every people blame me by those
unreasonable failure.

So, I keep to stay away from it enough long time.
Now, I have "group finder". It's a revenge time.

I can't say how things play out since group finder was introduced. But in general I have the impression, that most players, which are trying to get into raiding and made bad experiences with their group, tried with pugging.

Pugs are mostly a combination of experienced players, which are intending to do a quick run in between, and people, which refuse to join guilds and fixed groups out of various reasons. It's an unfortunate fact, that this environment produces far more toxicity than you'll ever witness in a stable group, which is playing together on a regular base.

That said, it's of course possible to do it "the hard way" and learn trial mechanics solely by pugging. It's important then to tell said group, that you don't know the mechanics yet, so everyone knows what sort of run they have to expect.

Also be realistic: Even the very best and experienced endgame tanks wipe whole groups regularily if they learn new mechanics, try out new builds and so on. That's part of the game (and in a good team also part of the fun).

Finally, some sort of "thick skin" may be adviseable if you're learning through pugging. As said, it's unfortunate, but we aren't able to change that.

This is true lol our tank for vrg hm wiped the whole team last night. No one was mad, it happens. There is a learning curve not just for basic tanking skills but for the mechanics of the fight overall as you said.

And yeah for puggin a thick skin is kinda requred unfortunately.

boi_anachronism_ · December 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

If you just started doing trials, I highly recommend to join a guild which offers "training runs". Mechanics are usually explained there and people don't mind dying a few times because the tank is still learning.

We all started at that point some day.

My first trial experience was Claudrest, and terrible experience.
I was tough real tank, but don't know the mech, especially shadow gate of the last boss.
CP700 unreliable sub-tank escape from the team. So, every DD in the shadow world
wiped because of that (I was doing main tank for the boss). Every people blame me by those
unreasonable failure.

So, I keep to stay away from it enough long time.
Now, I have "group finder". It's a revenge time.

Oh btw im saying this as a pretty experienced dugeon tank but a new trial tank.

Find a guild that will help you. Idk what server you are on but if its ps/na i can recommend a fantastic one that takes folks, tanks included from new to experienced and they are very patient as well as full of experienced player who give valuable feedback. Ive helped out as a very experienced dps in many of their trials. Its very learning friendly environment.

On a separate note i will share my first experience tanking a trial:

My endgame guild was farming vrg for gear and one of the tanks volunteered me to main tank. I hadnt even tanked a helra. At my level they were like up we are throwing you into the deep end- sink or swim 😆 (they wouldnt do this to newbies, just me) i was very hard on myself at the time but looking back i only had one death on ox, one on bahsei... then i hit Xalvakka. She wasnt kidding when she said the might of Xalvakka overwhelmes you cause holy moly did it ever. My little potato tank got fried. I say that because i affectionately named him taunts-with-potatoes lol Thankfully i had a brilliant ot who was very supportive of me getting out of my confort zone and just picked up the boss instantly when i went down. I just got back up and tried again. Thats all you can really do.

My advice to you in the meantime is this: go tank olms. Go into vas2. Minis are at a percentage so you can take all the time you need. Just practice until you can do it consistently for like 10mins. Watch the mechs, learn to anticipate, figure out when to regain resources and when to drop your debuffs. It really will help. Best of luck.